Rascism... The Unconscious Varietal

What do I think? Well, I think stamping 2279 on the bottom of all your articles is some sort of code...HAHA!

I know what you are talking about, though. I've experienced something similar. Specifically, before my first tour to Korea, I had an extended family member tell me that I shouldn't go marrying one of them gooks. They said if I did, that my wife would be family and they would love her like family, but it just wouldn't be right.

shouldn't go marrying one of them gooks

I vaguely remember hearing something like this from a family member as well, but it is pretty fogged by time....

stamping 2279 on the bottom of all your articles

Hmmm... it says "2305" now.... Count-up to doomsday??

And did you tell him that "pickaninny" is about as widely accepted as "spic" or "kraut"?

And did you tell him that "pickaninny" is about as widely accepted as "spic" or "kraut"?

Yes, but more gently.

Hmmm... it says "2305" now.... Count-up to doomsday??

Aha! Now it's at 2313... and it's a link to site meter! Hmmm.... how did you stamp that in there?

I recognize this as a problem but I don't think it represents Majority America

I duuno about that, Greywar.  I think that there's a big chunk of the American voting public that still remember when segregation was in effect....and a sizeable chunk that liked it that way.  I think that has a lot to do with it. 

From what I can see, that attitude is still going strong in my  little corner of rural midwestern America.   Black people look different, talk different, act different, are raised different...it's still a matter of 'them/us' around here, it's simply more subtle (as you said).

How did you link to that site meter, anyway?

 

How did you link to that site meter, anyway?

Magic

I think that Rice is very competent, and I'm not worried about a black female president in the slightest. I think she would do the job far better than some recent candidates I've seen. (JFK2 wannabe for example.....)

However, I do have worries from time to time that some of the staffing done by various members of the republican party (and the democrats for that matter) is done as an affirmitive action movement that reflects true equality about as well as having "Token" on Southpark.

It's often, "hey, look, I appointed two black guys, a hispanic, a gay woman, and a cripple, I must be fair and unprejudiced, right?" It's as condescending and racist as any policy it tries to oppose in appearance.

Magic

You're so cool greywar.

Magic

Magic, like the cards? or did ya hitch up with a wiccan or something?

did ya hitch up with a wiccan or something?

Dated, but never married.....

That was my thing. Is it BN?

Your remarks about Minnessota and the paucity of blacks, made me remember a story my phsyc 101 professor told of of a study done at the University of Iowa. In this study, high school students were given a test which was designed to measure their attitudes toward Negro's (Sorry, that was the polite term back then--1960). The tests showed that these students's negative stereotypes were as high as any in Mississippi. Yet most of them had never met an African-American (did I get it right that time?) face to face. They were just reflecting the attitudes that they unconsciously picked up from their parents and others.

With regard to language sensitive, I think it runs wild sometimes. I don't know if it made the national press, but a couple of years ago, a deputy mayer here in DC almost got fired over language. He used the word niggardly (i.e. stingy, esp. in a mean way) in a budget meeting. There were two civil rights complaints filed the day of the meeting. It took intervention from the mayor to tell the hypersensitive types with limited language skills where to head in. Even then, there were some people who said the official "ought to have known what it would sound like to African-Americans."

Another time, while stationed in Germany, I witnessed an almost fight between a black American GI and a German civilian. The GI overheard the German refer to a neger (pronounced nay' ger), German for Negro. The GI got all bent out of shape. If he had taken the trouble at some time during his tour in Germany to learn a little of the culture, the GI would have known that the German was using the polite (1960's) term. The pegorative German word was schwarz (black).

Anyway, just goes to show that if people want to find something to feel bitter about, they'll find it.

Them : "Pickaninny. Why is that not the right word?"

How well I remember your shock when that sweet, innocent, humble relative used that word, which in your young, limited experience, was always used as a racial slur and is used when a person believes that one race is intrinsically superior to the member of a different race.

Since I have known this relative intimately over a period of many years, I thought you were being a little hidebound yourself… no matter that you were ever so gently censuring this dear, kind soul who would never look down on any other person. Probably the only place this word had ever come up was from readings from books published long before it became known as a racial slur. Jack London used it to describe the babies of West Indian women. His marvelous writings date back to the early 1900’s.

Still, even such innocent remarks should not go unchallenged. We all may be more like the ogre Shrek who claims that he is like an onion with many layers. When his loveable, well-intentioned verbose companion, the jackass, peels off one such film, it might be time to smell the stink that lies hidden deep within. (The movie Shrek is a great one that depicts prejudice in a wonderful, humorous way.)

I know what you mean about it being kind of latent, and tha tis a pity. I use to work with a lady at a theme park. We were supervisors in the Merchandise area, and had a lot of people working for us, of all races. I never detected any bigotry with her in her work assignments or treatments of any employee.

One day, she grabs me and pulls me out to the front of the store to see a 'little black baby' as she said. She thought they were so cute. Ok, so nothing wrong with that I guess. It was a femine thing. Later, she saw an interracial couple walking down the side walk and almost tossed her cookies! Then it dawned on me. I had known her for 2 years, and never suspected.

When we elected the first black governor, he barely won, altho exit polls (oh, no not those again!) showed him winning by about 10%. He actually won by about 5000 votes. again, not overt, but latent bigotry.

And Roger, many blacks still prefer to be called black. African American is just too loose a term as arabs and caucasions can use the term legally. Tersa Heinz Kerry is an African American, but she is not black.

Great post greywar...I knew a guy in law school who said that Americans would never vote for Gore because they didn't want a Jew (Leiberman) being a heartbeat away from the Presidency. He also beleived that Leiberman's primary candidacy failed because the majority of Democrats didn't believe a Jew could defeat Bush. That may be true to some extent...I just don't know how widespread it was. I think Leiberman's failed presidential run had to do with many things....but I don't know how much of that can be attributed to the fact that he is Jewish. I do remember when Colin Powell was considering running for President and the polls showed he would have defeated all other candidates hands down. I'm not sure if that poll is really a good indication of whether the country is ready for an African-American president as he was never held under the political microscope that all presidential candidates must endure.

On a more personal note, I have an Uncle who served in Korea and he loves to tell war stories. During one of his stories he referred to the Chineese as "Chinks." Of course it never even occurred to him that my spouse, who happens to be part Chineese, would be offended. He didn't even think twice about it. I should mention that my Uncle thinks my spouse is fantastic...it just never occurred to my Uncle that my spouse would be offended by his use of that terminology.

When his loveable, well-intentioned verbose companion, the jackass

She likened you to a jackass. That's awesome.

I, too, have some (I hope very mild) prejudices when it comes to race and skin color, despite having grown up around *no* African-Americans. The Mexican kids who rode the school bus with me were merely classified by my youthful indifference as "some of the poor kids." It wasn't until I moved and was exposed to more people of other skin tones that I realized I had somehow picked up some predispositions towards them. I've felt self-conscious about it ever since, and then I fear that my attempts to avoid anything offensive may somehow come off as offensive as well.

Regarding Ms. Rice as a candidate, I think she could be a very strong one. I wish that if she or Mr. Powell were elected, they wouldn't be "the first black president," but instead "a damn good president." But I know that it's not the case...

pseudosoldier wishes he were color-blind

Regarding Ms. Rice as a candidate, I think she could be a very strong one. I wish that if she or Mr. Powell were elected, they wouldn't be "the first black president," but instead "a damn good president." But I know that it's not the case...

The simple fact that they are black, and it would be a first, means it would be touted that way.  Doug Wilder was one of the best governors here in VA.  He was handed a royal mess by his predecessor, and cleaned it up with minimal pain to the electorate.  Is he remembered for that?  No, he is remembered as the first black governor of a state.

I do not doubt the 'first' will be an excellant president (the old cliche that you have to be better just to get there in the first place - ala Jackie Robinson).  And just perhaps those who had no interaction with minorities growing up will be able to shed the mild bigotry they have.  Probably not, but it is encouraging to see many facd it and question it.  INstead of sweeping it under a carpet.

I hate to say this, but i think gender would also play a large role in whether or not condoleeza rice would be elected for president. hmmm. everyone commented about the race aspect but not gender. black and a woman, will it be overlooked? geraldin ferraro anyone? i think america will ease into that like an old man into a tub of hot water. rice vs. clinton, woman vs. woman? who would be vice-president, another woman?

As a soldier, i've worked with alot of people from different backgrounds. i found many of them to be racist, though they probably wouldn't admit it. like greywar stated, it is unconscious racism. sure the don't run around saying nigger, gook,
jew, or pickaninny (it's a shame that such a cute word is racist), but they say other things to put a country or culture down. i've spent just about my entire life in america ;and i've traveled to many different parts, seen and met alot of different people. i won't stereotype an entire nation or race of people with only limited exposure. i would say living on a small military post and maybe walking across the street once a week for a year is limited exposure.

As a minority, you just have to get used it unless you want to make 20 complaints about equal opportunity and blah blah blah. you have to save that for the big stuff. i just say hot chow, wasn't that interesting.

Great post greywar...I knew a guy in law school who said that Americans would never vote for Gore because they didn't want a Jew (Leiberman) being a heartbeat away from the Presidency

I have a friend who is A jew (not very orthodox, but practicing).  And he was deathly afraid of a Lieberman candidacy.  Why?  Because of the prejudice.  But to that I say....

Bull Hockey!  We Catholics finally had a Catholic president in JFK.  We Virginians (First in the nation!) had a black Governor!

Yes some will harbor bigotry.  But in the end, he will promote understanding and tolerance due to the fact he is better than the rest, and better than we debate over now.  The first always has to be the best.

The ironic part is that if Condi were to run and were to be elected, guess which group would make the most issue out of her being black and a woman?

If you said the media, you are correct.

It's this kind of deliberate focus on a person's race or gender that make it more difficult to get to a point where 'Condoleeza Rice is the President', rather than 'Condoleeza Rice is a black, woman President'. Constantly pointing out a person's race and/or gender only prolongs and provokes the mental separation that exists in many people's minds.

If you said the media, you are correct. It's this kind of deliberate focus on a person's race or gender that make it more difficult to get to a point where 'Condoleeza Rice is the President', rather than 'Condoleeza Rice is a black, woman President'. Constantly pointing out a person's race and/or gender only prolongs and provokes the mental separation that exists in many people's minds.

AMEN!

It is a shame that those who pretend to be colorblind are the most bigotted. When will they just see a person for who they are?  I guess conservatives are far ahead of the bigotted left.

Seems we did not have to wait long at all for the left to show their nypocrasy.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139031,00.html

Anyone want to bet he does not even get his wrist slapped?  What a Bigot!

You choose the media that you look at or listin to. Howard Stern will move to the HBO of radio soon. I can't stand to listen to him, but anyone who wants to should be able to. I recently heard of a case in Macon County Illinois where a white female had her children segregated by race (black and white) because the woman has the black children. That Judge gave the natural Mother's two Caucasian children to the Aunt in Texas. Judges should be of concern when you see situations where personal bias is manifested in the law at the experience of the Constitution. The States enact laws but Judges are immune if they choose to ignore them. Coni Rice will not impact the normal citizen, she is just another yes man/woman for the administration, but keep your eye on the Courts.

Link

Link

Jack London used it to describe the babies of West Indian women. His marvelous writings date back to the early 1900’s.

I submit that such thing are not in fact "innocent" they were indicative of a very pervasive mindset in which different words were needed to describe a baby child because they were regarded as something other than white children when they are not.