The Great Government Health Care System

Gotta point out, the post office here works on Sundays now. Not sure of that's nation wide but it is here in Florida. Or at least in West Palm Beach.

Love the photo.

I'm sure a few JU regulars and neighbors from the north would disagree. They love their national heath systems. This LINK is for them.

not in my part of Florida, they don't.   And not anywhere else I've ever heard of.  So gotta wonder why Palm Beach? 

Your post is fairly ironic.  The giant lines of people waiting to get health care?  You can already find it in the United States.  It doesn't get much coverage, though.  Did you know that medical aid charities now consider the United States to be a "disadvantaged country" and send aid workers to treat the uninsured and underinsured in America?

This week in Los Angeles they set up an emergency treatment center in a stadium, at 4 am in the morning the day they were opening there were thousands if not tens of thousands of people waiting in line to get health care.  Many of the people who were there had insurance but couldn't afford the co-payments and deductibles for their insurance.  These were "lazy people" they were honest hard working Americans who were trying to make ends meet.

Frankly, you should be ashamed of your snarky attitude and gross ignorance.

Let's see... the OP posts an article about an area cutting medical support and another member sites a place where there is not enough care and cries foul! What line in any of the Obamacare proposals does it promise more doctors and nurses? Common sense would dictate that there will be even less to go around, and even more cuts or rationing. Nowhere did the OP mention the persons in need of care as lazy or question their eligibility.  The photo what obviously a parody (from the depression I believe). Most of the other posts talked about the post office. INO the shame (and source of ignorance) is misdirected. Too early to assume if it's "hope and change" defense mode.

I would say the true irony lies in that very defensive statement.

Nice story! There are thousands of similar stories in the U.S under which HMO's listed a patients care as "experimental" and therefore have refused treatment or refused to pay.

But you know what? Living in Canada my whole life, I have -NEVER- encountered a single fellow countryman who had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills. I have -NEVER- encountered someone who had to wait six months or longer for critical care. Why? Because under our healthcare system, those that need care right away, get it.

There's a wonderful little story about a Canadian woman who was diagnosed with a brain tumour in Canada but then told she had to wait six months for surgery. So, she sold her house, went to the States and paid about $ 90,000 to a prestigious U.S hospital and voila! no tumour. Now, she's currently on tour in the States talking about the evils of our Canadian healthcare system.

But, there's a catch. Yes, she was promptly diagnosed in Canada.... and the prognosis was, that she had a -benign cyst-. Yes, there was something in her head, but it was not dangerous to her or harmful to her in any way. It was because of this fact that yes, she was put on a waiting list to have it removed. So, the news story that was blared across the States was a supposed example of someone with a terminal condition being forced to wait six months. The reality was that someone with a legitimate yet completely benign condition was being treated in accordance with the seriousness of her condition.

Meanwhile, folks who needed neurosurgery right away, got it.

But, let's take a quick look-

Canadians pay much less per capita for healthcare through taxation than Americans do. Why? Because in Canada we don't have a middleman (HMO) in between us and the doctors taking 30% for profit.

We have longer lifespans

We have less serious illnesses and chronic conditions than Americans do during said lifespans

We have lower infant mortality rates.

We pay much less for the exact same medication you pay much more for.

By just about every metric around, we pay much less and are much more healthy than Americans.

And the real kicker? When we hit 65 years old, the government covers everything for seniors healthcare. That means I'll pay bupkiss, which is a huge burden I won't have to worry about when living on fixed income.

MEANWHILE, there are well documented cases of retirees in the States getting greeter jobs at Walmart or bagging groceries  at the age of 70 or older just so they can pay for things like heart medication. Cause you know that fixed income and "co-pay" plans for seniors in the States don't have any holes, right?

And, most importantly, I'll never have to worry about things like this happening:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32484021/ns/health-health_care/

Let me do a quick recap for you:

Man's wife get's suddenly ill. Man takes wife to HMO approved "in-network" hospital (they have health insurance, are part of the group who have coverage)

Hospital is unable to handle the situation (reason uknown, too busy, not enough doctors on, insufficent experience on shift?) and tells man to take wife to hospital X. Man takes wife to hospital X, they treat her right away but 17 days later she passes away.

A few weeks later, man, who had coverage and was following the instructions of the staff at the "in-network" hospital, receives a $ 75,000 dollar bill. The reason why he was charged? Because his wife was treated in a hospital that was out of network and not approved by the HMO.

Now, the man thankfully had the bill excused, but that was after he pulled out all the stops and fought tooth and nail with the insurer. If he hadn't gone to such lengths to fight the HMO, (as many folks don't, just shrug and take it) he would have lost his home and had to declare bankruptcy.

As a Canadian, I will never, ever have to worry about that. But if you want a good metric to go by? Find a survey in which most Canadians, or Brits, or Japanese, would rather have a privatized system like the U.S over our current socialized system.

You won't find one. Because by and large we are happy with a system that is non-profit and universal, rather than a system in which the wealthy get gold-plated treatment while the less well off have a frayed net with some VERY big holes, or no net at all, to catch them.

If our systems are so terrible, one would imagine that popular sentiment in Canada, France, Germany, U.K (well, pretty much all of Europe) Japan, Australia, etc, would all be screaming for privatized healthcare.

But we aren't. Every major industrialized country except for the United States has some form of universal healthcare. While you tell horror stories of "socialized medicine", the rest of the modern world is looking on the U.S with pity, not with awe.

For purposes of clarification - HMO's were created by our government, were heavily subsidized by our government, were encouraged (required) by our government to adopt highly restrictive practices to 'control costs' while required to cover a boatload of non-essential services, are regulated by our government, and have been the field trials of 'managed' (read 'universal') health care.  They've done exactly what our government has wanted them to do.

Now proponents of expanding the HMO model to all of healthcare are using the government-created HMO's as examples of how bad our system is.

That's some irony.

Art your arguments often amuse me I must say (in a good way of course). I find the liberal mind quite fascinating. I see you are very proud of Canada's health statistics (and understandably so), since I see you quote them so often. Here's a statistic for you, the life expectancy for US black males was 68.9 (75.9 for black women, 2003 CDC numbers). All your arguments assume a one for one, but we both know that isn't exactly true is it?  

In 2005 the black population in the US was 39.7 million (or 13.4%). Now I don't know how many represent black men, for the sake of argument lets say 1/3 or 13.3 million.

The entire current population of Canada (2009 and according to the Canadian population clock http://www.statcan.gc.ca/edu/clock-horloge/edu06f_0001-eng.htm ) is 33,756,118 or about 6 million persons less than the entire 2005 US black population.

Now how many of the Canadian population is black? According to the 2006 census by Statistics Canada, 783,795 Canadians identified themselves as black or 2.5% of the population. Seems your numbers are showing to be a bit skewed when one digs only slightly deeper. It could be just the white Canadian liberal elitist's are color blind and don't see the intricacies of the statistics they flaunt. I believe if in your considerably whiter world, you compared people of similar background, the numbers would be somewhat closer. Care to discuss the US Hispanic population (which is larger than the US black population) and also have a life expectancy shorter than their white counterparts?

I'd love to go into some of your other "facts" but I consider myself mostly a commentator, I'm not mich into arguing with true believers. If that's want you want for Canada that's fine, I'll say no thanks, from my perspective for the US. You will however find a large supply "takers" among our more liberal ranks. The bottom line is stats can say want ever you want them too. The informed will dig a bit farther. Now this reply is getting too long and boring.

One last thing since you didn't like the non-partisan US link I provided, here's one (and much more recent) from your own country.

LINK

Here's a teaser: "Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press."

Perhaps a nice tax increase will solve the problem.

Well if you want to quote MSNBC lets be fair and balanced.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/30/canada-sees-boom-private-health-care-business/

Here's your recap: "Facing long waits and substandard care, a growing number of Canadians are willing to pay for health treatment, leading to a booming private business in Canada -- a country often touted as a successful example of a universal health system."

How long until you're 65? Good luck waiting for that ponzi scheme to pay off, hope you're saving just in case. 

Notice how they don't actually respond to the article posted. 

As far as the OP goes?  Pfft!!

I live in Kingston, Ontario Canada.  All the same cutbacks happened here a few years ago.  In fact, we lost a complete hospital. (we had 2, now we have 1)  It just shut down due to cutbacks.  At the same time I was have a minor health issue.  I had to have hernia repair surgery done. 

The original doctor's appointment took only 24 hours from booking it to sitting in the doctor's office being examined.  My doctor then referred me to a hernia specialist at the one remaining hospital in Kingston.  Four days later I was sitting in his office where he confirmed that I had a hernia and that an operation was necessary.  Three weeks later I was in the one remaining hospital in Kingston being prepped for the surgery. 

In under a month I went from noticing the telltale bulge in my pelvic area to having the bulge dissappear and a patch in it's place, with only a 3 inch scar to indicate that anything was ever wrong in the first place. And all of this during major cutbacks to the health care system in Ontario.

Total out-of-pocket from first doctor's appointment to final operation?  Approximately 5 dollars in gas going to and from the various appointments and the surgery.  Hernia repair surgery in the US can run anywhere from 8 to 20 thousand dollars. 

BTW, I also work at a place that has full disability coverage so during the 3 weeks I took to recover I still got paid my full salary.  

Wonder if it would be so quick if you were 70? Got to keep the taxpayers healthy and back to work asap. Did the government pay your salary or your employer? If the later, no big deal, many employers in the US do this, we call it short-term disability.

The hernia became aggravated at work and so I was able to claim for Workers Compensation. (government)  They covered 85% and my employer covered the remaining 15%.

When I was 16 back in 1978 my legs where crushed in a farming accident. My employer paid into workmen's comp, so I was able to collect for a couple of months. I think I earned about $2.25 an hour then. The harvesting season was almost over and last year of school about to start back up anyway, so it extended my pay considerably for a bit. My employer paid my entire hospital bill. I never signed any papers accepting or declining health care or insurance.

There is a better way and it can come with a bill that passes with votes of 75% of all representatives and it will actually address the actual problems in healthcare without creating a nightmare for all those with insurance today. If the democrats get there way, our country is in very big trouble and we will be broke in ten years (if we are already not broke today with spending like stimulus and clunkers and bailouts)

http://www.caringuk.com