Advanced 3v3 Cataract Tips / Strategy

I have to disagree here.

Early game: mana flag is very important. it allows you to use one more spit, bite, heal ... that will give advantage over the oponent. WARSCORE is usually almost equal during the first 4-5 levels.

Mid game: warscore is important, mid game almost all have 1 mana items or 2. therefore mana flag becomes the least important of all. Here my friend, the health flag is top priority because it will make you win battles. I usually never engange in any comfrontation with my team unless we control that health flag. Exprience flag is less important than health, but more important than mana flag because it will give you some exp advantate over your oponent (reaching level 7-10 1 min before your oponent unlocks more powerfull skills). And of course the gold flag, if you are able to take it and lock for several times, you deny your enemy a nice amount of gold that is transfered to you + you break down your enemies strategy because at least 1 of them has to wait for the cap lock to expire to regain that flag. That gives you a 45sec 3v2 over the map in your advantage, which you should use to make a strong move in the oposite side of the map (talking about cataract).

Late game of course, portals and valor flags are the way to go.

Nice tips overall.

2 people (minimum one general with monks) hitting enemy tower that leads to their gold flag. one defending other tower and runs back and forth to cap expierience flag. after lvl 5-7 it is important to gang so you should have teleport with you at all times.Either to help to finish someone or to help your friend. Dying is a no no in this game and if you think you can save someone from certain death always port, even if you about finish killing tower.

If someone chases past your flag or tower always port and if possible snare/stun so he gets all possible gamage from tower. This will give u high chance to get a kill.

Also very important thing u didnt mention is to get currency upgrade once you hit warrank 3. Expierience upgrade is also nice.

Early game kills are also important. If i see reg, tb, oak without minos, ereb without minons going solo at the start of the game for expierience flag i always engage. If you got other reg on your team or 2 of you chase its 90% chance to kill someone. Early kills allows you to get more upgrades faster (fort, gold, exp) but also dead enemy loses 1 or 2 leves and gold. Since that he got one item less and its potential target. it worth to go for kill even if towers kill you.

other thing that is quite usefull is recapping health flag when you teammate is engaging someone on other side. It will make enemy lose so hp he ddin expect and gives boost to your team mate. you have no idea how many kills it gave me.

ereb + sedna are very good at chasing enemies into towers since they both can heal easily, they might suprise you when you get around 1000hp and sit by your tower.

Well played rook is very powerfull on this map, since he can block patchs with his towers. try not to rush into his tower when he is past lvl 5 as he can stun you and then chase you with his shoulder upgrades - you would be suprised how fast you lose hp when 4-6 towers hit you at the same time. Ereb is a nice counter to that as he can batswarm past rooks towers and stun his pot/teleport (a must for good rook player) and mele/bite him to death.

Apparently all you need to do here is collect pots, sigils, etc, and focus on killing other gods and then tearing their defenses up when they are dead/running for health.  

/rant.

just right click everything. simple as that

it said advanced strategy, not noob / average strategy

quit the retard posts pls (that's for the 3 posts above me, the 1st reply was ok)

seriously irek? currency an advanced strategy?

it's like the most basic thing there is

and ofcourse you get kills when you can, I just said don't focus on kills, it will make you lose the game unless you're playing vs beginners who actually die when you try to kill them

izuz you may be right about the importance of mana flag early game and health flag mid game

mana flag gives you another 300? dmg early game (extra skill), health flag gives you an extra 200? health
so you'll have a 100 dmg advantage, no big deal

mid-game you still need mana, I'm nearly ALWAYS short on mana so the mana flag is just as important early / mid  and end game imo

I don't think either of the middle flags gives a huge advantage at any point in the game though

end-game the health flag gives a nice +500-800 health boost, but the portals are just way more important

if you have to choose between capping a portal or the health flag, you go for the portal end game, ofcourse if you can cap the health flag, do it, it's a nice bonus!

What about Gold flags end game.  I'm always struggling if we're in a back and forth (close game) and I have an open lane (or one I can push); should I:

1- Cap all flags on the way to Portal (and waste time doing it, but get HP bonus and Gold bonus) preventing them from porting behind me; or

2- Go straight to portal flag and then work backwards (i.e. Gold, then mana/hp)?

Thoughts?  I'm talking mid to end game here (level 12-17 depending on the game).

ThanatosESC.

P.S. I usually do #1, and most times I do #2, I get burned with gank.

once cats are out I'd say going for the portal is better, unless you'll get ganked if you run past capped enemy flags

however if your team is fighting 2v3 at the other portal or there are other reasons why the other team can't gank you if you run past those flags go for the portal (oak shield / ereb bat swarm / enemy team is dead / ...)

working back isn't really necassary either, you can just kill their towers to help your creeps

the middle flags are pretty much worthless that late game, unless you're still struggling killing the enemy team, then hp is pretty usefull

Wait so first you ask for 'advance' strategies than for everyone who posts you either say it's obvious and clearly not an andvanced strategy, stfu, or they are just wrong and they need to stfu. Why ask if you aren't goin to listen at all?

OMG noob. HP is the single most important flag after portal with giants. this gives you a 32.5 PERCENT advantage against your opponents. THIRTY TWO POINT FIVE PERCENT.

abug I didn't ask for strategies, I posted strategies since it annoys me people don't seem to understand those strategies

lifekatana health flag is usefull, I said it's usefull to have

it is however not needed to win a game, unless you keep fighting 3v3 at the health flag, then you'll lose if you don't control it

have you ever heard of arguments? you scream it's important and that I suck for thinking it's not that important, yet you fail to tell anyone WHAT makes it important

so you get another 200 - 800 health depending on the stage of the game? 800 health is nothing in a 3v3 battle, yes it helps 1v1, if the other guy plays better it won't make you win the battle though

I said it's a usefull flag, I just don't think it's THAT important, the enemy gold flag is way better for example, the health flag is only important if you're planning on having lots or big fights and if you want to kill enemies, wich isn't what wins games at all, unless you're playing against noobs

a lot seems to annoy you, and if you don't want people to reply to your topic you should become a moderator so you can sticky and lock it so you can have your way. -.-

I mean, you don't even know when to anticipate a sigil according to one of your other threads xP Answer: always expect it.

You can actually cap both gold and portal flag if you stand 1/2 way between the two.  Of course, if the towers aren't down yet, you'd better have a lot of HP.  As for getting ganked, that's why it's good to have a demigod with an easy escape route on your team (erebus with batswarm, or oak with tp + shield 3); or, better yet, two of them, so they can go for both portals at the same time.

I used to think that, but lately it seems that really isn't all-important.  It's useful, but so is having +20%xp, and +15% mana (esp if you're someone who's more mana dependant, like sedna or reg). 

srsly, focus on flags, xp, ws, gold / portal flags in an advanced strategy?  You don't think those are as basic as currency?

you assume ppl don't know to buy FS1 but that they obviously know to buy cur1?  And you include FS1 in an advanced strategy yet get pissed when people offer suggestions on the same level?

not to mention you even said it was 'basic' strategy that good players ignore in your OP.  A lot of good players have ignored getting cur1 @ WS3 ( I know I've gone up to ws 5-6 and had my team be liek "umm.. who got currency?  Oh shi-, we dont have it")

your whole guide isn't what I'd call advanced strategy anyway.. merely average.  Plz don't harp on other people who make decent suggestions.  If you really want to get into "advanced" strategy, that would be more along the lines of how you lure people into walking to a death trap.. how to fake an attempt at getting one portal so you get the other one.. how to make people waste teleports.. etc etc

@ abug: go flame somewhere else retard, you suck

@ rawr: I don't think not focussing on kills but focussing on those other things is basic strategy since I see ppl with 200+ games and 60%+ wins focus on killing and not those other things all the time, it's not because you're good enough to understand these strategies that everyone is

you probably play with your premade of ppl who arn't retarded all the time and never run into the ppl who don't understand this

fortified structures is only in there because I wanted to let ppl know how important those towers are, again I see a lot of good players just abandon the towers

look at what irek posted and what the replies to that post were, it's all totally irrelevant

I also mentioned this is merely basic strategy, but I alot of players with a decent amount of games and a decent win % fail to do one or more of these things, that's why it's advanced strategy for ppl who don't have an IQ of 140

Anyways, I got pissed because I made a serious topic trying to give ppl advice and got retarded replies

so I made a retarded reply about the retarded replies

and now you're trying to fix all the retardedness by posting more retarded replies, making me more pissed

...

I think the proper answer to 'just right click everything' is 'shut up retard'

exactly what I posted

"just right click everything. simple as that"

It was my replay to:

Apparently all you need to do here is collect pots, sigils, etc, and focus on killing other gods and then tearing their defenses up when they are dead/running for health.  "/rant."

Since we talked about 'advanced stuff like fort 1 and shit, i tought u might be smart enough to understand that joke. Oh well maybe i except too much from you. Sorry if that made you pissed off i wont expect more thinking from you. I will use plain and simple language like you so this topic stays on your level.

"End game: portals, screw all the other flags, you don't need em, get those portals!" rotfl right i want to see you defending your portal againts enemy who got hp flag mana flag and you cooldown flag (since you said screw them all) - this is some advanced shit !!!

If you gain any advantage on war rank late game, u should keep all flags to delay enemy catapults/giants thats how you win the game.

'@ abug: go flame somewhere else retard, you suck' - if he sucks you suck, blow and get laid in the closet like proper...

i mean if u r soo advanced how come most game you join are called 'average' medium skills'? Wouldnt that be shamefull thing to do for 'advanced' player like you?

Here's an edvanced strategy.

Take out the corner towers early. Your opponents are likely to pass on Tower HP to begin with, so the faster you take them out the better. Almost every game is decided on who gets those towers down first.

Never leave your corner towers unattended unless you are going to die. Shop only when needed and make sure you let your teammates know you are leaving tower so they can help out while you are gone.

Capture HP flag early and cap when needed. Most times your opponent will either run from this area, back off a bit or it will give you just enough time and HP to get first kill. Mana flag is okay, but HP is better. Capture mid as often as you can.

Once you get Gold tower down, capture as often as you can and take out both towers asap. I can't stress this enough to take out the towers. Nothing I hate worse than watching a dumb teammate rush to capture portal late game, while towers are still up, just to see them get teleport ganked because they didn't take out towers. That strategy rarely works.

Also, if you are trying to make a quick move anywhere, especially if rushing to move up left or right side, don't worry about capturing flag to green. Capture to yellow and move up. Example: Making a move on left, capture Mana Flag to yellow, corner tower is down, as well as gold flag towers, capture gold flag to yellow then move up to portal and capture all the way. Cap portal, then move back down. Your enemies can't teleport in on a yellow flag and on your way down, you will cpature flags to green. Late game, this is a very smart move. Especially if your teammates are keeping the enemy busy elsewhere.

Once corners are down, buy priests and work on minions. Your priests plus minions, will take out front towers rather quickly even if Tower HP 1 is already bought. Rarely will any good team even buy Tower HP 2 or higher. Once those front towers are down, the rest is very easy. Then its jsut a matter of your own flag control and tower protection.

Late game, make sure your whole team has plenty of teleports because if you are winning early through the strategy I explained, you'll have someone make a mad rush for your portals without taking out towers.

Another thing to keep in mind is letting teammates know, if you are the one protecting the HP flag, whether or not you are going to lose it, especially if you see your teammates engaging another DG. They will lose 200 plus HP depending on their level and the enemy will gain it. That could be the difference in whether or not you get a kill or the enemy does. Also, if you see your teammates engaging, but are just out of distance to help out, if enemy has the HP flag, the best thing you can do to help them as they fight other than teleport in, is recapture the HP flag(if free to do so) as long as it isn't capped. Like I said, that could be the difference in a kill for you or the enemy.

Attacking 3 on 3 is almost always going to end badly for one team. So unless you are damn good and have a ton of HP, its always best to not engage in these. Especially if your area towers are down. Best have one split off and go to work on capturing flags, portals or taking out towers.

And yes, warscore is damn important to capture flags as much as possible.

This is the best strategy I've used many, many times to win on this map.

My Assesment:

Stay in the 2 creep lanes at all costs, even if you lose a flag and need to retreat to your tower. It is easy to get outleveled by 2-3 levels on cataract if you don't get your creep kills. If this happens you are dead.

If your opponents leaves the lane(preferably forcibly :)), kill the creeps, get centre flag after. If you have the centre flag, work over the 1st tower in the lane.

You can also run up past the centre flag and get the creeps to chase you. However don't screw your teammates of XP. eg: Avoid gettig the creeps of the lane they are in by moving slightly to the opposite side in the centre and attract the creeps on te opposite to your teamates only. 

Once the first tower is down, generals can try to push up and grab the gold mine by distracting the towers with minions. Assasins can do this too, if you will not get kicked out of the lane after taking some tower damage.

DO NOT grab the enemy portals early running past the towers! Assuming you are competent eough not to die 1) This screws you out of XP in your lane 2) Almost ensures you will need to leave the lane to heal 3) You can't hold it, so you just gave them flag XP and and an extra creep wave XP/Gold)

And damnit, if you leave your lane, let your temamates know because they will probably be worrying about their lane. I cannot stress how imporant lane control is on this map.

This actually isn't very accurate.  See http://forums.demigodthegame.com/364951/page/1/#2385828. In addition, seems that on Cataract each of the portals controlls a gold mine, so controlling a portal gets you an extra gold mine.  The main issue though is that you need to have a good escape route in case the opposing team notices you at the portal (which will likely happen), e.g. need to be an oak with level 3 shield and teleport, or need to be erebus with batswarm.  If i'm playing one of these characters, i try to go for the portals early and often; enemy needs to catch you every time, you need to slip through their defenses only once.  Then you get gold and XP from it for the next 45+ seconds, and it provides a nice distraction.

Interesting... so I was inaccurate. I will mod my post after looking at gold provided to the enemy for killing the waves that come out, but it still looks like a bad idea early on and losing a lane is always a bad thing. I am interested in seeing if giving the enemy 2 waves of XP and creep gold is worth the extra ticks of gold and free XP for 1 wave for holding the portal for 2 waves. (which is usually what you get early in the game if you time it right when the other DGs are distracted)

But... You don't get XP for the first wave and you definitely cannot hold the flag early. So I think it is still not as important as farming your lane on cataract unless you can hold it after capping the portal, but I don't see this happening unless you are way better then the other players.

I've seen many competent players do this at level 3/4 and get kicked out of the lane shortly there after which is always worse.

Yeah, level 3/4 is probably a bit early for that.  I usually start going for the portals after level 8 or so, no earlier than level 7 as Oak (when I get Shield 3), and only if the corner tower (but not necessarily portal towers) is already down.  

With respect to the experience math, the XP from the second wave actually gives full creep wave experience to all players on your team; that means in 3v3 that's 231*3 = 693 experience.  Plus whatever XP you get by killing a wave that comes out of the portal as you're capturing it.  The opponents would get, at most, two waves split between all of them, if they happen to be around for both, and even then they'll likely miss the same number of your own portals' waves (i.e. net xp gain to opponents = approx 0).  That sets your team ahead in XP quite a bit.  

If they don't recapture the portal immediately after the lock wears off (often happens, sitting around and waiting would be a waste of good 45 sec), you can get second wave's experience.  So that would actually set you ahead in experience.

I agree, though, that it looks like it may set you behind in gold, and may take you away from where you need to be.  It's still a nice stunt, and a great way to distract the opponents, esp when they're putting pressure on you on the other end of the map.  But you're probably right, in most cases it's better strategically to take down the portal towers first.

Pretty much anything can be considered and advanced strategy if your team agrees on the overall goal of the game

For example if my team consists of DA, BotS Ub, and Assasin Ereb then a good strategy would be to focus ON KILLING DGS cause thats what your team is good at Spit + Grasp + Bats + Bite + Stun + Warp + Tail + Shadow Swap = dead dg then if someone needs to heal they go shop and you gtfo that lane if you can't hold it meaning you won't have a  wr adv but you will not be crushed either and you now have a gold adv rinse and repeat get a major gold adv buuy mageslayer take down the towers and you win

^^ can qualify as an advanced strat if the entire team knows the specifics of when to use which skilll when to tp in when to stun ect. so imo most advanced strats outside of 1v1 are simply good teamwork with an overall goal