Bill Clinton, a Real American Hero?

We don't know the backstory yet.  I heard one report that it had all been arranged ahead of time by BO's administration (presumably the State Department) & that Bill simply provided cover.  Whatever the backstory (and we may never know), I'll give Bill props for whatever role he played in obtaining their release.

I doubt seriously that we had to make any substantive concessions to the Ill One, so chaulk one up for BO.  First thing I've felt good about praising the guy for in a long time, if ever (to paraphrase Michelle).

I know what you mean, like I said, I'm happy they are back in the US. I would never want someone to have to suffer the laws of a country like N. Korea, still I tend to be a believer that if you break the law you should be punished if caught. I can't just ignore punishment just because they are from my country.

Clinton did a good thing, if Obama was involved in some way, I'm glad he didn't get all the props. he doesn't deserve it as far as I'm concerned. As for not giving and substansive concessions, just giving them something to gloat about or make it seem like we are making deals with people like the President of N. Korea.

I'm curious, why is that. Is it because you feel they're inhumane, harsh, et al.?

Duh.

The whole thing probably was arranged ahead of time and Clinton took the lead because it allows the State department to pretend it wasn't involved and we (the USA) was coerced or made any concessions.  I am glad they are back, too, but KJI got what he was desperate for and never got from Bush...recognition...center stage...status as a world player. 

And there is the history there, too.  The Chinese and North Koreans are quite fond of the former president since he made it possible for them to obtain a lot of the technology they needed to make those rockets go straight. 

Hmmm, inhumane describes it just about right. I'm sure your probably looking to throw the whole waterboarding thing in here but last I checked we don't torture people for crossing the boarder illegally. If anything, the only difference between jail and the outside is the size of the jail vs the size of the world and in some cases people inside jail live a luxurious life compared to homeless people. So, now that I have satisfied your curiosity, it's time you satisfy mine. What was the point of your question? I find it strange anyone, even you, would somehow make it seem as if the US is somehow inhumane, harsh, et al considering all the illegals in the country we are aware of. Please enlighten me.

i'm sincerely disappointed yall are wasting such an auspicious opportunity here. 

after all, those women worked for al gore's network on top of which, they're journalists. 

over the past several years, i've read a number of articles describing casual, almost friendly encounters between north korean military personnel and civilians of non-north korean persuasion along that same border area during the course of which said civilians trade exotic stuff (like food) to soldiers for souvenirs (like milirary ensignias, parts of their uniforms, etc.) often at the guards' invitation.

so why were these two captured--if, in fact, they didn't just surrender or something? 

it's no secret kim jung il has aspirations to be an acclaimed film director.  so isn't it at all possible this whole thing was engineered to provide him with the opportunity of a lifetime?

how difficult could it be for kim's henchmen to access the plane while everyone was distracted by the diplomatic dog-and-pony show?  in minutes they could easily have installed enough microcams to turn it into a flying big brother house and provide kji with 15 hours of candid footage--far more than necessary to create his opus "mire high crub" starring birr crinton, monica rewinsky and gennifer frowers.

with that kinda fusion and fission, who needs nukes??? 

jeez, i almost left out the best part.  not only does bill come outta this whole thing a winner...he gets to show hillary up at the same time.

I have to admit, that does sound funny. Oh lord, I actually found something KB said funny. Now I know something is bad.

What, exactly, was your point with this?

Wow, and I thought I made an ass out of myself and went off on a nonsensical tangent last night... >_>

My reason, other than and secondary to curiousity, is because I always thought you were the law abiding kind of guy; meaning you believed in if you broke the law, then you do the time. Or does that only count in the US? I just am concerned because, while I do admit his systems is extremely fucked up, if we (nation/people/etc.) just shrug off their law system....it could create the precedent that we don't have to follow their - or any - laws. Granted, there's a difference between us following Kim Jong Il's laws (With punishments like death for singing, or whatever) and say that of England or France, due to the...more humane foundation witht he latter, but, to me at least, it still sets a precedent that just doesn't sit right. Are we to set ourselves up with special rights and priviliges? Just a thought.

Be well, ~Alderic

Everything kb says is funny.

Apology for what, exactly? Maybe just that the women crossed the border accidentaly?

Oh my God, you mean we actually apologize for shit we do wrong? Now that's just scary; Gawd forbid it happens again, we're perfect.>_> \sarcasm

I guess it doesn't matter that it seems -at least from what I've read - like the journalists entered the country without a visa (i.e. illegally). That isn't to say I feel they should be killed for such things, but...they broke a law. What do we do again, with those who enter our country illegally? Oh right.

>_>

Be well, ~Alderic

Bill didn't have to rescue the girls or do anything else at all to have his stock soar. All he needed to do was sit back and let us learn to appreciate him in the era of Obama. Heck, I even appreciate Carter a little bit more each day. Setting aside all Carter's obvious bias and liberal incompetence, at least he was an honorable man, unlike Obama.

Care to expand on that?

~Infidel~

What?

 No, I do not.

All right. *shrugs*

AJ, you may want to read the second post on this article. I am all for people being punished for being dumb enough to break any law from any country, but considering all they did was cross the boader and we over here don't seem to thing illegal immigrants are criminals and we actually feed, clothe, educate, provide medical care and forgive them, I have to wonder why do Americans have to be treated like we were the monsters of the world? I don't know where you get the notion we want special treatment for being Americans although we already get special treatment. terrorist already kill us just for fun, cut our heads off, kill us with bombs strapped to their chest or EDI's. I don't get you, I could swear you actually look to disagree with me all the time.

Come on AJ, stop with the silly questions. If you find even that response to hard to understand maybe you are hanging out on the wrong website.

Yea, because everytime an American breaks a law anywhere around the world we go to the gpv't to apologize, just like they do when ever a foreign person breaks the laws here right? KJI defied our country with missile test and nuclear test and we go to say I'm sorry because 2 Anmerican journalist were too stupid for their own good. WTG USA.

We? What do you mean by we? Since when is the US responsible for the action of Americans outside the US boarders? You have got to be kidding me, now we have to reign in every misbehaving American so as to avoid offending other countries. I can see why we are turning into a nanny state, people in this country are definitely children who need big brother and big daddy to take care of them cause they too stupid to take care of themselves.

We let them stay and give them benifits.

All right, so we don't apologize. Guess what, they're probably gonna still there, and they're still gonna face the punishments of 12 years hard labor. Then what? You said it yourself, you don't agree with the the punishments. You even said you wouldn't want to anyone to have to deal with NK punishments, yet we shouldn't get them out and/or apologize for this sort of thing even if it means we can get them out? Just doesn't make sense. Either you say that they get what they get for their stupidity, or you do not get them out. You can't have it both ways, at least that's what I was raised to believe.

That aside, my point was that our nation needs to be willing to apologize when we are wrong, our people are wrong, etc. Because, you know we are sometimes. We need to just deal with it. We're not perfect; we're not invincible; we're not

Consistancy, Charles.

Are you for or against illegal immigration/illegal border entry? You've always come across as one that is in favor of sending them back if they came in illegally. So, either you are for that in general, or it's a double standard  and you don't seem to want to apply to ourselves when our own people cross into other countries illegally. That's where I'm going with this.

"All they did," may have been simply crossing borders/into illegally, but you know....all some immigrants do with our country is cross borders. Yet we villify them and ship them back, or do something about it, or punish them. So, why should we not hold ourselves accountible when we do it? Where's the justice or respect for laws there?

>>But illegal immigrants do it here and we...<<<

 Charles, that's a total cop out; it's an excuse.

Oh sure, it's my favorite thing to do.

OK, let me say it one more time to see if you get it this time. If you are dumb enough to break the law and get caught you should be punished. Plain and simple. But keep in mind we are not talking about the US, England, Australia or Canada. We're talking about a country who will punish you with 12 years of hard labor for "crossing the boarder illegally" although i would bet my life all this was done just because they were Americans. This was not justice or fair, this was done on purpose, an excuse to poke at the US for bitching about nuclear and missile test That is why I would never want anyone to be punished by a country like this because humane is not exactly part of their vocabulary when you are seen, not as a rgular criminal, but as an enemy of the state. Is this clear enough now AJ? I believe in punishment in a fair justice system, and don't BS me with any "how do you know it was not fair?" questions.

In English one more time. Break the law, be punished, but crossing the border does not equate to 12 years of hard labor. We send people back, we barely send them to jail, hell, we want to make them citizens after they are here most of the time.Where are the Cuban, Mexican, Dominican, Hatian, Jamaican, Chinese representatives seeking to have their people be sent back because we are locking them up and punishing them with inhumane punishments?

"Oh, but they sent them back" is what you are probably thinking about saying. But no, we asked for them, we probably made some kind of a deal with them and then they asked for Clinton to come and get them. How come we are not getting the Americans arrested in Iran? How come the Gov't is not tryng to get every American arrested outside the US out and back to the US? Come on AJ, stop BSing me here. You are smart enough to get what I am saying and you double reading games won't work with me. I know what I said, I was very clear, it's all posted on this article. I'm glad they are home because I am not a cruel person, after all they are still Americans and obviously I will be partial to them because of that. But to go around saving every American just because they are Americans is ridiculous, because people should be responsible for their own actions, unless the country punishing them is taking advantage of the situation to strike at the US and punish someone severely for a minor infraction, such as crossing a border illegally.

Uh, AJ, where did I say that. I can't find it anywhere.

That much i am sure.