Minesweeping - another idea

If mines are being automatically removed so we can pay attention to something else, what's the point of mines? If it costs resources to automatically remove them, wouldn't it be simpler to simply charge a "mine tax" on everybody's income and not bother putting the mines on the map at all?

I'm glad people are being creative, but sometimes suggestions just need to be put through a "is this fun?" test.

laying mines SHOULD come at an expense.  It's a gamble.  However, clearing them should not cost.  If I can research a tech to clear their mines, then they will just have to rethink their strategy because by that time, laying mines will actually be LOSING money for them. 

The point of mines would be the same as the current point with mines.  In other words, the point is the same as it is now.  I don't see how the point changes.  If you believe that the point somehow changes, please tell me how.

I really don't see how any of that follows.  Maybe you don't care to remove any mines, or you are not in a situation in a particular game where you would need to.  In that case, your mine tax would amount to "taxation without representation," as you are being taxed for mine removal but do not perform any mine removal.  In another situation, perhaps you only remove a couple of mines, where as the dude next door removes mines for the entire game.  Your scheme would seem to tax them the same regardless.  In this case, your scheme amounts to "income redistribution."  Finally, I don't see why anything I proposed would be tantamount to "not putting the mines on the map at all."

Actually, the point of my post was to suggest something to make the game more fun for the people who are complaining about mines, saying it is tedious, boring, and micromanagement to deal with them.  I'm not saying I have all the answers by any means, but at least on the surface my suggestion keeps the mines as they are now, but reduces or eliminates the tedium, boredom, and micromanagement issues people complain about.

You seem to want to bias the game against minelaying, and for minesweeping.  Hey, maybe it's a good idea, and maybe you have a good reason for suggesting such, but until I see your reasons, it doesn't sound like such a good idea to me.

If mines are being automatically removed, the point of mines becomes to make me sit around and wait to attack a planet until after the AI clears the minefield. I'll be watching the game play itself, and while that's better then the current broken model, watching the game play itself is not fun.

I don't care to remove the mines? The way the AI spams mines and the way fleets merrily charge to their death while blissfully ignoring the minefield, my options are to either remove the mines, or not attack any planet that has them (which is all of them).

It doesn't make sense to pay to destroy something. I don't pay to destroy enemy ships. I don't pay to bombard enemy planets. Mines are much weaker stationary targets, but it costs resources to remove them? That's just silly, and since I have no choice but to remove them in order to do anything, it amounts to little more then an income tax. Once we're at that point, not putting them on the map at all would be easier (and would eliminate a whole lot of framerate issues).

It is tedious and it is boring. Automating it doesn't remove those problems. It makes the AI do it instead, where I get to watch the AI do it. That is, unless the enemy AI has other defenses at the planet I'm sweeping which keep killing my minesweeper (and they will), at which point I need a fleet to protect the minesweeper, and we're right back to where we started.

Mines need to be fixed to make them not kill the fun of the game. Automating the problem doesn't actually fix it.

Good.  We've just agreed that the point hasn't changed.  The point of mines remains the same under my system.

But you can already watch the game play itself.  Send your ships into an enemy system, and you can sit back and watch the game play itself.  It might not play to your satisfaction, but it will play itself.  Stick a scout on autopilot, and it will do scouting.  It might not scout to your satisfaction, but it will scout.  Stick capships and cruisers on autocast, and they will automatically use special abilities.  Perhaps not to your liking, but they will do it.  Etc.

There are many instances in this game and other games (Supreme Commander) where you can choose to sit back and "watch the game play itself."  In general, I applaud attempts to automate micromanagement and tedium, so that I can get on with the real business of actual strategy and planning (the actual fun part).  My suggestions automate the micromanagement and tedium while keeping "the point" of mines.

Of course, if you hate "watching the game play itself," guess what?  YOU CAN TAKE THE MINESWEEPER OFF OF AUTOPILOT AND SWEEP THE FIELD MANUALLY.  Just like you can do scouting manually, or anything else.  Bottom line, your complaint is a non-complaint.

You missed the point.  The point was, your "income tax" treats everyone the same, no matter how many mines they removed (even if that number is "none"). 

Oh, it makes sense.  Now, it might not be the best idea to implement in the world.  In fact, perhaps it shouldn't be implemented at all.  But it makes sense.  The inspiration for the idea came from the fact that 1) it costs resources for the TEC to place mines in a field, and 2) people want to be able to remove mines quickly and expediently.  I figured if you want to essentially "press a button and eliminate mines," perhaps it should cost you something for the service - something along the lines of what it cost the TEC player to place them.

You say you don't pay to destroy enemy ships.  But of course you do.  You pay to build ships to destroy enemy ships, and you pay to buy the infrastructure and technology to build those ships.

The correct analogy is not an income tax.  It is a toll road.  If you use the toll road, you pay.  If you don't use it, you don't pay.

Everything in the game, no matter what it is, "amounts to little more than blah," whatever that "blah" happens to be (for you, an income tax).  Whether it is ships, infrastructure, whatever, you can always boil down whatever part of the game you are looking at into some sort of "essense."  Then, simply not doing any of it at all would be easier.  Bottom line, your point is moot - there is no point here.

But as stated previously, you don't have to watch the AI do it if you don't want.  You can take it off autopilot and do it yourself (same as everything else), or you can go about your business in another part of the game (actual strategy, planning, etc) and not watch the AI do the drudge work.

Your complaint can be registered for hundreds of other aspects of the game.  Take pathfinding for instance.  You could say "great, now I get to watch the AI do the boring pathfinding instead of doing it myself."  I say your complaint makes no sense.  And when I see complaints which make no sense, my first instinct is that it isn't the real complaint at all - its a proxy complaint.  The real complaint is left unstated.  I'm guessing you simply don't like mines, period, and probably just want them removed from the game entirely.  Now, that's perfectly fine, but if so, state it out loud and clear and direcly and to the point, and quit with the obfiscation and beating around the bush.

LOL - this is ridiculous.  You might as well be saying "unless the guy has stuff which kills my long range frigs which are eliminating his turrets at a distance - then we're right back to where we started!"  Of course your enemy should be able to take out that thing which you are using to take him out.  If you can't deal with it, then I suppose you just lose!

i think this is a good idea but it would most likely only work against tec mines since the advent and vasari mines follow u (if im not mistaken dont have entrench. installed atm) so the ship would have to have thick "armor" so the wen the mines hit it it doesnt die, unless it were to launch a counter measure type thing to trick the mines (advent/vasari). that sabout it except i dont think it should cost u as the ship should have to be researched and build, add some upgrades like better armor, engines, and decoys and u got urself a pritty effective minesweeper. maybe even get resources for destroying mines instead of pay to destroy them.