aias aias

Game Balance and it's redress

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Game Balance and it's redress

Publishing statistics per demigod

from Demigod Forums

I know a lot of you don't think there aren't any balance problems, and I think that's fine. But in order to actually prove one way or the other, I'd like Stardock/GPG to do the following. Maintain and publish detailed statistics per demigod. kpd, gold, towers, favor, etc. As well, they should look at the configurations of the teams for any given map. Which demigod killed which demigod, what have you. I'm getting to the point where I'm getting tired of playing in games where the same demigod is beating me consistently. Yes I get your comment "Nerf whoever I keep dying against". I get the comment, I honestly don't care, for the sake of putting the issue to rest, they should maintain and publish those statistics. The stats maintained in pantheon are some amount helpful, but insufficient to really examine the issue. And if it's just that I'm terrible at it, then that's fine, but I want to know for certain so I'm not banging my head against a wall playing this if there's only a handful of effective demigods.

demigod
14,899 views 34 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Vladesch, reply 22

Quoting -Izzo-, reply 11You get your accurate and useful information by playing the game and talking with people (like on forums). Not by asking some statistic sheet from the developer, lol .
 

I think this is completely wrong. Statistic sheets will paint a much more accurate picture than just your own experiences in game or listening to people on a forum.

 

lol
End of Vladesch's quote

You are going to have to expand on that. I can't get it in to my head how in the hell the statistics the OP is asking for could be better in assessing balance issues than actual game exprience and exhanging opinions with other people who also have a lot of game exprience. Common sense should be on my side here, so you are going to have to explain how your view is right and mine is wrong.

Reply #27 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting InfiniteVengeance, reply 19
This would be possible the stats weren't FUBAR.  Since they are we cannot trust anything they might say or show.

At a certain point when they are confident they are actually working they need to wipe everything and start it fresh.  Then we can analyze how each hero is doing.
End of InfiniteVengeance's quote
You should look at abbot's thread in multiplayer, it may help explain...maybe, I'm not sure if it's the cause.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #28 from Demigod Forums Top

@ Izzo

 

none taken.  but thats not the case, there are def well played qot players out there who will roflstomp.  I invite you to play me during my predrinking tonite (circa 6-8pm central time) so we can put the competency question to rest. 
Reply #29 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting themadmanazn, reply 21
Stats are fine, I welcome them, but just remeber guys

1. Demigod is a team game, just because you aren't getting kills doesn't mean you aren't contributing

2. Noob magnets. I want a statistic on what characters people who just started tend to play. Lets say people who have played less than 10 games, what characters do they tend to gravitate to?
End of themadmanazn's quote
The mindset is wrong right now. Playing team games is...not what some people are used to.

Reply #30 from Demigod Forums Top
Player NameOverall RankExperienceEarned Favor PtsSpent Favor PtsPlaytimeWins/Losses
lethstang 14 1,733 30,035 12,935 7,057 minutes 132W / 74L

 

vs

Izzo

Rank: 11,612
Experience: 919
Favor Points Earned: 2,075

Total Games: 29
Games Won: 12
Games Lost: 17

Current Winning Streak: 0
Current Losing Streak: 1
Largest Winning Streak: 4
Largest Losing Streak: 2
Total Playtime: 1,087
Total Disconnects: 6
Izzo's custom ranking displayed as this is his best category.  See you soon. 

Reply #31 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting woppin, reply 20

For sure, you can get tendencies, but its going be have to be a really large table of data in order for you to draw any sort of conclusion.

I'm thinking that for every combination of team vs every combination of team on every map would need its own stat tracking, since the data isnt going to cross over terribly well, and once you've diluted the pool that much (That's a shitload of combinations) you are going to need to collect data for a long time before you have enough info to detect trends.

Theres also still things like the ability bug, minion exploit etc. You effectively need to reset your stats each time you make a major bugfix, or at least keep them separate.

Once the bugs are ironed out this stuff would make a nice addition. Are you thinking of what Valve did with TF2, with the "heat map" style death graphs overlaid on levels? That sort of info would definately be interesting for a game like DG (Which characters tend to die where, and after how many minutes of play) but I'm not sure it would help balance the game much. Food for thought nevertheless.
End of woppin's quote
There's a way to do it. You limit the games you take in information from. Only games wherein all players play the full game out do you take data (Or those that end in concession). As well, you gather stats for each player, each player keeps a record of themselves only that gets dumped to the hdd in segments, then at the end of the game the complete table is uploaded. This will give you results that are untarnished by some of the major bugs. As well, I don't agree that a huge data table is neccesary, I think even in the beginning it will give an indication where it's going. But I do think the best results are going to occur after some time has passed. And I want that, I want the OP/UP debate to subside until there's real data to suggest or even prove some of it. A heat map, sure, if they want to do that, it would be great, but I don't think it's as important.

 

Reply #32 from Demigod Forums Top

I can't get it in to my head how in the hell the statistics the OP is asking for could be better in assessing balance issues than actual game exprience and exhanging opinions with other people who also have a lot of game exprience.
End of quote

People lie. Boast. Exaggerate. Misunderstand. Miscommunicate. They have agendas. They have emotions which cloud thier judgement.

Properly handled and annotated numbers? Not so much.

Reply #33 from Demigod Forums Top

I dont know... I tend to play Reg/TBfire/Erb, in that order my time.  I have dominated with each of those, agianst all 8 demigods.  I have also gotten dominated by all 8 demigods while playing.

 

I think the game is relativly balanced.  Could it use some tweaks, yea.  I firgue after about 5 years the balancing issues will be worked out.  The reaso nit takes so long, is because the ballance issues are not drastic, so small corrections are needed over a long period of time.  

The only charictor i see as slighly more powerful than the rest is UB.  That is because of the of his speed in combination with spit/grap,sucklife rinse and repeate.  I think its perhaps a bit longer on the cooldown for one or the other, but nothing major. 

Reply #34 from Demigod Forums Top

  Queen of Thorns isnt right, something wasnt thought out correctly with her, or she was made with something else in mind.  People in charge of balance should solely play QoT instead of demigods which are regarded as very strong. 

 

  Her health, armor, damage, and rate of fire is pathetic.  Shield is powerful especially early game but its in a different form than her only other decent skill Ground Spikes.    

   Her other skills especially Uproot are just terribad.   They are poor skills to begin with but when you factor in thier high mana costs and fact that they require form switching to use its just abysmal.  

 

   If you are an awesome form switcher you can get QoT to work for you if you are able to get good at the early rush... provided you are on a map that allows an early rush, otherwise you are s.out.o.luck against a competent team.

 

               2 suggestions off the top of my head would be make shamblers fight in close melee and buff them a bit so when you fight in close you can mulch them effectively using thier aoe damage.    

               then for open form make uproot drain life like the rooks spell.

          maybe the devs just dont want QoT to be good otherwise everyone will be playing her to look at boobies