Do you think when I say Auschwitz?

from JoeUser Forums



According to a BBC television poll found that 45 percent of 4000 questioned have never heard of the Auschwitz concentration camp in southern Poland. This is right before the 60th anniversary of the liberation of said camp.

I find that statistic shocking. Does this mean that people don't care to remember history? Does it mean that history has been changed to present a more politically correct image? (After all, Germans are just fun loving people who drink beer, always have always will....we wouldn't want to imply that any of them may have done something less than wonderful in the past)

It makes me wonder how many people still know who Hitler was or Stalin or how between 1940 and 1945 more than one million men, women and children -- most of them Jews from around 20 European countries -- died in horrific circumstances at Auschwitz, one of the most infamous of World War II concentration camps.

They say, If you forget history, it is destined to repeat itself. American troops made locals march through the camps after liberation to show them what had been done, and eliminate any chance of them denying it. Maybe we need to find a way of doing this for the current generations. By understanding what happened 60 years ago, we can remember that tyrany, genocide and hatred can spread very easily throughout the world....oh, wait. Have I seen any of these things in the news recently? OH YEAH!

Did Germany attack the United States first when the US decided to go to war with them back in World War 1 and 2? Does it matter to the ignorant masses who condemn the United States for supporting democracy and getting rid of dictators who run modern day death camps?
Let's put more a little more emphasis on reality and less on making everyone "feel" good.
2,479 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Amen, sister!

It scares me whenever I am reminded of how much people (especially 30's and younger, since that's what I am around alot) do not know, or do not remember of our history, local, national, and international. And then I'm reminded of how little I know, too.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am forced to remember the horrors of the death camps. I live in Israel and we are constantly reminded. Aside from that, I lost the whole side of my father's family right there in Aushewitz...not something easy to forget, or forgive.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Did Germany attack the United States first when the US decided to go to war with them back in World War 1 and 2?"

Germany didn't but Japan did. Japan, Germany, and Italy were all members of the Axis powers so when one of them attacked us, they all did. Iraq did not attack us and Iraq was not alligned with al Qaeda. Al Qaeda attacked us, not Iraq. Comparing Iraq with Nazi Germany isn't really a fair or accurate comparison. If we attacked Iraq because of the mass killings going on there, why didn't we act when a majority of these Iraqis were being slaughtered during the early 1990s? Why did the U.S. authorize Iraq's use of chemical weapons against Iran during the Iran-Iraq war? Why did we and others supply Iraq with chemical weapons in the first place? Because at the time it was convenient since we did not want Iraq to lose the war with Iran. Iraq was seen as an ally at the time...even as they were using chemical weapons against Iran and in spite of Saddam's mass murders. U.S. and British fighter jets flew overhead while the majority of these mass murders took place. We did nothing about it for 12 years and all of a sudden we attack them out of humanitarian concerns? I think not. The U.S. encouraged the Kurds and Shiites to rise up against Saddam only to abandon them and stood idly by while a majority of these killings occurred. It is a real stretch of logic to pretend Bush went to war against Iraq because of these killings. Assistant Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz was quoted saying that humanitarian intervention was not justification for invading Iraq nor was it the main reason for doing so. If we are so concerned with humanitarian concerns why have we done nothing to stop the massacre of tens of thousands in Sudan? There is genocide taking place there on a massive scale yet we are doing practically nothing to stop it other than promulgating some token lip service. We also did nothing to stop the genocide that occurred in Rwanda. So this whole notion of attacking Iraq because of the "torture chambers" and "mass graves" simply doesn't square with the reality of why we are there. Sad but true...
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Important points LH. We must remember the horrific experiences of Man's inhumanity to Man, that we may not repeat them.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Al Qaeda attacked us, not Iraq.

WTF does this have to do with the article? Are you trying to take Muggaz crown as King thread hijacker? Hows about talking about the actual TOPIC? Here I have a frosty cool Trolling for you.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
My uncle helped liberate one of the camps, I can't remember which and he has passed away now. He told me it was shocking, especially seeing the children. What has always got to me is the precision of it, the exacting science of mass murder that these monsters created. When I see someone wearing a swastika tattoo or lightning bolts with pride, I just shake my head...
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

When I see someone wearing a swastika tattoo or lightning bolts with pride


Thankfully we have marginalized these sorts of assbiscuits to the point of total irrelevancy. The NSM pages have pics from their rallies.. it is the same 20 folks over and over.....

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Lifehappens, thank you so much for this article. As someone of German-Italian descent, I have always been ashamed of my German heritage. I rarely acknowledge it. I find it appalling that anyone...anyone in this entire world could not know what Auschwitz was! I am 31 years old and have known about the German atrocities since I was 6 years old.

Did Germany attack the United States first when the US decided to go to war with them back in World War 1 and 2? Does it matter to the ignorant masses who condemn the United States for supporting democracy and getting rid of dictators who run modern day death camps?
Let's put more a little more emphasis on reality and less on making everyone "feel" good.


This was the most important quote of the article, IMO. In hindsight, don't we wish we would have stopped the German attrocites before we were ever attacked? How many more innocent lives could have been saved?
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
My favorite quote applies here i think

He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I find this statistic shocking as well. For me this is not only world history, but family history as well.
Does it mean that history has been changed to present a more politically correct image? (After all, Germans are just fun loving people who drink beer, always have always will....we wouldn't want to imply that any of them may have done something less than wonderful in the past)

What does this have to do with the label of being "politically correct"??? It's the very opposite. It's not about putting a happy face on the German people...it's about acknowledging the potentially atrocious capabilities of humankind and how easily hate or apathy can spread en masse if it's not kept in check. If you had another reason for associating political correctness with ignorance of the Holocaust, please don't hesitate to say, and I will try to help out with the confusion.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

If you had another reason for associating political correctness with ignorance of the Holocaust,


it is politically guache to even mention the holocaust in polite German society (and even in our own). I think that was implied fairly clearly in the article.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
it is politically guache to even mention the holocaust in polite German society (and even in our own).


Well, I admit that I don't know much about "polite German society", but I don't think that it's insensitive in an articulate discussion as long as people are informed and thoughtful (it's another issue entirely in the presence of a survivor). The best way for people to think for themselves is to encourage dialogue. As many people have essentially stated, it's important to acknowledge the mistakes made in the past in order to truly move on. The Nazis weren't alien monsters; they were human, and it goes to show that everyone is capable of following such a misguided agenda, to put it lightly. Btw, I don't have anything against German people; it's quite possible to associate Nazism with 1930s/40s Germany without associating modern-day Germany with Nazism.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
And then I'm reminded of how little I know, too.


Exactly.

I am forced to remember the horrors of the death camps. I live in Israel and we are constantly reminded. Aside from that, I lost the whole side of my father's family right there in Aushewitz...not something easy to forget, or forgive.


Manopeace, I never knew that about you. I agree, it is something that you would hope no one would forget. I am shocked that so many people have only a vauge idea of what happened. I conducted an unofficial poll in my area and I had to stop because I was amazed at the answers I got. "Didn't something bad happen there once?"-27 year old "Wasn't that in a movie?"-14 year old

it was shocking, especially seeing the children.
He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it.

I read the Diary of Anne Frank in 5th grade and became interested in the survivors of the camps. i read countless books on the subject for many years. In high school, there was a mandatory history class....we spent one week on the Holocaust....It was just names and dates.....too many times the reality of the people, the children involved is glossed over in favor of cold, sanitary dates and places.

I have always been ashamed of my German heritage. I rarely acknowledge it.


You shouldn't be ashamed of who you are. By being aware of how such atrocities could happen, you can prevent them from happening again. The majority of Germans were good people....but they didn't stop it when they had the chance themselves. If we are proactive in our actions we may prevent further atrocities.

(After all, Germans are just fun loving people who drink beer, always have always will....we wouldn't want to imply that any of them may have done something less than wonderful in the past)
What does this have to do with the label of being "politically correct"??? It's the very opposite


Try infusing the original comment with a liberal helping of sarcasm...Then read it again.



Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

I read 'Stones From The River' recently, and learned a lot about wartime Nazi Germany.


When you say Auschwitz, I automatically think of 'Arbeit Macht Frei'...even though that was on the gates at Dachau.  I also think of millions of Jewish men, women and children, stripped naked, heads shaved, starved, beaten, tortured for weeks, months, perhaps years.......then gassed under false pretenses or shot and their bodies bulldozed into pits.  I think of Nazi fucking asshole pigs, and I feel the rage start to burn in me........


...I felt the same rage this morning when I read in the British papers that too many people don't know what Auschwitz is/was.  That's just tragic.  If we don't remember our history, we are doomed to repeat it.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
"WTF does this have to do with the article? Are you trying to take Muggaz crown as King thread hijacker? Hows about talking about the actual TOPIC? Here I have a frosty cool Trolling for you."

It has everything to do with the article. The article makes a comparison between the U.S. involvement in WWII with current U.S. efforts to topple certain dictators. Here is what the article said and what I was responding to "Did Germany attack the United States first when the US decided to go to war with them back in World War 1 and 2? Does it matter to the ignorant masses who condemn the United States for supporting democracy and getting rid of dictators who run modern day death camps?" You are way out of line greywar and it really suprises me that you are being so personally hostile.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

You are way out of line greywar and

I didn't think so.


This article was not primarily about comparing who did what to kick off WWII.  It was about the fact that more than a few people have never heard of Auschwitz and other Nazi death camps.


You took the ball and ran in (what both he and I considered to be) the wrong direction with it....and he called you on it.  As for him being personally hostile...well, if you think that's hostile you really haven't seen anything yet.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Since I am so much older than most of you, I can recall vividly the history of the concentration camps, Auschwitz and the Holocaust. My brother was a medic assistant in Germany during WWII and he had help to rebury hundreds of victims that had been dumped into mass graves.

I remember seeing a movie called "Hitler's Children" when I was about 13 years old. It shocked me so bad that I had nightmares for a long time after that.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
T_Bone4Justice-
I ignored your comments because this article was not really about that. I was talking about Auschwitz and the fact history has been PCed and that people have forgotten what signifigance that had. Maybe I will write an article about WWII and how it took an attack on our soil before people woke up to what was happening in the world around us. We should get our heads out of the sand.....but I will save that for another time. Unless of course you manage to write a really stimulating article about it first. Have fun.

Oleteach.
I'm glad to see that Greywar has learned to keep his eyes open and really see the world around him...I bet alot of that comes from you.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
lifehappens, I was not trying to "hijack" your article's intent. I simply commented on the last thing you wrote in your article. I was actually suprised to see that you threw the last paragraph in there. That is why I commented on it.

"This article was not primarily about comparing who did what to kick off WWII."

Then why mention it in the article in the first place? I am not trying to say what people should or should not include in any given article but if you DO include something then I think it is perfectly fair to comment on it. Lastly, I believe my "hostility" comments were directed to greywar and not to anyone else. Greywar and I have had some great conversations which is why I questioned his unusual hostility. It is between greywar and I...not anyone else.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

Does it matter to the ignorant masses who condemn the United States for supporting democracy and getting rid of dictators who run modern day death camps? Let's put more a little more emphasis on reality and less on making everyone "feel" good.


a great suggestion--one that i particularly applaud after seeing an hour-long feature about saddam hussein on the history channel thursday morning.  i dont believe the history channel has a political agenda.  it was very clear however that the chemical horror that hussein inflicted on iran, iraqi shiites and iraqi kurds was a consequence--and i dont think its going to far to qualify it further as a direct consequence--of the reagan administration's short-sighted and seriously flawed foreign policy.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

"This article was not primarily about comparing who did what to kick off WWII."

Then why mention it in the article in the first place?


You take one line out of an article and go off on an tangent about it.   The author told you herself that she ignored your comments because that's NOT what she wrote the article about.  But, you seem to prefer to pick on what I said to you, so go right ahead.


As for the comments being between greywar and yourself.....this is the forums.  Anything you write here is fair game......the fact that you wrote a whole response based on one line of an article should show you that.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
okay guys. keep it nice. BTW, I'm not offended. I appreciate stimulating coversation as much as the next person and if you want to hit that subject head on you are more than welcome to so so. I'm just not really in a big debating mood right now so I'll let this topic rest for another day. (Baby-induced sleep deprivation drains my brain cells) And I know Greywar in the real world and like him anyway, so be very careful about being mean to him.....I might get cranky...

Kingbee, I'm not going to lay the blame only on Regan....the foreign policies and attitudes of many leaders went into the situation. But I do see where you are coming from. I cringe as we look back with 20/20 hindsight at what we should have or could have done.