So it's a perfect reason to change them till they are viable.

lol, I don't know how you could have had a single win with DA if you've been investing in critical strike.  Even if you had 350 attack in the end game, crit strike is still currently worse than Oak's Soul Power without spirits.  Do you use Soul Power in an assassin Oak build too?  

@ ddd888

Instead of just saying the "tweaks are crap", how about suggesting some tweaks urself? Uve done nothing so far to help the growth process of this demigod.

ive tested these many times, have u even bothered to download it yet?

the tweaks here is what ive personally found to bring DA up to standard but to fit his role of being the "assassin" character without being OP.

and btw, my tweaks are aimed at catering for both short and long games...

I'd say tweaking crit chance by maybe 5% will make the skill worth taking.  Hell its worth taking untweaked.   But 2x, that seams too much.  That's no longer AA, thats burst damage, when you have it proc 30% of the time.  If people want to spec for crit they can fork out the gold.  And we all know they do.  Lets put a dollar value on it and do some math:

Duelist's Cuirass:  3000 gold,  5% chance to do 1.5x,  average =  (0.05 * 1.5)[crit proc x chance]  + 0.95 [normal attack proc chance * 1.0] = 1.025x

Slayers's Wraps: 3300 gold,  10% chance to do 2x,  average = (0.1 * 2) + 0.9 = 1.1

Ashkandor: 18000 gold, 10% chance to do 4x (!!), average = (0.1 x 4) + 0.9 = 1.3

Average damage bonus for all of the above = (0.05 x 1.5 + 0.1 x 2 + 0.1 x 4) + (1 - 0.05 - 0.1 - 0.1)  = 1.425

The math involved is (crit chance x crit damage bonus) + (1 - crit chance).  The second term is the chance of a non-crit hit.

(I am assuming crit chances dont clobber each other, ie if you have 5% + 10% + 10% then you have 25% chance of a crit.)

Back to our gold. thats 24300 gold for  42.5% more damage on average,  ignoring other effects.  (of course for those of us for who Ashkandor procs for 1500+ damage know the real value lies in the insane burst damage)

Now for precision 4, 2x at 25% thats (0.25 x 2) + 0.75 = 1.25.  Dollar value based on the above?  1.25/1.425 x 24300 = 21315 gold. FOR FREE.  That's INSANE.  Of course the real value of a crit is bursting someone down just before he runs out of range, netting you a windfall from a kill, instead of him getting away.  Or its the difference between him pulling of a shield / stun or teleporting, quaffing that potion with just a sliver of health left, and dying.

Oh wait, you want 40% chance? thats (0.4 x 2) + 0.6 = 1.4x. Crazy. thats more than ashkandor, and nearly as much as everything else combined, and now you have every slot left available for +damage and crit gear!

What was the original?  10/20/30/40 at 1.5x? , well thats an average of (0.4 x 1.5) + 0.6 = 1.2.  That's not bad at all!  Worth 20463 gold in fact*. And you have 5 slots, 3 consumable slots, and a favour slot to augment that.  The difference is you dont burst for 600+, thats just insane.

I say leave crit the hell alone.

* Ashkandor is actually worth 22168 gold based on my above value calculations!.  Which i admit are iffy.  Probably should have used percentages instead of damage bonus multiplies to calculate that, (it implies normal autoattack is worth 17052) but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader

You're forgetting that ashkandor does

in addition to 10% chance to do 4x damage.  The 4x damage part is a big bonus, but without the other stats, ashkandor would be entirely worthless.  Mageslayer would be much much better.

Not only that, but you're forgetting that you currently have to spend 4 skill points for a 40% chance to do 1.5x damage.  You're math is correct about the 2x damage proposal in the 4th skill point, which is an overly steep increase from the attack bonus in the 3rd skill point.  However, as it currently is at 1.5x, and as you mentioned, 4 skill points would be only a 20% attack increase on average - absolutely worthless.  You realize that Oak at 300 damage would get an average attack increase of +25% with only 3 skill points in Soul Power, which is widely known as a crappy skill in a pure assassin build?

However crit rate is not the same as white damage. Be able to surprise your opponent in a critstring is invaluable imho.

Penetrator if u do think my precision tweak is just way to strong, think about all the disadvatanges DA has...

- Area dmg ineffectiveness
- no negative effect infliction
- high energy cost
- if he goes precision focus, it becomes a game of "chance"
- low def and low max health
- low base AA dmg
- easily countered

That being said, if im going to change precision again, im goign to just change the 2x crit at the end.

BTW, Remember the game we had last night against oo7warhammer? Well i was only doing 200-250 dmg to him witht he 2x crit.
His precision skill line is easily countered with def equips and even sludge slinger. Ooze will also drop this skill effectiveness.

I might even leave it as it is now and test it in more games.

To me, the best way to make DA much more formidable is to reduce the cooldowns, especially for spine attack.  Of course that doesnt do anything for the passives that some of you consider below par

Is the DA really that weak?  At the start of the battle, spine attack and shadow warp do  bulk damage, taking up a considerable chunk of life, but then autoattack pales in comparison, and if you get them low somehow they still have time to drink a potion.  I think we are just comparing autoattack to the initial bulk damage that spine attack does.  Demon Assassin excells at sneaking up on weak demigods and making very short work of them.  Hell, he is so hard to see on the screen, too. 

How does a pure passive DA build stack up compared to, say, AA reg build?  I dont think DA is meant to be played that way, but if your tweaks buff that aspect then I'd say nerf (maybe 10% more cooldown?)  spine attack, shadow swap, and even shadow warp because they are awesome as they stand.

Hey GK,

I think you need to test vs a wider variety of DG's.

I was using beast, but varied from my "normal" build.

Knowing once you warp strike in, you would be doing melee attacks, I opted for cheap $400 armor early, and $400 gladiator gloves to lay the damage on you.

I do think you need to build your DG according to your opponent, not smart to go melee vs beast, especially with a low health character. You probably couldave done better with spine attack, and such skillz instead of melee.

I believe DA is more effective against Erebus, especially because erebus is not particularly high health, relies on mist to escape, just build your DA for a bit more speed, then shadow swap  (2v2 /2v1 scenario's) so erebus cannot escape.

vs Oak this could be effective as many oaks shield, then run, just shadow swap him out so he cant run as fast.

Shadow swap also works after some1 teleports. If you hit shadow swap, but he is already half teleported

a: teleport will interrupt by your shadow swap   or

b: you miss the tele, but then you swap to his base, he goes back to battle of 1v1 so your temmate can finish him

Another thought,

why dont you add a buff to the 5 strike power, after they are invicible during strike, his speed increases by 5% for 10 seconds, giving chance to escape,

or add a debuff similar to oak shield, after he strike the 5 times, bite by erebus, etc is removed?  (mabey the 2nd level of the power)

ur missing that if u go passive build, u r sacrificing skill points in other burst dmg skills. so i just brought precision up to the standard of making a burst dmg build in a sense.

but atm everyone goes for burst dmg skills without really investing in the passives coz that is rlly the only thing thats going for him. i just wanted to make them a little more appealing to the player. which i believe i have with these tweaks.

u say that becoz DA deals nice burst dmg, he needs to have weak dmg... so what about the balance between all the other negatives i pointed out in my previous post?

i went melee focus coz i was testing my precision ability. it rlly doesnt seem OP after the matches i had. and yes i no i should gone burst dmg focus that match

ill see what i can do with the other abilities, coz ive asked how to add buffs onto existing skills and my idea was to add % attack speed for some time after u warp strike.

OPINION TIME

what do you think if warp strike had a X secs buff of X% attack speed?

Well, I was initially opposed, but if that uber OP Erebus can batswarm in from over 45 yards away, bite to damage + heal himself + slow you, then why the hell not?

lol.

ive just made another DA tweak adjusting the crit rate in precision and adding that attack speed buff to warp strike.

i have now made it 20/25/30/40% crit chance and 1.5x crit throughout all levels.

my added buff to warp strike does: for 6 secs (across all levels) after warping, you gain 15/20/25/30% attack speed.

ill post up download link in OP.

I didn't find the 2X crit OP when I tried DA. I focused on passives and only ability I got was spine attack. Even with poisoned dagger I found I couldn't take on UB. I could push him if he was %70-80 health and with no sigil/pot but otherwise i had to run off. Then again I haven't really played DA much so in someone elses hands may have been OP.

Reducing it back to 20/25/30/40% with 1.5x crit is then the same as the unmodded  value, isn't it? Or less now that Assassins Speed lvl15 has only %10 instead of %15 of proc.

Great mod and I can't wait till you do the same for TB

the original %'s for precision are 10/20/30/40%. So basically only the last 2 levels are the same but my main objectives was to make the earlier levels more "effective".

about the level 15 assassin speed, i reduced the proc but increased the effect coz later game ive assumed a DA to have fast attack speed.

and ty for the feedback and glad you like it.

yes ... i will be doing minor tweaks on TB next.

Can we also increase the starting health of DA, his speed and increase his mana and health regen. Because currently he as is weak as Regulus and Torchbearer but he relies on melee AA 0_o

im a bit hesitant about doing something like that coz ive figured several different build of equips and skills where he can become a deadly force and with my buff to warp strike, the higher burst dmg and faster attack rate allows him to dish out dmg fast meaning less time spent in a confrontation.

the DA dl is available for u to test

This is another 1 pointer... I dont like it. Change this to... 15% 25% 35% 45% or maybe 50%.
Doing around 250 damage at maybe level 10 this would be +19/+31/+44/+56 or +62 dmg, which is fine for a assasin. III would be around mards hammer.

its actually not another 1 pointer.

if u think about it, the benefits are huge when investing more than one point.

20% chance - 1 out of 5 hits

25% - 1 out 4 hits

30% - close to 1 in 3 hits

40% - close to 1 in 2 hits

ive tested these out many times and ud be surprised at the amount of benefit it has in each point.

yes but you get 50% of the benefit for 1 of 4 invested points.

well he has very little staying power so waiting for a crit is not goign to be a viable option. So the more often you can crit the more beneficial it will become. Once you try him out, youll know what im talking about.

Could you merge all current dg balance (DA. REG, TB, UB, SED, OAK, QOT, ROOK) into one downloadable "DG balance mod". It makes littke sense to test them separatly. It's alot easier to handle too.

Could we mabe give Demon Speed II & III a small mana-per-second bonus? +3/5 mps might be all we need. Just a straight-up 5% movement bonus isn't very useful and we would see a lot of people just getting the first point and that's it.

I know that the synergized skill of both Speed and Elusiveness is quite buff, but still... waiting to level 15 is a long time, though that is really already when DA shines.

That little amount of mps wont help him at all. There are basicly 2 build you can run right now.

a) spine/wrap with Essence of Magic and Magnus Rod, this is a burst dmg, supporter DA
crit/tank build with around 50%, 1.5x crit and wrap

I've tested the second with the new mod, and its alot more viable then before.

The key is that you dont need mana items at all, and you run around with 3 mana big mana pots, which will supply you with mana. There's only one skill the uses mana and that's wrap strike.

Items
Blood of the Fallen
Unbreakble Boots
Nimoth Chest Armor
Assasin's Footguards
Duelist's Cuirass
Namoth Ring

This is your final setup. You can use Banded, Scalemail and Scaled Helm in the beginning, maybe even a Nature's Reckoning, which is really good dps and aoe damage.

With this you will have 6500 health 25% dodge 35% arm and enough mana for 2-3 wraps, which is the only mana skill you use, or maybe you want to put a point into Swap.