Stats points for Assassins: bad or good?

from Demigod Forums

Let's begin with some numbers:

1 level of Stats: +115 HP / +0,18 HPS / +105 Mana / +0,32 MPS / +25 armor / +6 Weapon damage / +2% Attack speed

3 levels of Stats: +345 HP / +0,54 HPS / +315 Mana / +0,96 MPS / +75 armor / +18 Weapon damage / +6% Attack speed

6 levels of Stats: +690 HP / +1,08 HPS / +630 Mana / +1,92 MPS / +150 armor / +36 Weapon damage / +12% Attack speed

Always keep in mind during this analysis that you can't reach level 5 of stats before level 10 and level 6 of stats before level 15!

These numbers are NOT progressive, each step is totally the same as the one before and the one that will follow. So gaining these stats points when you're a weak level 1 DG is much better than a strong level 15 DG, right? Gaining +115 HP when you got around 1500 HP is more important than gaining +115 HP when you got around 4500 HP. This means, the more you wait, the less effective it is.

Let's take an example, a level 6 assassin DG spent 3 points on Stats (half of his levels), he will get these advantages:

+0,54 HPS & +0,96 MPS ...  +32,4 HP in one min & 57,6 Mana per minute (for example, Venom Spit II is 650 mana, so you have to wait more than eleven minutes to get a "free Venom Spit II") => totally useless

+75 armor ... doesn't seem very much... Have you noticed a 1500 armor item gives you ten times this protection? (AND 500 Health) => useless 

+345 HP ... OK, this is never useless BUT this is a matter of two AA, it won't make a significant difference

+315 Mana ... Half of a Heal III by Sedna, this is not that bad, but just one half-spell free

+18 Weapon damage ... Far less better than a 400 gauntlet item.

+6% Attack speed ... This can be great for DG who relies on AA

I mean, this is always better than nothing. Having +345 HP is better than +0 HP but sacrificing 3 level points for the combinaison of very little bonuses... Is this really efficient?

It's very difficult to estimate with precision the impact of Stats point, because it will depend on your skill, your opponent's and ally's ones, the DG choosen, the gears choosen and so on... Can you really say "yeah, these 4 points of Stats really help me in this duel at that moment of the game!" ?? Are you sure, in a perfect mirror match, with the only difference the opponent choose other skills than stats, you would have won??

I made a test: if stats points are stronger at the beginning of the game, why not trying to boost them asap? I wanted a strong AA DG for this, with passive abilities so I chosse Rook (but I could have choosen UB) and follow this strategy: trying to max stats, choosing 0 ability that requires mana (except one point in Boulder Roll for interrupt) and with no mana items, buying only HP/armor or damage. Here's the build I've tried:

Starting with BotF, Banded armor + Scalemail

lvl 1 save

lvl 2 Stats + Archer Tower

lvl 3 save

lvl 4 Stats

lvl 5 God Strength + Boulder Roll

lvl 6 Tower of Light

lvl 7 Stats

lvl 8 Stats

lvl 9 Trebuchet

lvl 10 God Strength

 

and the result was... really terrible! I got my ass kicked altought non-tower Rook is one of my best DG. My conclusion was "no hammer = lose".

Some of you will argue "yeah, you can't compare Stats to Hammer Slam", but that's just an example, and my point is, finally, Stats are not good at all in comparaison of what you gain by sacrificing skill points.

The only time I now choose to take Stats is if I know I have no other useful abilities to take, right now or even in future.

What's your opinion about that? Have you ever been depited by the use of Stats points?

2,646 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Theres one reason IMHO : many people tend to always take additionnals spells, to have more actions possible during the fight. As a result, they jump into battle, cast spell1, 2, and 3, 1 again, and then simply go out of mana and become useless chaff (and go back to base to get some mana).

I realized in my recent games that I rarely buy mana items now, yet I never have mana issues. The reasons for that is : I tend to give early stats points to assassin, and I favorize minions builds for generals. I also use my spells far more carefully.

The bonuses given by stat points are not great for sure, and rook is probably the worst example (because he has the best stats, so these little bonuses make only little difference : try with reg and look for fire TB which has the choice between stats points beyond lvl 15, or 4 levels - 16 to 19- invested into a spell he will never cast)

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting ese-aSH, reply 1

The bonuses given by stat points are not great for sure, and rook is probably the worst example (because he has the best stats, so these little bonuses make only little difference : try with reg and look for fire TB which has the choice between stats points beyond lvl 15, or 4 levels - 16 to 19- invested into a spell he will never cast)
End of ese-aSH's quote

I have to agree, Fire TB and Reg benefit the most (sins part), and as u know, my UB build. I always tryed to put stats with Rook, but it is just not good, you are right about this DG imo.

WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

We should play sometime, I honestly can't picture a truly dangerous hammer rook.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I think a well played tower rook would beat a well played slam rook. Mainly because when you hit level 15, you have all of your abilities and the reduced cooldown from staff of renewal. However, because you rely on needing 2 mana items relatively early in the game, a slam rook will have double your hit points around lvls 5-10, and as soon as the slam rook hits lvl 10 he might get a lucky nuke or two on your lower hp. I'd play you at some point for the lols Obscenitor :D Probably won't be able to go into range of you for most the game though ;'(

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

@ OP, I often pick up stats, but I only ever get them late game, where the % atk speed bonus is a lot more effective.

Although its probably not the best use of skill points, but I personally don't use towers or transfer.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

I personsonally have some sucess with an AA Reg build.  I found works well to put points into stats, mines, and AF. 

This is kind of a glass cannon build that goes all out aa dmg, useing poison dagger as a favor item.  Now this fails miserably if you opponate actually stacks armor.  But as it stands most stack HP.

This build is not great, but its fun.  It can easily have an AA attack of 400-500 by midgame and add in some crits and it can work, especialy when you work with a teammate who can tank for you.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

The bonuses given by stat points are not great for sure, and rook is probably the worst example (because he has the best stats, so these little bonuses make only little difference : try with reg and look for fire TB which has the choice between stats points beyond lvl 15, or 4 levels - 16 to 19- invested into a spell he will never cast)
End of quote

I should give a try but - Fire TB can't even aim with AA when following someone & Reg AA build is not know for being the best, am I right? (nearly never played him)

I have to agree, Fire TB and Reg benefit the most (sins part), and as u know, my UB build. I always tryed to put stats with Rook, but it is just not good, you are right about this DG imo.
End of quote

Aren't UB stats nearly similar to Rook's ones? I think they're the top two for stats, arent' they? 

We should play sometime, I honestly can't picture a truly dangerous hammer rook.
End of quote

I always enjoy matches with good players - when you want, Obscenitor.

 

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Stats are okey if you have nothing else to put them in. Like my Fire TB, past level 15 is all stats.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

I would think Fire TB would be one of the absolute last characters you'd want stats on. He can't even autoattack correctly so you're only getting the mana regen which is unnecessary with Inspirational Flame and the health/armor which are kind of paltry compared to TB's stats at that point.

I'm always torn between deep freeze, blizzard, and frost nova at that point. I usually go blizzard unless I'm against Sedna.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

You can buy items that do exactly the same things your magical "stats" can. no item gives you a skill such as pounce or venom spit. So, it is better to max your attack/defense/killing skills and buying items that give you health/mana/attack speed that the stats would give you.

 

you are wrong.

 

./endthread

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

even you have a hammer but doesn't have towers, you lose...

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

I think beast is one of the few demis that can actually use stats to an advantage.  If you are playing against sedna, erubus, or even oak, they have a direct counter to spit.  I would probably take disease claw 1, and then stats instead of spit.  If someone actual bought a symbol of purity your spit becomes pretty useless and the small advantage spit gives is better then auseless skill that only sucks mana.

 

If you are a slam rook, and you are facing a silence heavy TB/Sedna team it may also make sense instead of hammer

 

Stats is best used when you have been completely countered...  Demigod isn't a game where that is suppose to happen (3 minute learning curve) but the beast situation is my prime example.