Left Wing Kook alert: Linda Rondstadt

We're all Hitlers

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-11-16-ronstadt_x.htm
from JoeUser Forums

I have friends that claim that the right is just as bad as the left when it comes to kooks.  Yet, when asked for specifics they vaguely allude to Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter or when really desperate some Christian religious zealot (as if being religious makes you right wing).

Yet time and time again we end up hearing left wingers singing the same hateful crap: Those of us who voted for Bush are stupid, moronic, unenligthened, and ignorant.

Today's example comes from Linda Rondstadt:

“People don’t realize that by voting Republican, they voted against themselves,” she says. Of Iraq in particular, she adds, “I worry that some people are entertained by the idea of this war. They don’t know anything about the Iraqis, but they’re angry and frustrated in their own lives. It’s like Germany, before Hitler took over. The economy was bad and people felt kicked around. They looked for a scapegoat. Now we’ve got a new bunch of Hitlers.”

6,741 views 32 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
"Yet time and time again we end up hearing left wingers singing the same hateful crap: Those of us who voted for Bush are stupid, moronic, unenligthened, and ignorant."

I received this in my email today from a good friend of mine. It pretty much sums up how left wingers feel about Bush and the election:

>FYI - H.L. Mencken's cynical prediction below has sadly come true. 52% of
>> these plain folks prevailed. Only morons would equate war, increased
>> poverty, a record deficit, and greater pollution with a "values" President.

>> RS
>>
>
>>> > "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents,
>>> > more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and
>>> > glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
>>> > desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright
>>> > moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)


Yes, I really do agree with Mencken. And with RS. Fact is, we do sing the this hateful crap, because we really, really do hate Bush, Cheney and the rest of those right wing morons now in office for the reasons so succinctly stated above. Yup, "morons" fits like a glove.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm going to jump in here and say . . . no, this is not how I feel about my fellow Americans.

There are reasons why I hold my point of view just as there are reasons why those who voted for Bush hold theirs. They are not ignorant or stupid or evil. I don't agree with their point of view, but I understand that different life experiences shape us all. Everyone is certain that their view is right and that they know what's best for America. I have no doubt that Bush supporters are convinced that their ideas are what's best for our country, and they promote them and vote on them out of love for our country. It runs both ways. However, they are the majority, and I believe in making the best of things whenever I can. I will continue to be cautiously optimistic.

Linda Rondstadt's and dabe's comments do not represent me.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Draginol:

This is the second time in 2 days you have personally spotlighted entertainers who represent no one but themselves saying things that reflect on no one but them. Neither story was worth the time or the space used. They are entitled to their opinion, we know that on principle you disagree and why.

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

So Dabe, you think I'm a moron?  Want to compare resumes?  Has it occurred to you that other people, of equal or greater intelligence might possibly be able to look at the same data and come to a different conclusion? What about toleration for diversity of thought?

That's why you keep losing. You guys have this unearned sense of intellectual superiority. An unearned arrogance that really alienates millions of Americans.  Every time I see some liberal imply that people like me are "dumb" I'm just astounded.  I have a snobby side too but I manage to keep it under control - most of the time. I am perfectly willing to accept that those who disagree with me simply came to different conclusions.  I think my resume speaks for itself.  To imply that I'm a moron is..well moronic.

I don't go around arguing that my opponents are "stupid", "dumb", etc.  I understand their point of view. I simply don't agree with their positions.

CrispE: I will determine what it is worth writing about, thank you.  I suggest you read Dabe's response.  Because what I was highlighting is the typical liberal attitude towards conservatives.

 

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
SEIG.... oh. Wait a tick. *checks for funny little mustache, red arm band* Nope. Definately not hitler.

Although the thought of scores of midget hitlers taking to the streets does frighten me...
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm afraid dabe, and those of like mind, are determined to keep their minds closed and to keep reciting the dogmatic mantra despite all evidence to the contrary. They are certainly free to do so, but their party will attract the support of fewer and fewer people the more they insult the intelligence of the electorate. Come to the table with ideas, argue them with dignity and respect, accept that others may agree or disagree on principle. They might stand a chance then, but only then.

Credit dabe for brazen honesty if you wish, but his reply here is pathetically sad.

Good article by George Will in Newsweek this week on this very subject - some of his stuff is too clever by half but he's dead on with this. I highly recommend it.

Cheers,
Daiwa
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Maybe Linda Rondstadt isn't a left winger singing hateful crap. Did you ever consider that maybe she is right? And maybe all the people who voted for Bush really are unenlightened and ignorant when it comes to the truth about Bush... Give Bush time, he'll prove it himself.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
You call left wingers "kooks". I call anyone who fell for Bush's rhetoric a moron. Same difference. So please, don't accuse me of being a snob, then saying you're not because you're controling it. Give me a break. Thank you RickWP. You know. I still think Bush should be impeached for lying to Congress, the UN, the American people.

Bush lied. People died. If you refuse to acknowledge that with all the evidence staring you in the face, then maybe you're not a moron, but just plain ............ what do you call someone who refuses to see and hear what's so evident? I dunno. It also seems to me that the only thing you can hang your hat on, drag, is the fact that Bush has saved you some money by cutting your taxes, as a businessman. But, by doing so, he has sunk the rest of this country, minus a few business people and other very wealthy individuals, into the worst deficits, the worst health care crisis, the worst educational funding mess, the worst National Park Service mess, etc. He's done nothing for this country except pander to the selfish. Yeah, that's it..... you're not a moron. You're just selfish.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dabe:

Your post is a diatribe: A litany of inarticulate complaints which does not substitute for meaningful solutions: Fusillades of endless griping is just one of the many reasons that caused kerry to lose.

The insult of begrudging a "selfish" businessmen, who provides you a forum at no charge for you to express yourself, highlights how the left chooses to engage the pressing political & social discourse of out time: by name calling.

Insulting hyperbole: Comparing the woeful economic conditions of pre-nazi Germany - the privation and starvation that persisted at that time - to the present America just goes to show how disconnected from reality you really are. When you go buy loaf bread today, I trust you won't be hauling the dough needed to purchase it in a wheel barrel. Try to appreciate your blessings.
Don't be like those Stalinist (the working class liberators/mass- murderers) pigs informing your suppossed intellect ... that runs wide & shallow. By the way, I thought this site was finished with you, or you with it. Try keepin' 'em promises, 5 cent. Peace out!

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Draginol:

Ahh....typical? Well, let's see. If you consider there are 50,000,000 Democrats then 2 people would represent 2/50,000,000 or .00000004% of the party. Now, statistically, I would say you would need at least 1% of the population of Democrats to make any kind of "typical" statement so you need to find 499,998 more statements to make even the weakest of cases.

The truth is that you want to say that these people fit "YOUR" liberal stereotype of Democrats, which, once again, we already know. But thanks for reminding us of what you think......
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

you're not a moron. You're just selfish.

He is so selfish that he provides this website for free so that people like you can come on here and say nasty things to him.  Yet, for some reason you think that is OK?

He's also so selfish that he looks at ways to increase the employee head count at his company even if we don't need everyone.  I'm glad he's so selfish- it has provided me with a stable, well compensated job that I have enjoyed for over 9 years.

Selfish?  That's just a joke.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
little_whip:

I almost think that was support for my argument. Thanks.

BTW: I am not arguing that Draginol has no right to post these links. (Draginol: Elton John bashed the President too. Is that your next article). I do think it an issue that defining Liberalism as a concept or Democrats as a group by what entertainers say is, at best, misleading and would go further in criticism but will leave it at that for personal reasons.

I have nothing but respect for what Draginol does in terms of JU and what Stardock has done in terms of Galactic Civilizations. I'm glad he is employing people and hope that the company is successful.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
The point here is that celebrities have a public stage from which to spout whatever they want, and our celebrity obsessed culture puts them on TV and in magazines all over. So what if they don't represent the majority of the left -- they're the ones that get heard. I had a similiar article about loud mouth preachers and how they were giving the evangelical right a bad name -- people like Linda Ronstadt are doing the same thing on the left.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
Dabe,

Mencken was a documented racist, homophobe and bigot. And you call us morons? Guess the yokes on you!
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

You call left wingers "kooks". I call anyone who fell for Bush's rhetoric a moron. Same difference.

There is a basic logical fallacy in this statement.  I call individual left wingers kooks.  You are labeling entire groups as "morons" simply because they agree with Bush's "rhetoric".

Let me turn it around: If you wrote that Ann Coulter is a right wing kook and I wrote that all those who voted for Kerry are pathetic morons, would you really consider the two statements as equivalent?

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yeah, that's it..... you're not a moron. You're just selfish.

Want to compare how much each of us gave to charity last year?

Draginol: Elton John bashed the President too. Is that your next article

Only if Elton John writes that anyone who supports Bush is a Nazi or a moron.  If someone wants to criticize (or "Bash") an elected official that's their first amendment right.  I don't care that Linda R doesn't like Bush.  However, for her to argue that those of us who made an informed, educated choice when we voted for Bush are someone misguided or "little Hitlers" then that's unacceptable.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
That's why you keep losing. You guys have this unearned sense of intellectual superiority. An unearned arrogance that really alienates millions of Americans.


Very true. Undeserved intellectual arrogance of the Left is a big turn-off for many.
But then, it allows washed-up losers like Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo to shore up their flagging careers by posing as political pundits.
It's a good thing they have acting experince; they can use their talents to act like the real journalists the Right uses.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
Want to compare how much each of us gave to charity last year?


C'mon Draginol, you can do better than that. Everyone knows you're loaded. It's kind of childish to rub it in.

But on the point of your article I agree in some ways. As what would in America be called a liberal (ie I believe in Keynesian economic policy and traditionally liberal human rights) I definitely think I'm superior to some of the people who probably voted for Bush. I reckon I'm better than some of the people who voted Democrat. I find it difficult not to make such value judgements - isn't claiming equality stretching it when you have a good education and you're being matched with a junkie who's bribed into votinng?

Linda takes it a bit far by saying that the few who are driven by their bloodlust are naturally influential on the government, but I doubt she's wrong that there were some who voted for Bush on the basis they would get to see a little more violence inflicted on 'the towelheads'. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but I can't see a line where she claims all Republicans are like that; was that in another article you read?
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

C'mon Draginol, you can do better than that. Everyone knows you're loaded. It's kind of childish to rub it in.

That's my point though. The argument is that people like me are either morons or selfish or both.  Well, she made the assertion.  Yes, I'm "loaded". So what?  We're both human beings. Why am I to be demonized simply because my philosophy on the role of government is different than hers?  Don't I contribute a great deal to society?  I've worked hard. I create jobs. I provide this website free of charge.  I give quite a bit to charity each year. I spend a lot of effort trying to be a good dad to my kids and being a good husband to my wife. And I think most people would agree I"m pretty informed on the issues.

Why can't liberals accept that their way isn't the only way. That people can honestly look at the data and come to a different conclusion as to what that data means? And that conclusion can be just as educated and informed as theirs?

Sure, there are probably racists who vote for Bush. There are racists who vote for Kerry.  The difference is that it's the left wingers who go around impugning the character and intelligence of ALL their opponents. 

LIke you pointed out, I'm "loaded".  Wouldn't it make more sense for me to be the one to argue that those who disagree with me are flawed? That those who have different philosophies on life are misguided because my philosphies have led to success and happiness that by any objective measurement is far beyond most of those who oppose my point of view?  That my philosophies have not changed simply because of my economic status and therefore the path to wealth, success, and happiness is to follow my lead?  And therefore, since I voted for Bush that those who don't vote for Bush are clearly on the "Wrong" path?  I could even point out that most self-starting successful people probably voted for Bush.  You won't find many Democrats at an Entrepreneur of the Year banquet. I mean really, if you want to get right down to it, I could crank up the snob meter and say that Kerry supporters, since they're on avarge less poor and I bet if you polled them, less happy, less satisfied with life should really ask whether they are truly enlightened after all?

Heck, if you really want to get nasty about it.  There is scientific evidence showing that poverty and low IQ are related in the United States. And overwhelmingly people who are poor vote for Democrats. So in a pinch, you could make the case that dumb people are much more inclined to vote for Democrats.

But that would be pretty damn snobby, right?  But I don't feel that way. I believe there are an infinite number of paths to happiness.  And I believe that those who don't agree with me may be just as "enlightened" as I am.  Why is it the left, which claims to be so tolerant is, in actuality, really so intolerant on intellectualism?

I'm not asking for people to agree with my views on politics. I am just asking that people have basic decency. To have a little respect for other points of view.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm sure you do make a big contribution to society. But asking whether someone with much less income than you wishes to compare monetary contributions smacks of 'piss on the wall' insecurity. It's beneath you.

Why can't liberals accept that their way isn't the only way. That people can honestly look at the data and come to a different conclusion as to what that data means? And that conclusion can be just as educated and informed as theirs?


In historical terms this is an interesting idea for an engineer to have, and I'd be surprised if it's a common view amongst the stereotypically hard-headed right. True, liberals are stereotyped as being open-minded, but as you've discovered I don't think it's very fair. I'm only 20 but I've already reached the age where most of my views are fairly well settled. Time will swing them slowly to the right, as happens to all ageing people, but for the moment I and most people my age or older are highly unlikely to make any radical changes to their philosophies without a serious reason.

If you mean that people should be polite towards the perceived delusions of others then I'd agree. Rudeness is always the weapon of the intellectually stilted. But the problem there is that there are a lot of intellectually stilted people in this world, and some are almost certain to stumble near to you at some time or another. It's better to reject them as lunatics as a mass rather than take their actual views into account and in doing corrupt your own view of more informed people who hold the deluded's opinion based on facts, not fairy tales.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
Cacto - if someone is going to assert that I supported Bush because I'm "selfish" (and they, by contrast are not selfish as evidenced by their non-support of Bush) I think it's certainly fair to ask who gave more to charity. If I make more money, the question then should be, why? I bet I grew up as poor if not poorer than anyone else in this thread.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
As what would in America be called a liberal (ie I believe in Keynesian economic policy and traditionally liberal human rights) I definitely think I'm superior to some of the people who probably voted for Bush. I reckon I'm better than some of the people who voted Democrat
----cactoblasta

But isn't it the liberal "cultural diversity" rhetoric that claims that ALL people and cultures are equally valuable? None is better or worse than any of the others?

You seem to be especially arrogant, even for a liberal. Are you a celebrity?
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
But the problem there is that there are a lot of intellectually stilted people in this world, and some are almost certain to stumble near to you at some time or another. It's better to reject them as lunatics as a mass rather than take their actual views into account and in doing corrupt your own view of more informed people who hold the deluded's opinion based on facts, not fairy tales.


Man, cacto, this is very nearly the kind of reasoning the Nazis used for their hatred of everyone and everything that wasn't "Aryan".

You know,I don't like everyone I meet here, but I do respect their right to their views, no matter how moronic I consider them.

Don't be a Hater, cacto!
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
No I'm not a celebrity. I just see no reason to believe that every single person on this planet is my equal in everything despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Unlike socialists and some liberals I don't believe that everyone is of equal value; in that my views are somewhat more classically conservative. I think people should have rights and freedom, but that doesn't mean I consider everyone to be an equal. There's no point pretending anything because I have no intention of treating them in any way other than with benevolence. I'm only liberal by American standards because the term has been warped into some all-encompassing behemoth. It's actually difficult to not be liberal if you consider the ordinary, non-American definition and the American definition at the same time.

Draginol - perhaps it would make sense if you put it into percentages of income based on relative spending and comparative costs, but noone rational would make a statement like Dabe did and be capable of being persuaded by argument. If you want to focus on this point rather than what I argued earlier then I'd rather leave it there if that's fine with you.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
He is so selfish that he provides this website for free so that people like you can come on here and say nasty things to him. Yet, for some reason you think that is OK?He's also so selfish that he looks at ways to increase the employee head count at his company even if we don't need everyone. I'm glad he's so selfish- it has provided me with a stable, well compensated job that I have enjoyed for over 9 years.


Thanks, and I am sorry for not being more specific. I am sure that drag is so unselfish. He's basically a wonderful person. Drag, I'm sorry I insulted you. I'm sure you're not selfish. At least, not in your immediate circle. KarmaGirl certainly pointed that out. My beef, however, with people who advocate tax cuts, particularly in spite of raging deficits, loss of services, health care, environmental support, etc. not to mention during wartime, for the sole reason that it's good for business, is exhibiting a social selfishness that I just can't understand. Trickle down economics are a proven failure. Cutting taxes on rich people only gives money to rich people. The poor, which is a rapidly growing segment of society, for reasons completely beyond their control, just get shafted, and any such tax cuts do absolutely nothing to benefit them. Trickle down economics is a fallacy that is perpetrated on the public to "enhance" the economy. This is why I used the word "selfish". In that respect, I stand firm.

Also, I do not think LInda Ronstadt is a kook. She is articulating what almost 50% of Americans believe. Bush is a disaster. Time and history will not judge him kindly.