[REQUEST] A.I. Cheating

elimination of...

from Demigod Forums

Please eliminate cheating on the part of the A.I. .

That is, please eliminate computer opponent statistical advantages. You are crafting a tight contest with Demigod. Having a foe cheat in that tight contest flies in the face of the entire game concept - the computer isn`t playing by the same rules I am.

People are sort of heralding Demigod as a great epic balanced challenge, and yet there is contentment with an opponent in singleplayer and skirmish who is fundamentally imbalanced. My foes should gain experience at the same rate I do. They should quaff potions with the same speed as I when doing the same. They should read teleport scrolls over the same time period as I do. They should gain gold income at the same rate I do. They should begin with the same resources I begin with. Etcetera.

Please note that I am predicating this opinion on testimony gleaned from this forum, added to various hunches derived from play experience. If I am mistaken, please disregard this post.

1,396 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

An AI can never be as good as a human player playing by the same rules. Increased difficulty by "cheating" is a cheap way of introducing a difficulty scale without programming different AIs (which means they can focus on one which means the better it gets, the flatter they can make the cheat scale).

If you want fair, play versus humans. Playing against computers will never be completely fair, just approaching it. If you are good enough to beat the hardest AI, it would not be fair if you only faced the weakest kind.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

But there should be an appropiate range of difficulties like they have in GalCiv2 so you can find the AI level that works best against your skill level.

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Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

A.I. challenge does not require cheating. Many games have proven that. Creating an A.I. that plays by the rules and yet is a decent adversary is something to aspire to... and something many other game design teams have succeeded in doing. I like Demigod and the folks behind it, but I am not inclined to be content with a single player or skirmish featuring Cheating Bastards®. I`ve faced enough of those in lesser games, made even lesser by them.

And again, a cheating opponent is completely contrary to the basic premise of the game: a contest between equals.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

SupCom had proven that cheating A.I´s could be very entertaining

 

On top of that I think even if they make the AI better the cheating of the AI must stay

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

AI doesn't cheat on Normal Difficulty Settings I think.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

AI doesn't cheat on Normal Difficulty Settings I think.
End of quote

That is correct.  You don't hit "cheating" until you play hard or nightmare AI

You have advantages no AI will ever have.  If it makes you feel better, some lil AI is probably posting in a virtuality about how humans are cheats because they use adaptability, awareness, and intuitive decision-making.

Against those a 20% buff to stats and resources seems pretty paltry...

;P 

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Ke5trel, reply 6

You have advantages no AI will ever have.  If it makes you feel better, some lil AI is probably posting in a virtuality about how humans are cheats because they use adaptability, awareness, and intuitive decision-making.

Against those a 20% buff to stats and resources seems pretty paltry...
 
End of Ke5trel's quote

Totally agree!!!  And although I really want the ai to improve more before release, this version (2D) feels really dumb, cheating will always be a necessity.  We have advantages the ai will never have. 

 

P.S. Love the new avatar pic!!!

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

P.S. Love the new avatar pic!!!
End of quote

Thanks Trigeminal |-)

 

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

I like AI cheating.  If you don't want the AI to cheat, play on a lower difficulty setting.  It's as simple as that.

Oh, and provide modding tools for Sorian to tweak the AI after release, if he plays this game too... :)

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

if you are interested in artificial intelligence, you should have learn that it doesn't exist (and we will probably have to wait a llllloooooonnnnnngggg time to see that happening). So an ai in a game really lacks creativity and so cant be a really dangerous adversory for someone that knows demigod very well (and i think it applies for every rts).

So if you want more to add some challenge, you have to gives advantages to the computer. It can seem unfair, but since what he does is really predictable -whatever the devs do-. So if you want a totally fair match, just play against an other player. Anyway it is the best training, and way more intense and fun to play with a real person.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

A game where the ai is challenging without cheating you say, hmm.... I see 3 options:

1. A monkey can play the game at it's maximum

2. Time machine

3. The player is just really crap

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

You create an array of patterns that are sophisticated enough to give the illusion of intellect. If the combination is clever enough, you can successfully simulate a reasonably intelligent player. I don`t see this as an impossible feat, especially when other games have pulled it off.

Btw, I don`t recall the Supreme Commander A.I. cheating, except perhaps when it came to being aware of where your units were after they had made an initial contact with the enemy. SupCom is a game I would cite as an exceptional example of A.I.s *not* cheating. Especially when contrasted to a gazillion other rtss. In every SupCom skirmish I ever played the A.I. seemed to labour under the same resource constraints I did - thats what made some early rush tactics so nail-bitingly entertaining.