Who is the ruling clique and how do they define science?

There is no evidence for Creationism, there is no way to test for it.  In a scientific context, the idea is worthless.

There is evidence for evolution, however.  A LOT of it so that's what we focus on...things that are real.

~Zoo

and there is NO evidence for the evolutionary theory when it comes to origins.  NONE. 

We've been over this a million times.  That wasn't the focus of this article anyhow Zoo.  The article had to do with Stein's losing out of a job as a commencement speaker beacuse he didn't buy into the evolutionary theory.......and he graduated from Yale which is totally secular when it comes to such things.  Imagine that. 

The question has always been......what are the evolutionists afraid of?  Both sides have equal footing when it comes to the matter of origins.  Why did Stein lose this job opportunity? 

Evolution has nothing to do with origin.  It depends on life existing and then changing.

There's a whole other area of research when it comes to origins.  If that's the argument you want to go with then creation isn't even in the same ballpark as evolution.  It's a different game downtown.

~Zoo

Again Zoo, we've been over this....it's all how you start your bias.  That's your foundation.  Then we go and look at the facts and determine which way we're going with the facts by our biases. 

The question remains.......was Stein right or wrong in his movie "Expelled" when he set about to show that it's politically incorrect to take, in this case, the ID theory over the Evolutionary Theory?  That by doing so, one could be terminated solely on their "belief" system, not the facts? 

Oh, God, here we go again.  Emphasis on the qualifier added.  The evidence for the existence of evolution is overwhelming, but it's critics demand that it explain the origin of all life, something about which it makes no claims, or else.  Every time this comes up, they simply refuse to debate the theory...  they insist on changing the subject instead.

No personal offense, KFC, but 'scuse me, I gotto go into a dark quiet room & let the headache subside.

No, that's not even a fair statement to make concerning me.  I've debated this far and long and until the cows came home more than once.  Just a nominal perusing thru the science blogs will show you that....over a three year period. 

If anyone changed the subject it was Zoo that's why I keep trying to come back to the subject at hand.  When that movie came out the "evolutionists" on this site constantly and consistently said Stein was full of it and his claims of people losing jobs and tenure weren't true. 

Let's stick to that subject.  That's why I'm saying the proof is IN the pudding. 

We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.

it's been exhausting but we here still have 2 hours and 55 minutes to go before charles darwin's bicentennial birthday celebration evolves its way to a close!  

ya and what I think is funny is that while Darwin's religious followers are having birthday cake and ice cream a poll was done that showed that as many as 43% of ALL Britons believed in "young earth creation" or the idea that God created the world within the last 10,000 years. 

How about that? 

An even greater % thought "Intelligent Design" might be true. 

And this is from his homeland where he's considered one of the most influential Britons of all time. 

In our own country where Evolution is taught 100% in our "government"  school systems they have failed miserably to convince even 50% that this theory holds water. 

So much for having a captive audience. 

People are free to 'believe' whatever they wish.  In our own country, where creationism is taught 100% in our 'religous' churches, they have failed miserably to convince even 50% that this theory holds water.

and that's a good thing......even though the government and liberal media are trying hard to convince us otherwise. 

Do you have data to back this up? 

[banghead]...........................................[/banghead]

I thought so. 

you have to go to church and study the claims before you can  understand the creation side to be convinced.  You're certainly not going to get it anywhere else.....like you used to.

So if the churches are teaching creationism 100% as you say (which they aren't btw) how many are coming out convinced these churches are correct in their teaching? 

Hint:  much better % than those coming out of 12 years of government schools being indoctrinated in humanistic Evolutionary Theory. 

More people (religious or not) believe in either the creation story or ID story than in ET.  That's a fact! 

I stand corrected: In our own country, where creationism is taught 100% in our 'religous' churches, they have failed miserably to convince more than 54% that this theory holds water.

Link

Nearly Two-thirds of U.S. Adults Believe Human Beings Were Created by God

Opinions are divided about evolution theories

Earlier this year, the State Board of Education in Kansas reignited an old debate – whether or not creationism should be taught in public schools – and shone the spotlight on a new theory, intelligent design. While many in the scientific community may question why this issue has been raised again, a new national survey shows that almost two-thirds of U.S. adults (64%) agree with the basic tenet of creationism, that "human beings were created directly by God."

At the same time, approximately one-fifth (22%) of adults believe "human beings evolved from earlier species" (evolution) and 10 percent subscribe to the theory that "human beings are so complex that they required a powerful force or intelligent being to help create them" (intelligent design). Moreover, a majority (55%) believe that all three of these theories should be taught in public schools, while 23 percent support teaching creationism only, 12 percent evolution only, and four percent intelligent design only.

Thanks for the link.  I just pulled this out  of it to show that I was correct in what I stated earlier.  Between Creationists and those who believe in the ID theory that makes up 74% who believe there was at least some higher power while ONLY 22% believe in the Evolution Theory. 

Then why are we ONLY teaching one in the Public Schools when all three theories start with our pre-conceived biases?   Especially seeing that a whole 55% believe that we should be teaching all three? 

I'll tell you why....because our public schools are "government schools."  That's why.  Separation of church and state is their excuse.....there's no reason why all three can't be taught. 

People 'believed' the world was flat, that the Earth was the center of the universe - to the extent that they were willing to inflict what we now call 'cruel & unusual punishment' on those who publicly defied the orthodoxy.  An opinion poll is not science and I only linked it to show that arguing about which side is 'convincing' people is ludicrous, a sideshow.  The universe doesn't care about opinions, doesn't even know they exist, and won't bend it's immutable laws to accomodate them.

I agree...so quit will ya? 

I agree that it really doesn't matter who believes what.  I get that.  It doesn't matter if you have 10,000 guys and I have 100 guys who are with us.  What matters is the truth.  Since I'm a truth seeker, that's all I really care about anyhow.  Most of the time I'm on the wrong side of the opinion poll anyhow and I quite like that because it's less crowded. 

Look, maybe we need to get to basics here.  I am a Creationist and have looked at and studied both camps pretty extensively over the years.  If your definition of evolution is "change over time." then you can call me an evolutionist,...... because I do, believe it or not, believe in change over time.  But if you believe that we came from insects or trees or whatever is the latest theory then we have to part ways.  From what I understand there are different definitions of evolution. 

But I do believe that because I don't believe in the Evolutionary Theory as being taught which basically you can't really honestly pin it down, then I will never understand ET.  Because the definition put forth by the Evolutionists  is that only believing ET is understanding it which is ridiculous btw.  I understand alot of things that I don't believe in.  I'm sure you do to. 

Don't pin me with the CC and for goodness sake get a new example will ya?  I mean how old do you have to go back to try and prove your point?   I keep hearing this flat earth thing and it's getting quite old because......well it is old. 

a lil more than 80% of india's 1.15 billion people may believe in multiarmed female and multicolored elephant dieties--a number that's equal to nearly 66% of our entire population.   what's more, they've been believin in them for several thousand years before the patriarch of the religion which spawned your own began hearing a voice in his head telling him to kill his son.

truth is truth...notta popularity contest

A lot of kids believe in Santa Claus...but that doesn't mean he exists.

Apparently people can choose to believe whatever they want...but reality trumps belief.  Shame that so many people are utterly misinformed. :/  Oh well...

~Zoo

you haven't lived long enough Zoo......come back in 20 years and maybe you might be just as "misinformed" especially when you begin to see the strongholds you believe in, crumble and be obsolete as they "evolve." 

Truth never changes.   

exactly Kingbee.....can't remember when I've agreed with you so much on any issue but this is exactly right.  In fact, most people are NOT interested in truth anyhow.  Opinion is much more the normative these days. 

and yet you yourself offer poll results to indicate what? common sense vs the scientific method? popular opinion vs logic? belief in what cannot be proven vs objective analysis of physical evidence? 

roughly 100 years ago, belief in cyclops as decribed in other ancient texts musta gotta huge boost by the arrival in town of any  halfway competent traveling show impressario with an elephant skull.

I finally saw Stein's movie and enjoyed it so much I recommend it to everyone.

Where's academic freedom in the Univ. of Vermont? Where's all the so called tolerance of alternate viewpoints?

I get such a kick from Evolutionists who whine about not wanting religious views forced on students all the while pushing Darwin's Evolution Theory which is based on Atheistic Naturalism, a religious belief!

Dr. William Provine of Cornell University explained his and Darwin’s shared atheistic beliefs in this way: “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear -- and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal -- directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either. What an unintelligible idea.”

I finally saw Stein's movie and enjoyed it so much I recommend it to everyone.

Where's academic freedom in the Univ. of Vermont? Where's all the so called tolerance of alternate viewpoints?

I get such a kick from Evolutionists who whine about not wanting religious views forced on students all the while pushing Darwin's Evolution Theory which is based on Atheistic Naturalism, a religious belief!

Dr. William Provine of Cornell University explained his and Darwin’s shared atheistic beliefs in this way: “Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear -- and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal -- directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either. What an unintelligible idea.”

Sorry for the double post...the edit button isn't working properly.