Colonization slowdown

from Sins Forums

Coming back to the game after a 6 month hietus.  I guess I got a little rusty - can't remember how to quickly expand.

I used to do the "dual expansion" thing where I'd send a colony cap one way, and some frigs with a colony frig the other.  After coming back I seem to be hitting a dilemna which creates a slowdown.  If I run off some ships to send in one direction, I haven't dropped my 2 civ labs to research ice or volc.  Sure, I can get my first connecting roid (provided there is one), but then I have to sit and wait a while, creating a slowdown.  Even my cap can't colonize, since I've most certainly sent it to a nearby ice or volc to start clearing on its own.

However, if I drop the civ labs first and rearch ice or volc, then it seems I don't have money to run off a small fleet of scouts/lf to send with the colony frig.  So that slows me down.  Basically, I'm saying that whatever choice I choose, I hit a slowdown.  Now, once I've sat around long enough and have enough money for everything (lab, research, mini-fleet, etc.) then things start flowing along okay.  But if I'm remembering correctly, it seems I used to colonize way faster back in the day.  I didn't hit this slowdown.  But I can't remember what I used to do, and I won't dare attempt an online game until I get this ironed-out.

What am I doing wrong (probably something obvious, ha)?  For the moment use all "normal" settings as a baseline.

Thanks.

strategy
7,341 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

The mistake was building your labs before you made your fleet.  Invest the funds into your fleet then start building the labs since the funds required will grow back as soon as the colonization cap gets built.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

There's a pretty good rule of thumb for this.

If you're playing quick start, this shouldn't be a problem. Scout, figure out what each planet is. Build your two labs, and send about five frigs (2 lf, 2 scout, 1 colonizer) to the roid, and a couple frigs with your colonizer. This shouldn't be a problem because you get so much money early on with quickstart

I don't advise double colinization if you're not playing quick start. Get your roid first, everything else second. No quick start is the old fashioned method of sins. Quick start is all you'll see online anymore (damn't).

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

If you're playing quick start, this shouldn't be a problem. Scout, figure out what each planet is. Build your two labs, and send about five frigs (2 lf, 2 scout, 1 colonizer) to the roid, and a couple frigs with your colonizer. This shouldn't be a problem because you get so much money early on with quickstart
End of quote

sometimes its better to not send any frigs with your colony frigate, if you send your colonizer alone and colonize the roid, just build a turret right next to the roid in front of where the seige frigate is, you can kill the seige frigate that way and the lf will get killed too, you can colonize up to a chain of 2 roids this way, without building frigates and you can scuttle the turret later giving some of your money back

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

The coloniser and turret ploy just seems to me to be an exploit based on poor AI.  If the game had proper planetary defences for neutrals, it might be improved.

I've rarely encountered quickstart..?  I'm not keen on it though.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

My post didn't address balancing your expenditures.  I was more referring how to keep colonization moving regardless of the map layout, presuming you had relatively steady income to do so.

 

Let's look at the expenditure breakdown shall we? (values used are TEC)

  • 3 light frigates (900 credits, 165 metal)
  • 1 colony frigate (450 credits, 100 metal, 50 crystal)
  • 2 civic labs (1500 metal, 160 metal, 120 crystal)

This comes out to 2850 credits, 425 metal, 170 crystal, which is less than your starting resources.  Even presuming you pump out a few scouts (normal) your income should be able to cover a few extractors and planet upgrades.  I don't know what's slowing you down here.

Now, if you're playing without quick start, that adds a lot of extra expenditure and this may be what slows down your initial expansion.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I already know all of those tricks in Darvin3's excellent post (which should be stickied or put in a guide), plus a few more tricks that aren't in there and that I'm not divulging at the moment, ha ha.  Now, whether I can execute said tricks at this juncture is another story, heh....

Anyway.  I never play quckstart.  That must be my problem - that plus a little rust.

Perhaps Amish and/or Darvin3 could write up some guildelines related to quickstart, if they are someday motivated?

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

You know, I began learning multiplayer on vanilla, but really I switched over to Entrenchment very early on.  I'm not the right person to do a compare and contrast between normal and quick start.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I play Entrenchment exclusively myself, I just do it on normal start.  And when I play alone or in a private game with friends, normal speed too.  I don't like a tactical clickfest.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

I don't like a tactical clickfest.
End of quote

Doesn't matter what speed you play on, slow or fast, the amount of micro is the same. 

The speed settings in Sins are not like the settings in other RTS games which just increase the game clock speed.  They increase the rate of income, research speed, and culture speed, but actual battles take place at the same pace with everything else moving faster around them.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

I can give you a few good rules of thumb about quick start. The days of yore when no quick start was the norm is when I was at my best.

Not to make a duh statement, but quickstart essentially puts you about at where you would be at 10 minutes into the game. That's the way I see it. The mines are built. You already have a cap factory.  You already have two scouts. Your homewold is at full population.

If you want to play quick start, here's my general rule of thumb:

1. You can build up to two labs of your choice ( i prefer 2 logistical so I can tech for ice/lava )

2. You should start queing up a mix of light frigs and scouts (or a colonizing frig or two if you don't pick the colonizing cap) until you max out the first tier of units. If you're playing on normal this means ballpark 5-10 light frigs, 10-20 scouts. Depends on play style.

3.I personally like to send my colonizing cap to colonize the roid because of colonizing bonuses. That's just me. The go two way method works. I think there are times when most people would but I won't, but yet other times when I would, but other people wouldn't.

4. Quickstart makes it so much easier to get the game going. Keep the amount that you tech early low (keep it to ice/lava, and maybe some basic military upgrades), but keep the fleet large. The bigger and faster it grows, the faster you'll expand and get a bigger going.

5. Watch some replays. Astax has a post in the multiplayer section of the forum with a couple of replays. Those should help you get a feel for what the game currently plays out like. Check out the one what is a scout rush. That was especially fun.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

3.I personally like to send my colonizing cap to colonize the roid because of colonizing bonuses. That's just me. The go two way method works. I think there are times when most people would but I won't, but yet other times when I would, but other people wouldn't.
End of quote

I personally decide whether or not to do this based on my scouting results to date.  If I don't see anywhere I want to send my colony cap right away, then I definitely send it to my asteroid.  If my asteroid is a dead end and I'll have to back-track, I definitely don't send my capital ship there.

A great example was just last night where I started with an asteroid and a terran adjacent to my homeworld.  The asteroid was only connected to a heavily defended desert, whereas the terran was lightly defended.  No-brainer, send my cap to the terran and my frigates to the asteroid.  Now, if the terran had been on the other side of that asteroid and the heavily defended desert was close-by, I'd have done the opposite and just sent my cap to the asteroid. 

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Kharma, did you used to play on all fast? because on all normal you will have less resources with which to colonize

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

I usually cap asteroids before killing the siege frig since i can kill it of faster than it can bomb those 300 starting health. It doesn't buy you a lot of time, but in the first 5 minutes the sooner you get them resource mines the better.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 10

I don't like a tactical clickfest.
Doesn't matter what speed you play on, slow or fast, the amount of micro is the same. 

The speed settings in Sins are not like the settings in other RTS games which just increase the game clock speed.  They increase the rate of income, research speed, and culture speed, but actual battles take place at the same pace with everything else moving faster around them.
End of Darvin3's quote

Darvin3, are you sure about this?  If so, I stand corrected, but I could have always sworn that the faster game speeds increase movement speed.  If this is the case, then the amount of micro is NOT the same, because you have far less time to micro everything you need to micro when everything is moving faster.

So what's the story here?

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

but I could have always sworn that the faster game speeds increase movement speed.
End of quote

I don't know what the "faster movement speed" setting does, since I didn't notice any changes between normal and fast.  In any case, it doesn't affect attack speed, which is the prime determinant of how quickly a battle progresses.  In any case, even on "fast" move speed, anything that isn't a strike craft moves exceedingly sluggishly and turn speed is going to be what slows you down.