Goodbye to Michael and Farrah

*sighs*

With all due respect KFC...come on...lets just - for once - leave that question alone and mourn his passing.

RIP Little Mikey

Be Well, ~Alderic

Come on girl, I was looking forward to heaven you know.

Heh

Wasn't gaga over either one (liked Cheryl Ladd more and pop music isn't on the top of my musical tastes) but R.I.P. to both.

was?  Does that mean you're not now? 

Sorry Lucas, I always think that no matter who dies.  I wonder what they're seeing and doing right now on the other side of eternity. 

me either really.  I never ever purchased one of Jacksons, albums, tapes, CD's etc over the years although I grew up with him right from the 60's. 

His heaven is probably being the towel boy at Boys Town, he's hell would be being the towel boy at the YWCA. OK, I know the guy just passed, and it is a tragedy. I get by with a little humor so shoot me., otherwise if you ever laughed at an MJ joke, don't be a hypocrite now.

Understandable, and to each their own, but it just seems...condescending a bit.

Be well, ~Alderic

I disagreed with you in the past KFC, but this is the first time you've just been flat dead wrong.

*Everyone* thinks about what happens after they die (not including young kids of course).   They just don't all come to the same conclusion you do.

actually kfc....i remember well when jerry falwell died, and you had absolutely no "wonder" or questions about where jerry was. in fact, on May 15, 2007 you said "i know jerry is celebrating right now" and credited it to the virtuous life you percieve that he has lived.

and while i don't think you are "celebrating his death" like some were when jerry died, i'm not sure that you are being entirely balanced here. reading this "tribute" and reading the jerry falwell "tribute" it is clear who's side you are on.

Sean, there is a big difference between Falwell and Jackson.  Falwell spoke about Christ every single day.  He led others to Christ every single day.  His whole life was focused on Christ. 

I spent alot of time at Jerry's church and University.  I have no doubt where Jerry is.  This man, lived, breathed and loved the name of Christ. 

I have not said one way or another where Jackson is spending eternity.  I don't know.  I didn't see any indication that he was living for Christ tho.  So I could guess.  I can only judge the fruit.  I can't judge his faith or lack thereof.   That's not being unbalanced.  That's being truthful. 

My opinion is that Jackson was very very talented.  He could have given God so much glory with his gift.  I don't see that he did that.  One things for sure.  He's in eternity now and I believe that means he is somewhere.  Now, it's between he and his maker. 

I don't think so.  I think some push it off until it's either too late or they just didn't get around to it.  You can't say "everyone"

Most people think they are invincible.  Most don't think that today could be their last day on earth. 

well, you may have no doubt. but that doesn't mean that others have different opinions. 

and as far as jackson goes, he was a pretty devout jehovah witness. take that for what it's worth. he was also pretty philanthropic, some say too philanthropic. he has been recognized around the world for his benevolence, especially for children. 

and where i'm not a big personal fan, i do know his music pretty well. and for the most part, i was pretty positive and good. 

as far as the charges that were alleged against him, i honestly have no idea. there were cases to be made on both sides. if someone held a gun to my head and demanded an opinion, i'd have to say i thought he was more eccentric and sometimes had an "arrested childhood development" thing about him more than i believe he ever molested any kids. but in this mixed up crazy world, anything's possible. 

and as far as "everyone" thinkin bout the afterlife. i think at least most people do. to say "everyone" might be hyperbolic, but i think you might be sellin some other folk short kfc. 

but opinions vary.

Whatever you think they are.

About Falwell?  Of course.  Opinions vary widely.  I'd have to ask tho, what are you basing your opinions on?  When I say that I believe JF went to heaven I'm basing it on the words of Christ and the scriptures which say that you can know a tree by the fruit it bears.   When one confesses Christ with his lips and believes in his heart that he was raised from the dead, he will be saved.  Jerry confessed this daily in both word and actions.   He spent his life furthering the gospel.  Granted, he wasn't well received by the secular world but neither was Jesus accepted by the secular world in his day either.  Two things here......either we set out to please man, or God.   Which did what?  Who  pleased God?  Who pleased man?   

He was in his earlier days but not sure if it spilled into his adulthood.  I'm very very familiar with this religion and if I didn't know it I'd never have guessed he was a JW.  I'm sure the JW's didn't appreciate Michael telling people (if he did) that he was a JW.  He didn't follow them or their tenants very well if he was.  As far as giving away money, that doesn't make one diff in where you spend eternity.  If it was based on this criteria then the rich stand a better shot than the rest of us, because then they could just buy their way into heaven.  I think he was probably a very kind, meek man.  Everything I've heard about him seems to indicate that.  But again, that doesn't gain entrance into heaven either. 

It's not about what you do, but about who you know. 

I actually saw something that made me sad about this on the news this morning.  In an interview with the dad the soundbite they brought to us was about him saying how his son was very very famous.  He went on to elaborate about Michael's fame and talent and how he was the most famous in the world.  I thought that to be a sad eulogy from a dad.  I mean, it seems as tho he was showing the world his conditional love for his son.  Nothing about love or the fact that he misses his son.  Michael had issues with his dad (and I could see why when I saw this today)  and I'm sure that had a lot to do with his eccentric and arrested childhood development. 

I don't know, haven't been there yet. 

kfc...we'll just have to agree to disagree here. lots of your info is innacurate above, and i don't even know where to start with it. 

and actually, the JW church bragged about him...they are the reason i know he's a witness. and actually, michael disassociated himself with them a few years back...that report i never did hear till after i wrote above. rumor has it that he "converted to islam" but no one ever verified it and there ae some reports refuting it. 

but anyway..to me, whatever lil club he belonged to is kinda irrelevant to me. the God i know doesn't care much either. if his heart was in the right place will probably matter more...and quite frankly, neither of us truly know that about anyone but ourselves. 

but to some, dogma and other crap is everything...knock yourself out...see ya in heaven if ya make the trip.

Come on everyone , no need to argue. Just raise your glass of Jesus juice and give a cheer. Whether you liked him or loathed him, does it really matter now? 20 or 30 years from now will be the real test of his popularity. Will we have MJ sightings, and impersonators in Vegas? Who knows. I personally kind of thought he fell off the face of the earth until his recent concert plans came about. The tabloids have at least 2 or 3 good years of MJ material and many residual years, hounding his kids and his estate, unfortunately. While I wasn't a fan, he didn't die at the top of his game. All his best music was out long ago. I can't say I'm the slightest bit familiar with anything current, and I'm sure I would have heard it if it was popular. James Brown, Elvis... those guys died between performances of active tour schedules. Their is already a generation that barely knows MJ, maybe just the eccentricities that made the news. For his true fans, there will be more than enough to last them.

"Well, what's wrong with sharing your bed? I didn't say I slept in the bed.  Even if I did sleep in the bed, it's okay." -MJ Dec 22, 1993

I don't know what info I put above is wrong......the JW's?....and that I'm only going by having belonging to the group and knowing other JW's along the way.  It's hard to believe they brag on him.  They pretty much are a religion about being very separate from the world.  They stand out as not being secular at all.  Even had one work for us and this was very evident. 

I noticed you didn't answer my question tho.  It's ok to say you don't know or that you just don't have an answer.....or that it's just your opinion.  It just helps me to know where you're coming from. 

Well I guess you've read me wrong Sean.  I'm the least concerned about religious dogma.  I spend alot of time fighting it.  It's all about having a relationship with God.  It's not about relgion but relationship.  I don't know what God you know, but there are two to pick from.    The God of heaven and the god of this world.   It sounds to me like you're saying you're going to heaven on your own terms, not the God of heaven. 

you might fight other's dogmas kfc...but over the past few years, it's obvious you create your own dogmatic rules and judgemental criteria...just like the lil attempt at a lecture ya give me above...you can save it. all i said was that i know God. and your analysis or judgment of that really doesn't mean a thing to me. but you do it, and i don't think you could stop if you tried. Liberty U programmed you well. 

i'm really not trying to sustain a fight here and my faith and your faith are actually quite irrelevant here. 

the point is that when falwell died, you announced it and spoke about it on other folks pages. i remember falwell and you being attacked and people saying or implying distateful things about a man that you obviously hold in high regard. 

i remember offering my "thoughts and prayers" and joining you in scorning those who would use the death to promote their "causes." i remember you thanking me and making claims about how if the shoe was on the other foot, you would simply offer condolences and not use death to promote your agenda.

and here...it is obvious, although you attempt to be subtle, that you are using this death to promote your beliefs instead of just offering UNCONDITIONED AND UNQUALIFIED condolences without further backhanded comments. 

and i'm kinda disapointed in ya kfc...i really believed you when falwell died. but you weren't saying goodbye to michael or farrah as your title imples...your title is just a teaser like one of those "mainstream media" outlets would use. you have no interest in saying goodbye, like when you wrote on these pages to say goodbye to others, but just wanted to use their death to promote your causes. 

and deception is deception...the ends don't justify the means. 

It seems to me Sean you're reading alot into what I said on this blog.  It was just a simple goodbye.  That was it.  Not promoting anything on this blog nor am I into deceiving anyone.    I find that very insulting to say to me actually. 

 I can't comment on where they will spend eternity because I don't know.   I think I've been very clear here on that.  I only know what they showed us on TV, and nothing, to me, spoke of how they gave glory to God.  In cases like these, I leave it in the hands of God.  But for those (like JF) who were very clear of their belief, yes I can celebrate their death in a diff way.  Now, if I said they went to hell, you would have a point.  But I didn't say that nor would I. 

I think you're trying to get me to equalize things here and say the same about Farrah and MJ as I did about Falwell and I can't do that. 

So you choose to criticize me. 

no, i'd just prefer if you would be a lil more intellectually honest and treat both deaths equally. cause you said it, we don't know. and i got news for ya...you have no idea where jerry is either. you do not know what is in his heart as a matter of fact. of course , your pompossness will cause you to deny this fact.....

ooh, i forgot..."facts" and organized religion generally don't mix. 

you can be insulted all ya want...it still is what it is. 

and yes, i criticzed it...and stand by it. 

i'm sure you and i will find common ground down the road, but i find your use of different people's deaths to promote various causes unilaterally to be quite distasteful. when someone dies...if ya can't say somethin nice, don't say anything is a rule i like to live by (concerning the deceased). raising rhetorical "talking point" questions is using their death for your agenda to me. 

like i said before, you aren't dumb enough to "go on the attack." you play innocent and subtle. nothing new to me. and your further comments have exposed what is really in your heart towards michael. 

as far as him "glorifying God" in his work here on earth. I saw plenty of it. if you didn't , maybe you just aren't looking in the right places. i can find it in his work, his words and his music. 

and concerning jerry...i don't see anything Godly about him whatsoever. i don't think his life had much at all to do with Glorifying God as much as it did with marketing God for his own purposes. 

but when he died, i offered nothing but sympathies, thoughts, prayers in a sincere manner. in fact, i remember tellin you and others we'd have plenty of time to hash out his deeds and misdeeds and so forth...then was the time for sympathy and mourning. just as it is time for that concerning recent departures and i wish you had the same respect that you expected others to have for you.

just my 2 cents ... you are responsible for your own change. 

How much change for two cents?

let's see I said: 

"My opinion is that Jackson was very very talented."

" I think he was probably a very kind, meek man.  Everything I've heard about him seems to indicate that."

So how does that expose me? 

No, the truth is you want me to say something that I can't say.  You want me to say that Micahel is in heaven.  I can't do that because I don't know.  You want me to equalize this and say the same about Jerry.  Sorry.  I'm looking at the evidence.  Jerry gave his life for the Lord. I was sitting right in front of him two weeks before he died.  His sermon was on death and how he was ready and that God only takes his servants to heaven when he's done with them.  I can give you the link if you'd like to hear the message.   Michael gave his life to the world.  Both are in the hands of God.  That's about as close as I can equalize them. 

Jesus said to be separate from the world.  Be in it, but be not of it.  Jerry certainly wasn't of the world.  Jesus also said the world will hate you like they hated me.  A servant isn't greater than his master Now, who was hated?  Michael or Jerry? 

Compare the two coverages.  Who got the greatest world glory at death?  How about when Princess Diana died?  Did you know that Mother Teresa died the same time?  Hardly anyone knew because she was given but just a blimp on the world radar screen because of Diana's coverage.  How about C.S. Lewis and John F. Kennedy?  Both died on the same day.  Who got all the coverage?  Do you even know who C.S. Lewis is? 

Well what did you see?  Did you see Jerry give so many scholarships away he almost broke Liberty University in the 80's?  His board had to tell him to stop giving away so many free rides.  He had to seek permission after that to some extent before giving any more away.   Did you see him give the poor waitress who was working at Applebees (with my son) a free ride just before he died?   He was on the cell before he came back to offer it to her.  He had to check with his board first.  He was a very very generous man. 

Did you see him give the little boy who hit a baseball into his yard a free scholarship as well even tho the boy was only about 9 years old?  Jerry wrote the note on the baseball. 

Did you see him take off his shoes and give it to a college kid who had no good shoes to wear because they wore the same size?   Have you ever talked to just one kid who went to LU and what he/she thought of Jerry?  They absolutely loved him. 

No, what you know about Jerry is what the Media had to say about him.  Did you read about the kid from Brown University who just published  about Falwell and LU?  He went to LU uncover for a semester to mock LU  and Falwell (this was just before Falwell died)  secretly by taking notes for his book.  Instead he actually said Falwell was nothing as he expected and neither was LU for that matter.  He too fell victim to the press and their hatred for Falwell and LU.  He now thinks about prayer and God alot more often and is looking for a church to attend.  What changed his mind?

Your bias is showing Sean. 

my bias? 

of course i have a bias here...and it is 100% irrelevant here.

the issue is your sliding your agenda into these faux obituaries. using someone's death to promote your agenda.

which you have done. 

end of story. 

anything more is pointless....like...

i put up quotes showing what a man of hate and ignorance he was....you say it's "all out of context" , claim it's all a product of the "big evil secular liberal media machine" that you have been conditioned to resistand put up anecdotes like above (and yeah, heard em all before)...big whoop.

you know how i feel, i know how you feel...and no minds are gonna be changed. 

*cough* Ad hominem *cough*

Be well, ~Alderic

no, it's not and you haven't proven your case.  It really comes down to I can't argue against opinion.  That's all this is.   It's your opinion that I'm doing as you say.  You won't take my word for it so what else can I say?  You want to believe what you want to believe.  So be it. 

exactly.  I'm going by facts, you're going by opinion.