[ Item Balance ] Universal Gadget VS Robust Health Potion

from Demigod Forums

Hello,

 

I'm wondering why Universal Gadget heal and Robust Health Potion are so unbalanced ..

 

Take a look at the Heal Per Second (hps), for each amount of gold:

 

Universal Gadget: http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_items#Universal_Gadget_.28500_gold.29

2000hp each 10(+2) seconds = 200(~166) hps for 500 golds.

 

Robust Health Potion: http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_items#Robust_Health_Potion_.28400_gold.29

3000hp each 8(+3) seconds = 375(~272) hps for 400 golds.

 

It would be very appreciated for Generals who'd like to heal their partners, to have an item as good as the self heal potions !

 

The Universal Gadget cooldown can't be reduced (it would be too powerfull if you use it as a weapon).

So the only way to make the heal function attractive is to up the amount of life healed.

Put it at 4000hp, and we'd have 4000hp each 10 seconds = 400 hps for 500 golds, which is similar to single heal potion.

You pay 100golds more for the damage function, and the 1 second faster cast time.

 

This may look like a detail/suggestion, but it is really an issue for support demigod (espacially Sedna).

500 golds each 2000hp heal is way too expensive for such a low heal value if you want to play a full support demigod : /

 

Thanks for reading,

MoKo.

 

1,912 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

The potion can only be used on yourself and only to heal.  The Universal gadget can be used to finish off an opponent, heal yourself, or heal an ally.  It's the fact that it gives you so many options that makes it less powerful than it's potion counterpart.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

The potion can only be used on yourself and only to heal. The Universal gadget can be used to finish off an opponent, heal yourself, or heal an ally. It's the fact that it gives you so many options that makes it less powerful than it's potion counterpart.
End of quote

Yes

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Micah, reply 1
The potion can only be used on yourself and only to heal.  The Universal gadget can be used to finish off an opponent, heal yourself, or heal an ally.  It's the fact that it gives you so many options that makes it less powerful than it's potion counterpart.
End of Micah's quote

agreed

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

The Universal gadget can be used to finish off an opponent
End of quote

That's why the damage & cooldown time are ok with that price.

 

The potion can only be used on yourself and only to heal.
End of quote

The Universal gadget [...] heal yourself
End of quote

Then why would i use an Universal gadget to heal myself for 200hps at 500g when i can heal myself for 375hps at 400g ?

 

or heal an ally
End of quote

That's it. I'm only talking about this part. This is an issue, because the hps is so low against self heal potion that it makes this item pretty useless if you use it for this function. That's why the amout of hp healed should be up. To make this function attractive.

 

Why would i pay for 3 differents (and not linked) functions, if 2 of them are beaten by low cost items ?

If the heal is up, the damage function isn't changed.
If you choose to use the item as a self heal, it would be similar to a self heal potion.
If you choose to use the item as a support for partners, then it could compete with self heal potions. Your partners won't have to buy some if you buy Gadgets.

If the damage and heal functions were linked, then i'm ok with the price. 600 damage + 2000hp healed at the same time, that worth. But the fact is that you can only use one single function !

 

Actually, only one function of this item is useful for my builds. Why would i pay for the choice, if i'm totally not interested in the 2 other functions ? :/

If you really want players to pay the choice, then make the heal at least at 3000hp. You'll pay 100g for the choice of self heal or support heal, but in counterpart you'll have 2 secs more cooldown time than a potion :s It really would be the tinyest up needed.

 

Moko.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

I'm not a big potion user, but I never pop potions as soon as the cooldown is up, it's just too expensive to play like that.  The Universal Gadget takes one slot and it is versitile.  If I'm chasing down an opponent that is low on health I can use it to finish them off or if I'm running away I can use it to heal myself or I can use it to heal an ally that is in trouble.

Even assuming there was a direct damage item and a heal ally item (which there aren't that I know of) the gadget would still have it's place doing less damage and healing for less because it's a 3-in-1.  Sure, I can only use one of the 3 things but I can wait until the last minute to decide how I want to use it which is what makes it worth 500g.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Keep in mind, gadget has a 2sec cast time vs 3 sec for potion, which is a huge deal in the middle of a battle. Besides, there's nothing like getting a kill early game after gadgeting some guy who's limping off and thinks he's made it away. And then drops dead 2 seconds later.

Gadget is a good tradeoff now. It's multiuse, faster cast, and can kill, so its rightly a bit more expensive

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Yah, program likes the Gadget.  We never got to finish that 1 v 1, btw ^^

You are paying for versatility in a small package.  Yes, you can field various other active items that are more cost-effective at any one of the Gadget's functions.  But each of them will take another item slot, and all together they will cost alot more.  The slot limit alone makes this a very good thing to have, generally, even if you are playing a support Sedna.  (Incidentally you shouldn't be healing yourself too much in this role - you sure that's how you'd describe your build?) 

Below level 10 or so the Gadget can change the course of a 1 v 1, and it leaves you room for your warpstone and your portscrolls or mana pots, etc...

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

moko, the point of the universal gadget is that you don't buy it knowing what you are going to use it for. If you know you'll use it to heal, then it makes a lot more sense to get a potion. You are paying extra so that when you are in the midst of battle you don't go, 'dang I wish I could have hit him with one more burst of damage' as your enemy runs back to base.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

moko, the point of the universal gadget is that you don't buy it knowing what you are going to use it for.
End of quote

Wrong. I know exactly what i am going to use it for: heal my partner.
I won't heal myself with it, i prefer my single heal, or a potion if really needed.

if you are playing a support Sedna.  (Incidentally you shouldn't be healing yourself too much in this role - you sure that's how you'd describe your build?)
End of quote

If you know you'll use it to heal, then it makes a lot more sense to get a potion.
End of quote

In fact i'm playing a support Sedna, i rarely have to heal myself, and i'm looking for items to improve my team healing potential.

I already use the area heal (favor point item), Sedna's single heal, and the gadget.

My healing combo is Single Heal (SH) => Area Heal (AH) => Gadget (G) => Single Heal (SH) => Team Speak: Hey mate now you take care of yourself, all my CDs are... down :x

But now that i've play lot of games with this build, on balanced fights my partner have to 'waste' time and golds to use a potion. Hell, he's got a healer (healbot ? :x) with him, why would he had to use a potion ?

I understand this need of multifunction item for lot of demigods, but i this particular case, i only need one function, which needs to be upgraded to make the char build really effective in his role: team heal support.

But now i wonder if the problem isn't the Gadget heal value, but the Sedna's single heal cooldown...

With a shortest cooldown, i could SH => AH => SH => G => SH

Why not G before AH ? Because of the 500 golds :p After the first heal it's hard to determine if you'll have to use G or not.

But it could be, still with a shortest cooldown: SH => G => SH => AH => SH => G => SH
That would be a great healing combo.

But still i'm ok with your arguments of multifunctions for lot of builds, but not this one : /

 

Moko.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

what DG and build is your partner playing?

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

We're still testing, but for the moment we focus on Rook, full dps build.

He has great hp pool, but in long fights he has to use potion, on late game especially.
Ennemies over dps my heals :s And we are not in a MMORPG, so there isn't stuff with +healing spell :'(

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting MoKoNiCo, reply 11
We're still testing, but for the moment we focus on Rook, full dps build.

He has great hp pool, but in long fights he has to use potion, on late game especially.
Enemies over dps my heals And we are not in a MMORPG, so there isn't stuff with +healing spell
End of MoKoNiCo's quote

hmmm.  I remember Rook had a decent dps build in previous Betas, but I haven't seen it lately.  Rook putting all his points in Stats and God Strength?  Attack speed, wyrmskin, and crit items?  

Or you talking about Boulder and Hammerslam? 

Rook is a great tank when Sedna supports, but you still need some nukes if you want the battle to end favorably, imo.  Pounce + Hammerslam is really strong.

 

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

It should be made more universal - make it a building repair and siege tool in addition to the heal/heal other and damage functions. That'd make it live up to its name.