Staffa Staffa

Devaluation of old scores

Devaluation of old scores

To keep the Metaverse filled with active players rather
then clogging the top ranks with old farts who dont
play anymore, old scores are devalued over time.

I heartily agree with the intent but not the method.

I dont want to go into why the method currently used
isnt that good, CM has done a fine job of that. But unlike
CM I do not merely wish to adjust the numbers to mask the
wierdness that occurs with his specific set of data, cause
that wierdness occurs regardless of how its masked in a
single instance.

When you want to remove old games from the metaverse
in a slow, continious fasion, you do so by giving less
weight to the older games.

To take an example. I want to average two numbers, lets
say 1,000 and 10,000. But I want to give 5 times as much
weight to the 1,000 number. This means that the 1,000
number is 5 times more important then the 10,000 number.

I would first multiple the 1,000 number by 5, to get 5,000
then add the 10,000 to get 15,0000, and then I would divide
by 6 to get to 2500. This is the same thing as saying I
averaged 1000, 1000, 1000, 1000, 1000 and 10000. I just
weighted the 1000 5 times as heavily.

Now, using 20% devaluation per month as an example(though
5% would be more realistic)

Scores that are a month old would be worth 800 points but
add only .8 to the square root divider, 2 months and 600 and
.6, etc until its zeroed out, essentially removing the
score competely from consideration. Which at 20% would
happen after 5 months.

Some numbers to show what would happen

This example assumes you submit 1, 1000 point game
once a week.

With no devaluation:
1000, 1414, 1732, 2000, 2236, 2449, 2646, 2828, 3000, 3162, 3317, 3464, 3606, 3742, 3873

With 20% devaluation
1000, 1414, 1732, 2000, 2191, 2324, 2408, 2449, 2449, 2449, 2449, 2449, 2449, 2449, 2449

Notice that after 2 months the score competely stabilizes.

Thats because your entering new(identical) scores as fast
as they are being removed.

In a more realistic setting, so long as you individual
scores improve, your overall scores will ALWAYS rise. In
fact, if your earlier scores are much lower then your
more current scores(as is often the case), your score
will rise even faster as those earlier games are taken
out of consideration.

This basicily represents a method to score only your more
recently played games, as its equally effects everyone
there is no unfairness in it. Playing more games will
still be advantagous and so long as you remain active
you will never be penalized by having your individually
scored games becoming worth less over time.

To sum up, this basicily makes your more current games
more important, it does not make your older games of less
value, contrary to what some might think, there is a
difference.

800 points when adding a .8 to the divisor is still valued
correctly just not as heavily. Unlike adding 800 points
while adding 1 to the divisor, which is what is currently
being done.

Actually im not that good at math, techinically you might
have to subtract the sqrt of .2 from the divisor each month
rather then .2. I did the math both ways and the end result
is essentially the same.


1,466 views 57 replies
Reply #51 Top
You know, I don't think I'm going to waste any more time running simulations since too many people seem dense beyond my help. I have posted ad nauseam that there's next to no significant difference between an explicitly weighted formula and the sort of decay system we have when it comes to your actual score (which is what should matter since that's where your rank comes from).

As best I can tell, the only real issue is whether the metaverse displays your original score or the decayed one. If it displays the actual one, it isn't worth the trouble to argue over whether a decaying formula or weighted one is used.
Reply #52 Top
You know, I don't think I'm going to waste any more time running simulations since too many people seem dense beyond my help. I have posted ad nauseam that there's next to no significant difference between an explicitly weighted formula and the sort of decay system we have when it comes to your actual score (which is what should matter since that's where your rank comes from).


There's no difference given YOUR numbers. I see no evidence of YOUR PH. D. Yet you call others dense and act like a jerk any time someone happens to disagree with you. Why don't you just do society a favor and jump off a bridge? It would be better off without your miserable kind in it.
Reply #53 Top
Ok I got it!

Frequency of games, your system punishes excessively
those that play more frequently, which would happen
if you perfer smaller maps.

As your denominator never adjusts, an accumulation of
a large number of games will become quite a burden!

Also, if the system doesnt actually remove anyone, whats
the point of it anyway, if someone plays 2 years
they effectively gotten the score they will always
have regardless?

That seems rather pointless, either you remove old people
who dont play anymore, or you dont, you dont make a
system that encourages people to play for a set amount
of time to permenantly retain their rank.


Reply #54 Top
Staffa, it doesn't. Because you have just as many non-decayed games which offset the older decayed games.

The big difference between a weighted system and a decayed system is the weighted system achieves a higher peak before levelling off. The question is: is this what we want when the whole point of the decay is to give the newer player a chance to catch up?

I personally have run the simulations, I've taken plenty of statistical classes in my day, and while I can plug data set after data set to prove this, I see no point any more. I don't have a PhD, but I have plenty of higher education to know the soundness of my analysis.

Basically, you all, for some reason that escapes me, decided that a weighted system was better a priori without any actual proof and even when it's demonstrated that it doesn't have any real superiority, it doesn't matter, you'll keep arguing your point.

I wanted to improve the existing method, not prove it's better than a weighted system since all they are is slightly different. I would think the graphs would shoul that, but Pontius seems to be suffering from the same delusion that you, Staffa, did initially, that I've fixed the data set.

Well, you know, if that's what my efforts are going to be received as, why the hell should I bother trying to satisfy the critics. Write your own simulators, plug in your own data sets, and if you can find out where I'm wrong, go for it. Otherwise, I'm done with this unless I happen to feel like showing something for my own reasons.
Reply #55 Top
The big difference between a weighted system and a decayed system is the weighted system achieves a higher peak before levelling off. The question is: is this what we want when the whole point of the decay is to give the newer player a chance to catch up?


Wait a minute. You just said there is no significant difference between the two.
Hmmmm. Now all of a sudden, there is and we should "Help the newbie"? If there's "No significant difference between the two as you claimed when you berated me and my sense" then what is the point of arguing one over the other? HMMMMM? Hmmmmmm?

Punked. Bagged. Owned.

Bwahahahahhahahaha this is too easy.




Reply #56 Top
The two biggest difference between the two is that mine
mathematically makes more sense(Ill concede this
is irrelevent considering the amount of coding
time they care to give to such minor issues)

But the second one is more relevent and you have
not addressed it.

That my method has the player disappearing competely
once they go inactive.

Now I perfer to either retain my score fully, or to
have it disappear competetly. I do not like the idea
of having my devalued score compared to non devalued
scores after im gone. Thats putting old rotten apples
together with fresh new apples and asking which is
the better apple, not a fair comparision. If your
not gonna keep the score fresh, toss the old rotten
apple out.

And if the current system does level off, then whats
the point, if its not tossing the old people out,
why does it even exist?

Reply #57 Top
Good point Staffa.
I think that my action prove it. Its me former Sergey Pakhomov. I have just started as new player. It was not fun to throw away all my games medals, titles etc. But I dont see other way to explain that the current system is ill.

If I submitted one more similar game my score will be 19106 score no 5.
If 3 more games - score 27020 - silver medal, 8 more - gold medal. And this just for usual crippling medium. This game was finished in 2209 dec with pop 3200 and all tech researched.