[MOD] Balance for items 0.3 (beta - need feedback)

morpheas768

Join Date 06/2009

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[MOD] Balance for items 0.3 (beta - need feedback)

need feedback

So i was thinking i could start a thread, where originally, people will post their ideas and offer suggestion about balancing all these useless items in Demigod. I know it is a bit early, but i want this thread to be the main balancing thread, and to make these balance fixes myself if everyone here doesnt mind. Or somebody else can do it. I dont have a problem.

So this thread here is for everyone to post their ideas for balancing items, throw some suggestions, even thoughts about new items. Although i think we are better off balancing already existing ones.

So come people throw out your ideas and lets us start balancing the game! [e digicons]:thumbsup:[/e]

I made a beta version, that right now, has only balanced Helm items. I need a lot of feedback, and thus i cant make a full balance mod yet (need more info etc). Anyway the balance changes are:

Scaled Helm - unchanged. it is already a decent starting mana helm.

- Plate Visor - +35% mana per second (600 gold)

- Plate Visor - +50% mana per second, +425 mana (575 gold)

- Plenor Battlecrown - +1575 mana, +70% mana per second (1500 gold)

- Plenor Battlecrown - +1375 mana, +35% mana per second (1500 gold)

- Vlemish Faceguard - +1050 mana, +11 mana per second, +4 mana per second Aura (1750 gold)

- Vlemish Faceguard - +1050 mana, +4 mana per second, +8 mana per second Aura (1750 gold)

- Theurgist's Cap - +10 Health per second, +35% mana per second, +200 minion Health, +3 minion Health per sec. (2000 gold)

5% Chance on being hit to reduce the target's Health per second by 50% and mana per second by 50% for 10 seconds.

- Theurgist's Cap - +10 Health per second, +20 mana per second, +200 minion Health, +3 minion Health per sec. (2000 gold)

15% Chance on being hit to increase Health per second by 70% and mana per second by 70% for 10 seconds.

- Vinling Helmet - +1050 mana, +70% mana per second (price: 3300 gold)

3% chance on being hit to restore 350 mana.

- Vinling Helmet - +750 mana, +70% mana per second (price: 2250 gold)

-10% Cooldown Reduction Aura

- Hungarling's Crown - +700 mana, +18 mana per second, -25% mana cost Aura (price: 5500 gold)

- Hungarling's Crown - +1575 mana, +18 mana per second, -25% mana cost Aura (price: 4250 gold)

Updated to 0.3. The changes are:

- Plate Visor - +50% mana per second, +425 mana

- Plenor Battlecrown - +1375 mana, + 35% mana per second

- Vlemish Faceguard - +4 mana per second, +8 mana per second Aura

- Theurgist's Cap - +15% Chance on being hit to increase Health per second by 70% and mana per second by 70% for 10 seconds.

- Vinling Helmet - +750 mana, -10% Cooldown Reduction Aura, removed the previous effect.

Changed price of Vinling Helmet to 2250 gold.

Changed price of Hungarling's Crown to 4250 gold.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated[e digicons][/e]

Download here http://www.mediafire.com/?zmjizzgyyyj

Or here http://uploading.com/files/f3b1fd6e/Balance%2Bfor%2Bitems.rar/

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Updated to 0.3.

Posted the changes.

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Open a thread on gloves... there's alot to discuss

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Quoting ntropy,

reply 77

Open a thread on gloves... there's alot to discuss

Ok starting with gloves now. Helms are finished.

Gloves on the table [e digicons]2*[/e]

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oh lol I forgot to increase Plate Visors price hehe. Anyway, the balance right now is bad. Plate visor is extremly OP, Plenor the cap and vinling are meh.

Like I said, balancing mana items is VERY hard. So I agree: hp and gloves first.

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@lifekatana

oh lol I forgot to increase Plate Visors price hehe. Anyway, the balance right now is bad. Plate visor is extremly OP, Plenor the cap and vinling are meh.

Plenor and Vinling are not meh. I have tested them and I guarantee that Vinling is now a must buy or TB, reg, Tower rook. Plenor gives a Big increase in the mana pool and that's what it was intended for. However, 70% regen that it had before was extremly OP which made that helm break the balance.

Plate Visor is not OP, Scaled Helm still remains a better choice than Plate in maps which do not have a mana flag. However Plate Visor is now a better choice than Scaled in maps that have a mana flag (which was not the case before), and it remains a good item until mid-game.

As you mentioned lifekatana, we should start with HP (chest) item, before we touch damage items.

edit 1: A quick feedback on the helms. I've test all helms and their effects. I don't think any of the helms is OP or UP. I must say that I love the new Theurgist's cap especially on Sedna and Oculus. The new vinling is just a must buy for any TB, reg, Tower rook... and now especially with the price adjustment, they are all affordable alongside with citadel upgrade, idol purchases, consumables...I think we did a pretty good job on the helms

edit 2: Im just gonna throw my ideas about chest item balance. We need feedback for everyone

400g : ScaleMail: 400 Armor

550g : Banded Armor: 300 HP, +5 Hps

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 400 HP, +5 Hps, + 600 Armor

1750g: Haurbek Of Life: 300 HP, +10 Hps, + 200 Minion Hp, +3 Minion Hps

2000g: Duelist's Cuirass: 500 HP, 500 Armor, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike

2250g: Armor Of Vengence: 800 Armor, 70 damage reflected

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP

4000g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 10% chance on being hit to shield 500 damage

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 5 seconds. (like an Oak shield III with stun immunity, worth the price)

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Quoting lifekatana,

reply 79

oh lol I forgot to increase Plate Visors price hehe. Anyway, the balance right now is bad. Plate visor is extremly OP, Plenor the cap and vinling are meh.

Like I said, balancing mana items is VERY hard. So I agree: hp and gloves first.

Plate Visor is fine now. Your suggestion about Plate was OP.

Also: i consider Helms balanced now, and i am moving on to Gloves.

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First of All i want to thank you, Izuz, for continuing feedback support, and for your help in the changes for balancing Helm items.

You really gave me some good ideas and suggestions, Thank you [e digicons]k1[/e]

A few comments on your suggestions on Chest items:

400g : ScaleMail: 400 Armor

I agree we should leave ScaleMail as it is.

550g : Banded Armor: 300 HP, +5 Hps

I agree with this too. 400 HP for only 550 gold was OP until now.

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 400 HP, +5 Hps, + 600 Armor

Now, 400 HP is a little low, because you are spending 1500 gold. and the 600 armor doesnt make it worth it so much.

My suggestion is: 1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 500 HP, +5 Hps, + 600 Armor

1750g: Haurbek Of Life: 300 HP, +10 Hps, + 200 Minion Hp, +3 Minion Hps

Now thats just worthless. Just think that for 550 gold you get banded armor that gives you +300 HP. Hauberk was not worth it as it was anyway, because for 1500 gold you get Nimoth, that gives 500 Hp and 750 armor. My suggestion is:

1250g: Haurbek Of Life: 600 HP, +10 Hps, make it a straight HP item, without the minion buffs, that dont work anyway, because minion HP is bugged, when you summon them they have less HP than what they are supposed to. Also it favored genarals mainly until now.

2000g: Duelist's Cuirass: 500 HP, 500 Armor, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike

I agree on this one.

2250g: Armor Of Vengence: 800 Armor, 70 damage reflected

I think we should give it +200 hp and reduce the damage reflected to 50.

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP

10% is just too much, you would get healed a lot, i would like to make it 5%. Or reduce the healing to 200 HP. It already gives a lot of buffs.

4000g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 10% chance on being hit to shield 500 damage

10% and 500 damage is a LOT. Too OP. My suggestion is to make it 250 damage.

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 5 seconds. (like an Oak shield III with stun immunity, worth the price)

This is just 100% OP. Everybody would save to get this item. Late game ALL players would have GodPlate, and it would go a long way to be able to have a 5 sec shield. I cant think of anything good for Godplate, maybe we should leave it as it is.

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I agree with your suggestion, but I still think I few items needs to be reconsidered. I have tried to make most items with both our suggestions:

400g : ScaleMail: no change

550g : Banded Armor: 300 HP, +5 Hps (agreed)

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 550 HP, +5 Hps, + 600 Armor

1750g: Haurbek Of Life: 600 HP, +10 Hps, + 200 Minion Hp, +3 Minion Hps We need minion buffs on this one, for midgame minion builds)

2000g: Duelist's Cuirass: 500 HP, 500 Armor, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike (agreed)

2250g: Armor Of Vengence: 800 Armor + 500 HP, 50 damage reflected (took your suggestion)

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP it doesn't give much HP and its 3.75k gold. If anyone should buy this its or minion buggs + heals.

4000g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 10% chance on being hit to shield 300 damage

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 3 seconds. (like an Oak shield I with stun immunity, worth the price)

Om this one, maybe reduce the invulnerabilty time to 3 sec instead of 5 sec. its still 6K which is expensive when compared to citadel upgrades and minimum required survival items)l

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It din't make Plate OP... large price increase for an item that only gives a big mana pool. Anyway I don't see how plenor is usefull compared plate; Plate gives 15% more mana, has 900 less mana, but costs a heck of lot less.

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Quoting Izuz,

reply 83

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 3 seconds. (like an Oak shield I with stun immunity, worth the price)

Yeah.....no. Against a Rook with shoulder upgrades, an archer tower, or a minion swarm, this would proc near constantly and be way too OP.

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Could you put up a list of the prices/effects of the Hp items atm? It would help in figuring out the balances needed for the lesser well known items

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Quoting lifekatana,

reply 84

Plate gives 15% more mana, has 900 less mana, but costs a heck of lot less.

You just said it yourself. It gives 900 less mana. Thats a lot.

Quoting kitch45,

reply 86

Could you put up a list of the prices/effects of the Hp items atm? It would help in figuring out the balances needed for the lesser well known items

I will when i have time. No worries [e digicons][/e]

4000g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 10% chance on being hit to shield 300 damage

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 3 seconds. (like an Oak shield I with stun immunity, worth the price)

Izuz, these 2 items are definitely unfair vs Rook and Generals minion builds. The proc chances are kinda high. Just Rook's shoulder towers and archers alone, hit you a lot of times, not to count his spawned towers and his AA.

I dont have a lot of time now, but i will look into HP items more later.

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900 mana is one bat swarm. or two fireballs.

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Not everything is triggered by rooks shoulder arrows. Reflect isn't as far as I know. This would have to be tested and balanced.

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@ lifekatana

Plate is not OP and Plenor is not UP now. Plate have more % regen (15% more) but 900 less mana. Its a good starting helm in maps that have mana flags. that 15% more regen is not a big deal because the base mana regen of all DGs in the begining is very low. Plenor is still good in midgame because is give the largest mana increase. You will say that 35% regen is less than 50% on Plate but no, in midgame if you plenor that means u already have a Vlemish so the 35% regen is not something UP. We had to nerf that one to make the 3 most expensive helms viable as well.

@ kitch45

Here is a list of all HP items with prices and their effects atm.

400g: ScaleMail: 600 Armor

550g: Banded Armor: 400 HP, +5 Hps

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 500HP, 750 Armor

1750g: Haubrek Of Life: 600 HP, +10 Hps, 200 Minion HP, +3 Minion Hps

2500g: Duelist's Cuirass: 350 Armor, 500 HP, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike

3250g: Armor Of Vengence: 1050 Armor, Reflect 35 damage

4500g: PlateMail Of The Crussader: +20 Hps, 1000 Armor, 250 Minion HP, +4 Minion Hps, 1% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP

5200g: Groffing Warplate: 675 HP, 1200 Armor, 1% chance on being hit to shield 300 dmg

10000g: Godplate: 1050 HP, +20 Hps, 1200 Armor, 275 Minion HP, 300 Minion Armor

I took into consideration what has been proposed and I modified my suggestion for HP items.

400g : ScaleMail: 600 Armor (no change)

550g : Banded Armor: 300 HP, +5 Hps (agreed)

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 500HP, 750 Armor (no change)

1750g: Haubrek Of Life: 600 HP, +10 Hps, 200 Minion HP, +3 Minion Hps (no change)

2000g: Duelist's Cuirass: 500 HP, 500 Armor, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike (agreed)

2250g: Armor Of Vengence: 800 Armor, 50 damage reflected (reduced damage reflected from 70 to 50. I still think this item should not include any +HP, its an item to counter straight minion builds and tower Rooks)

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP (it doesn't give much HP and its 3.75k gold. If anyone should buy this its for minion buffs + % chance heals.)

Up to here it seems fair.

My previous suggestion for these two chest pieces seems OP and unfair to certain characters, mostly because of high chance of procc. So I did some modifications by lowering the % trigger for their effects. btw I think that the Godplate shouldn't include minion stats. No general ever buys that because they spend more money than assassin to buy idols. And with the standard minion items, they reach over 2k hp each (not to forget HotB).

4000g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to shield 300 damage

6000g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 3% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 3 seconds.

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I dont see why I would take plenor over plate. If you have a base mana(or somehow upped by others helms) of 20 mana a sec which isnt that much plate is worth more than plenor.

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Quoting lifekatana,

reply 91

I dont see why I would take plenor over plate. If you have a base mana(or somehow upped by others helms) of 20 mana a sec which isnt that much plate is worth more than plenor.

Ok lifekatana, take Plate and i will take Plenor. And you can have 70% less mana for a mere 15% more regen.

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@Izuz

400g : ScaleMail: 600 Armor (no change) [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

550g : Banded Armor: 300 HP, +5 Hps (agreed) [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

1500g: Nimoth Chest Armor: 500HP, 750 Armor (no change) [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

1750g: Hauberk Of Life: 600 HP, +10 Hps, 200 Minion HP, +3 Minion Hps (no change) [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

2000g: Duelist's Cuirass: 500 HP, 500 Armor, 10% chance for 1.5x critical strike (agreed) [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

2250g: Armor Of Vengence: 800 Armor, 50 damage reflected [e digicons]:yes:[/e]

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP ( I agree, but someone will have to test this, to see if 10% is too many heals, if it is OP i will nerf it.)

4250g: Groffing Warplate: 650 HP, 850 Armor, 5% chance on being hit to shield 300 damage (raised the price a bit, to make it more expensive than Platemail.)

6750g: Godplate: 850 HP, +20 Hps, 1050 Armor, 3% chance on being hit to become invulnerable for 3 seconds. (It is a very strong item cause of high HP, armor, Hps, and i think the price is fair, considering the chance to be invulnerable for 3 seconds.) I still have my doubts though.

Everything i checked with a [e digicons]:yes:[/e] are the items i am sure about.

Any thoughts?

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Ok so far so good, I agree as well. What do the others think ?

If you have the time to make an update to the mod with these changes, I will carefully test these items and see if the % chance procs are not OP or UP. Im sure other people would want to test them out as well.

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Platemail of Crusader is OP lol

Going to have to test this mod a bit...

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I will make the neccessary changes as soon as i have the time to do so.

Will be soon i hope [e digicons][/e]

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Are yall going to create mods to lower all of tb and QoT mana costs? If not then your monsters for changing vlehs and planor hell [e digicons]:annoyed:[/e] [e digicons]:annoyed:[/e] [e digicons]:annoyed:[/e]

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3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP ( I agree, but someone will have to test this, to see if 10% is too many heals, if it is OP i will nerf it.)

How about 15% proc chance 50hp per proc and then no hp pool buff at all?

+20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, +200 Minion Armor, + 5 Minion Hps, 15% chance on being hit to heal 50 HP

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I honestly can't see how Platemail of the Crussader is OP. It grants 400 less armor, with an addition of 200HP, and higher chance to heal 300 hp.

@ Miccalia: heal 50 HP? thats like 2 hits from a creep soldier.

just look at the difference:

4500g: PlateMail Of The Crussader: +20 Hps, 1000 Armor, 250 Minion HP, +4 Minion Hps, 1% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP

3750g: Platemail Of The Crussader: 200 HP, +20 Hps, 650 Armor, +200 Minion HP, + 5 Minion Hps, 10% chance on being hit to heal 300 HP

extra 200 HP, 350 les Armor, 50 less minion HP, +1 minio HPs, 9% more to heal 300 HP. I personally never bought platemail of the crussader. If i reach that amount of extra gold that I want to spend, its either Narmoth's ring for 4k or save a bit more to buy the groffing warplate.

edit: @ morpheas

Can you check the updates to version 0.3 in the OP about theurgist's cap, I think there is an inconsistency. the effect is suppose to increase health and mana per second by 70% for 10 sec, not reduce the target's HPS and MPS.

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@ Miccalia: heal 50 HP? thats like 2 hits from a creep soldier.

my thoughts are that if you are fighting a rook and you get this item it WILL proc constantly if the rook has towers + arrows + creep wave. if you get 300 hp per proc then how can they kill you?

Edit: if a creep hits you ten times and does (assuming 2 hits = 50) that means 250 damage and one proc = no damage arrows i forget the dps but its not a lot and you more hp than damage maybe 50 is too little but i think 300 at 10% is to much

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