Queen of Thorns

A good Thread, I like it. I dunno why, but I love QoTs for her Shamblers. Not that they are effective, but the line damage, and look are cool .

Yes, QoT needs the Uproot ability changed to handle other things then just towers. I find something that gets to the enemy base quicker, is a good thing, but in this game, its not techically over (like DotA). More often then not, it keeps going. After which the ability is nigh on useless. Hitting other things with it would be a step in the right direction.

QoTs mana usage is high, Hp low. This is a bad combo all around. using mana to keep you alive, is bad, because then you spend it on your self, then on useful things. When you got items to up your hp AND/OR mana and you still cant get anything done, is REALLY bad.

I feel that Shamblers(offnote: and Yetis) are useless as hell. Although you can mulch the shams, they still are not useful outside that. Uping the Damage, and the Hp is a good idea. Something I also thought up was that the Shamblers attack sould not stop at the target, but keep going till max range, allowing you to hit things behind them. This would make Shamblers more viable as they can take minion waves a lot quicker.

Her Damage Spells dont do enough of it, and cost way to much, to be effective in combat as they stack up to other abilities. Uping Damage or lowering cooldown/mana cost would help a ton.

Make her a bit fast Id say, shes slow as is, jsut uping it some can help in survivability.

(thats it for now, as others discuss, I will add input)

 

Being an avid queen player, I think that her spells are just fine the way they are. Her spells do a very good amount of damage, not too little as mentioned by Reaver. You have to understand that both of her spike abilities are AoE, not single target. Ever harrassed creep on Cataract with Ground Spikes? It's pretty OP tbh.

 

 

Her massive AoE capabilities and just as massive seige capabilities make up for this though. At mid levels minions + uproot + ground spikes will tear down a tower in seconds, while still maintaining a decent getaway option if it's needed. (Bramble Shield/Speed Trink/Speed Increasers)

 

 

Shamblers can be very powerful with the right gear / build, especially since they also add to the Queen's AoE power, you can't forget that they AoE(straight line) attack.

 

 

Something you're not thinking about though, is that if they changed this to be able to affect PCs QoT builds would change completely. Instead of the set builds that we know work (very well) QoT players would be forced to either decide to balance another high cost damage spell to do just a little more damage, or wait and hold out until higher levels. If uproot were changed to be allowed to be used on PCs (even though I think it should be able to be used on Rook :p) they would have to tone down QoTs other damaging spells to counter balance it. Three attacks would be too much, especially with the debuffs the other two provide.

 

Also don't agree, her two spike wave spells have a very good radius and Uproot is able to be cast far enough away to not take tower damage. I would agree with this only to a point, and that would be increasing the range on Uproot so that Fortresses cannot attack within the range that Uproot is able to be cast. Would be cool, but again, not needed.

So if all is fine by you, why does most of the people think shes under par. And still underplayed...

 

2: the use of mana for doing any combo of these is quite high, you hp is still low. getting items to help out will still not be enough. I can see you points, but compared to what other Demigods can do, shes under par by a good margin.

3: people usually expect a shield

4: because of three, any other abilities drain mana, and possibly life (as the aim for you). altough I wont deny her ability to stay alive, shes still un naturally squishy, and easy to kill with the right moves.

Creeps aren't a threat and because she can kill them fast doesn't make the spells op. Torchbearer has AoE's that do more damage and the damage of both max level wave and spikes is just barely more than a max level fireball, which costs half the mana and can get targets even if they move out of the initial range. The extra "bonuses" of said spells do not make up for the lack of damage - feasible for a group counter, but unimpressive on a whole.

Massive? 1275 damage for both spikes and wave at max level. Again, that is just barely more than a max level fireball and this is assuming you can get that high in a game that could very well be over before that point. Sure, spikes hits everyone in a radius, but wave only affects a line which is just as easy to dodge as to actually connect. You're also over exaggerating the effects of combining spells to take down a tower. They will not go down in seconds - Rook's towers, maybe. You also need to switch forms to make a getaway with bramble shield and the money/mana necessary to do all of that extra stuff, which I think is just to much wishful thinking. Queen by no means generates the amount of money necessary to stay competitive on an equal scale to other DG's. Hero kills make money and she simply can't do it without some serious help and/or luck.



Key words in bold. Shamblers also get killed quickly in the late game without said items. Where is all this magical money coming from that you build such an awesome Queen with?

Of course the builds would change. The build that she is relegated to now is "get bramble shield as high as possible to support allies", because it is the only useful thing she can do the entire game to some efficiency. And here is that talk of "overpowered" Queen spells again. Puh-leeze. Torchbearer has three fire attacks.

Her spells have a horrible radius and require her to get into a situation that she very well could not get out of based on the low health she is almost certain to have because she is forced to stack mana items like no other character. I also still can't believe anyone would try to defend Uproot. I had to cast it upwards of 4-5 times to take down a single tower somewhere between levels 7-10. While I'm focusing on Compost and Uproot, I'm gimping my minions health/armor, stacking mana items instead of minion items, furthering their deficiency and in no way will I have a comparable and effective damage spell to compete with other DG's.

I'm glad you like your character so much, but the facts are on my side: she is the least played character for obvious reasons - she is gimp and I can guarantee that I can find more people supporting that idea than you could find supporting your claim that there is nothing wrong with her. Out of the 10 games I've played in the last day or so, I've seen one other Queen. That's pretty convincing to me.

Just joined a game and was kicked for choosing Queen. How amusing.

Why is it that every time one of these threads comes up there is always someone defending Queen.

Kaduos said it pretty much. The only way she can be decent is with boatloads of cash. Which doesn't happen, because she's the only demigod that is incapable of getting kills.

If you want to support your team, play Sedna. You'll never go back, I promise.

I'm sorry mate but i whole-heartedly disagree.  I start out with banded and scaled helm and i don't go back and buy anything for quite a while in most matches.  ANd once I go back I just buy unbreakable and monks.  Just like with ANY DG in the game, it's a matter of knowing how/when to use your powers.

I've played against PLENTY queen players that will 'over shield' or use ground spikes too much and have NO mana, and I can honestly say that I don't put myself in the perdicament.

Also, I've played sedna, i thoroughly enjoy playing sedna.  I routinely go back to queen though b/c i personaly think she's serverely underestimated and that gives the good queen players a HUGE advantage.

Even so, you can't deny that she's the most mana-dependent demigod in the game. Torchbearer is the only one who comes close, really.

The fact is you HAVE to be conservative with her, because everything she does costs a ton of mana. But if you're not using your abilities, what are you doing? Auto-attacking. With the weakest auto-attack in the game. Whoopie. It's either that, or stack mana items. In which case, enjoy having no health or minions.

Shamblers are useless.

Uproot is useless.

Compost is useless.

Shield is great. Ground Spikes is good. Spike Wave is decent, but it also happens to cost a whopping 1250 mana when maxed out. What the hell is that? 1250 mana for 650 damage (at level 15!) and a 5 second slow?

So we have two good abilities and one "meh" ability. Late game, she just stops becoming relevent. Even shield starts to become useless. At least with Sedna, you can cleanse debuffs, which remains helpful even as 1500 HP is becoming trivial.

And then there's the added hassle of form-switching. And she's squishy. And she's a miserable duelist. And she's slow.

Shield is good. I'll give you that. Great, even. Especially early game, it's really good. But my god, QoT just has so much working against her that I can't see how anyone can continue to argue that she's on par with the other seven demigods.

It's hilarious to me that some people think nothing is wrong with this character and are content with mediocrity. Such a rarity to find a person willing to defend AGAINST buffing a weak, under-achieving character. Even with the "different playstyle" argument aside, this character should be able to effectively do more - it's completely evident with her mix of different abilities - but she will apparently, always and forever, be neglected and relegated to being a bramble skank.

Paperkat, if you think you're a good QoT player and use Uproot, then I am sorry if I can't take you seriously. The same goes for Sedna players who think Yetis are awesome. Also, your stats and game names (3vs3 only NOOBS) speak for themselves.

 

Fact: Regulus and Unclean Beast are played about 3 times more often than QoT, the rest about 2 times more often!

 

It's some kind of vicious circle that because so much about QoT is completely useless (Tribute, Compost, Uproot), much less people play her which results also in much less people who actually demand that the developers should do something about it.

If nothing is done about the QoT, more and more people will abandon playing this "support" Demigod and just go for "killer" Demigods (like the new Demigod, who seems to have very limited "team" skills). And imho this would be rather disadvantageous for this "team" game.

Sorry. You're not finding the next "OP" strategy with Queen of Thorns. Time to move on.

hah, yeah. Because I played in a game with a friend who was new to the game, I'm bad for joining it..nice logic.

I think Queens who don't use Uproot are rather dumb, why wouldn't you get it? I don't touch it until higher levels, but still.

 

 

Creep isn't a threat..? Have you ever played conquest or tried to level in a game? You kill creep for levels, and with no creep for your creep to fight, they're instead attacking towers or other DGs. Creep wins games in end game, taking creep out of the picture helps your team a lot, as long as you don't exp steal.

 

 

You need to play Queen more, then. QoT can fare well against other DGs as long as you play it safe. She's not a DG killer, that's for sure. If I get caught mid game with a beast or reg on my tail I'm probably going to die, it's all about retreating and using your skills to their full potential. I do agree that she is the squishiest out of the DGs, but not underpowered. And..Uproot-GS-minions will take down towers extremely fast, at low levels it's not so quick, but mid game it's extremely lethal.

 

 

Most minions get killed decently quickly in end game anyway. I'll agree to the point that I think they should have a little more HP/Armor stock, but you do have the opportunity to summon FOUR at once, once they've all died. I've never had a money problem with queen unless I'm going all seige, so I don't really know where you're coming from on that one.

 

 

You can't compare TB to QoT, they're two completely different DGs with different roles. That would be like me comparing Queens low HP and armor to that of Rooks. If your teammates are relying on you to keep them shielded then they are not good teammates. Bramble shield is a great tool for getting someone out of a jam, or helping against tower seige in early game, not as a constant safe guard. TBs three fire attacks don't A) Slow DGs, Lower their armor (applicable for seige, creep and DG killing).

 

Ground spikes radius is fine imo, but perhaps a tiny increase in it's radius would be nice. You have to remember though that ground spikes is able to be used in melee range of a tower, and lowering that tower's armor gives you a huge increase in your auto attack. And for uproot, you shouldn't even HAVE it until you're in the teens. You have opinions and skewed facts on your side. QoT is the least played imo because she's the hardest to play effectively. I'm not saying that other DGs are easy per say, but just that balancing QoTs pros and cons is much more of a task.

Shes not played because she is underpar, theres no damn contest here. To player her effectively you need to use Bramble, and yes, expecting a shield is bad imo, but when its the only decent thing shes got, its sad.

Uproot does good damage to towers, but by the time you get it, the most prominate towers are gone, and other DGs can tank them fine, so its a waste.

Summoning four minions at once doesnt do anything, a few AoEs and they die, easy. If you invested money into hp minon items, then your denting yourself. Only good thing here is walking Hp potions, they dont do much in terms of damage, and pathing is horrid (for most Minions actually)

The pay off of using 2 spells for a LOT of mana isnt good, many DGs have spells or abilites that chew through DGs/Towers/Minions with ease, better then her.

The two attacks she has needs damage buffs. Balancing Cooldown and Mana go with it.(swaping any three for that saying is good as well)

 

Not attacking, but why would you not want QoT buffed? If you say "because the she will be OP" or something else (not an attack) then fine, we balance it later, but keeping her gimped isnt a good thing. Your not the only player that players her a lot. I do too, and find that she isnt good at much, too squishy, relies on hp/mana items to much. We got to change her, the fact that shes underplayed doesnt mean shes shes hard to play effectively. I would put favor points down (see what I did there? :D) on the fact that shes been played a lot by good players, and they found out shes not effective at all in higher end play. Or else this topic wouldnt be here. Buffer her, then change as needed.

all i can say is buff some skills of hers, change the functionality of some if needed.

Look who's talkin'.

Don't even respond to Paperkat, he's most likely a Troll. Look at his games ("noobs only"; 30% win percentage).

first off queen is supposed to have super expensive spells, that is her weakness. And second, uproot is a amaizng for devastating buildings early. Dont get me wrong, her minions are very UP, but she still has her uses. Shes is a great seige support dg. I admit all around she does need some buffin.

Ya ya this is old but idc, I tried sedna and hated playing her so you just broke the promise.