Game balance development?

from Sins Forums
How has the expansion affected the ships with the most questions over them in the original game, siege frigates, flak frigates and some of the capital ships? I wondered if a sort of market would develop, where the prices of ships were reassessed in succeeding updates according to use levels, but if it existed it seems to have become stuck. Perhaps that's a concept that could be made use of- the price of a ship isn't fixed in a multiplayer game, but could fluctuate according to the number of orders for that type?

Siege frigates- with their ineffectiveness, high cost and high cap space these seem to be just a handicap to the AI after the early game in the original. Yet Entrenchment seems to have added a second specialist siege frigate, for long-range structure attack? The price for the originals might be daunting enough at half the cap space- and while it might be understandable that carrier cruisers have high cap requirements (which could be made higher), historical siege frigates tended to have less crew than regular frigates.

Flak frigates- without proper guns these frigates could cost half their current price in the original game, as they have no real function other than to counter strikecraft, which cost nothing, and they take longer to build than regular frigates.

Carrier capitals- has anyone else noticed that siege capitals level quickest and carriers slowest? They could possibly have another squadron at the start, to make them more competitive.

Marauder- it would be great to have a raider type of capital ship, but the current original game Marauder doesn't have the ability to destroy structures quickly enough after it gets past a blockade- perhaps it could use some dedicated anti-structure weaponry, and maybe even offensive minelaying capacity. Has the expansion made the raider ships more or less valuable?

More generally with the capitals, the astronomic price of updating logistic support for them might be useful to revise, as it just prevents capitals from being used and I'm not sure why this is desirable? How about a system where there was no extra support cost, but each crew was still trained separately? The screen would then show your 'crew bank' instead of support level. Though you could still buy crews at increasing cost, if you had an L2 capital you could lose a level to make another crew- and Resurrection might be both more effective and easier to implement?

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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

you hit on something i had been thinking about too.  some good ideas here.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top


Siege frigates- with their ineffectiveness, high cost and high cap space these seem to be just a handicap to the AI after the early game in the original. Yet Entrenchment seems to have added a second specialist siege frigate, for long-range structure attack? The price for the originals might be daunting enough at half the cap space- and while it might be understandable that carrier cruisers have high cap requirements (which could be made higher), historical siege frigates tended to have less crew than regular frigates.
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I guess siege frigates could be a bit cheaper without affecting game ballance too much.

Flak frigates- without proper guns these frigates could cost half their current price in the original game, as they have no real function other than to counter strikecraft, which cost nothing, and they take longer to build than regular frigates.

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They aren't that bad. While they are no longer the prime mean to kill fighters, they are still useful as an all purpose combat ship. They are though, can dish some damage once upgraded and can target several ships at once while most other ships can only attack one. I do find them useful...

Carrier capitals- has anyone else noticed that siege capitals level quickest and carriers slowest? They could possibly have another squadron at the start, to make them more competitive.

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I agree, they need to carry more fighters to make up for their cost.


Marauder- it would be great to have a raider type of capital ship, but the current original game Marauder doesn't have the ability to destroy structures quickly enough after it gets past a blockade- perhaps it could use some dedicated anti-structure weaponry, and maybe even offensive minelaying capacity. Has the expansion made the raider ships more or less valuable?
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A dedicated capital ship for structure busting would be great.


More generally with the capitals, the astronomic price of updating logistic support for them might be useful to revise, as it just prevents capitals from being used and I'm not sure why this is desirable? How about a system where there was no extra support cost, but each crew was still trained separately? The screen would then show your 'crew bank' instead of support level. Though you could still buy crews at increasing cost, if you had an L2 capital you could lose a level to make another crew- and Resurrection might be both more effective and easier to implement?
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I don't know why people complain capships cost too much... No other ships become more powerful over time and have the same survival rate. They are just not meant to be the all end all type of ships, they need support and escorts.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Siege frigates- with their ineffectiveness, high cost and high cap space these seem to be just a handicap to the AI after the early game in the original. Yet Entrenchment seems to have added a second specialist siege frigate, for long-range structure attack? The price for the originals might be daunting enough at half the cap space- and while it might be understandable that carrier cruisers have high cap requirements (which could be made higher), historical siege frigates tended to have less crew than regular frigates
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Seige frigates dont get anti starbase attacks, those are the new anti structure cruisers. All races have them except vasari.

 

Carrier capitals- has anyone else noticed that siege capitals level quickest and carriers slowest? They could possibly have another squadron at the start, to make them more competitive.
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all of the types of caps level at the same rate, whether seige, battleship, carrier or support. It just seems that carrier caps lvl slower.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Carrier capitles seem to lvl slower than the rest because by the time you build them, you probaly already have sevreal cap ships in your fleet.  experance is devided among the caps in a system that the opponets stuff is being killed, i.e killing someting worth 50 exp with only one cap ship in system, that cap ship gets all 50 points, but with 4 caps, it would be spread out at 12.5 points per ship.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
It might be more because carrier capitals aren't as much use for planet bombing, so they move away with the fleet while the siege capitals get to finish off planets? Carriers are also weaker, and might have to leave combat earlier.

One aspect of the random maps that hampers the use of carrier capitals is the bizarre preference of the local militia commanders for flak and siege frigates. Perhaps they're insane, so obsessed with treachery that they want to bomb the planet after they've lost it, and the anti strikecraft fetish is part of that? If there's a threat, the invading fleet can often leave before bothering with the militia flak. They might attack the extractors, but unless the invaders can't return, they can be confident that no harm will be done. All the flak seems to accomplish is to deter the selection of a carrier as the free capital?

It would be cap space I'd alter for siege frigates rather than cost, otherwise it would be too easy to rush. Massed siege frigates would then be viable late in the game, if expensive. Also, it's not the cost of buying a capital that seems questionable, rather the added logistic cost of having more than a couple- why should having 5-6 capitals be so prohibitively expensive, when they still have to have support and escorts? Limiting fleets to one or two capitals encourages spam.