Not very likely.

Jesus was very clear that god and the state should be seperated. Hence when asked about paying taxes he said to give to ceasar what was Caesar's and to God what was God's. Marraige is a civil union and therefore Jesus would likely say the same. He may even chastise those bigotry. look at how he viewed those who condemned prostitutes!

Paul.

Reply to Solitair. Paul, you are correct about church and state should be separated. Every kingdom on earth, every nation, and every form every government is the result of the will of God. They are all being used by Him to accomplish His purposes. None of them exist without His approval. The prophet Daniel wrote "He removeth kings and setteth up kings" Therefore, it is sinful for a Christian to become involved in any attempt to over throw or slander any government - see Titus 3:1-3 + 1Timothy 2: 1-4. On the issue of marriage - it is not a simple civil union. Marriage is a sacred covenant ordained by God. And yes I am well aware of the religeous bigotry that is out there. And it is true Jesus did not condemn the sinner but after forgiving the woman who was brought to Him accused of commiting adultry He told her "Go and sin no more". There is forgiveness for sin ONLY if we repent of it. That is what I had to do when I first came to Christ. Before my conversion I lived in the homosexual lifestyle since my teens to age 30. I am now 38. I watched as several of my friends die from AIDS including my lover and best friend, Paul. I was even gay-bashed three times and suffered from a ruptured spleen - nearly bleeding to death internally. When I first read the Bible I searched the Scriptures frantically to find one verse to justify my homosexuality but could not. I never told anyone at the church about my past but when I came up out of the waters of my baptism the minister baptizing me all of a sudden stopped saying. " Oh some thing is wrong here!" " Satan has bound you in the flesh" and he discreetly whispered in my ear " You have been involved in homosexuality but God is going to set you free right now" This was all taking place in front of an audience of over two hundred people. The minister brought me out of the baptism tank and called over the Pastor and two other ministers. As I stood there soaking wet before my family and all the other people, they began to pray and has they laid ther hands on me it was like I got hit with a hurricane force wind - I jumped backward about two feet in air and landed on my back flopping around like a fish out of water and I started speaking in tongues. And I've been Spirit filled ever since. That is the difference between vain religion and the truth - the supernatural power of God. So when I made my comments about the sin of sodomy you now know they are from someone who has lived in that bondage, who knows what the lifestyle is really about, and who knows the compassion and mercy of Jesus Christ, and who knows Jesus Christ enough to make the comments I said. God loves everyone but He is obligated to judge sin sooner or later.

Daryl,
thank you for sharing your personal experiences and beliefs with us. There is no doubt that many consider sodomy a sin in the Christian faith, that however does not justify Christians forcing their beliefs on others in the state. There are also many Christians who believe that sodomy should not be considered a sin, and indeed, there are openly gay priests and bishops in various Christian denominations. Despite your quoting of the old testament (and you are no doubt aware that the second vatican council clearly stated that Christians only lived by the new testament ), I still stand by the statement that Jesus would NOT want the state enfocing personal moral issues (moral issues that affect others are something else). He was very clear on seperation of church and state. Christians who try to merge the two are being very selective in their beliefs. They also need to be very careful about the sin of pride and their beleif that they can judge others. Religion should be a personal experience, not a state enforced way of living.

Paul.

Reply To Solitair. Paul, I agree that religion should be a personal experience and not enforced by the state. Therefore moral issues should not be imposed by politicians or court judges against the will of the people. That is why the referenda was put to the people to decide. We all make our moral decions based upon our conscience - whether a person is religious or not. The Bible talks about having a "pure" conscience as well as a "defiled" conscience and a "seared" conscience. Freedom of conscience is what separation of church and state is really about. But that freedom is slowly being taken away by minority groups. In Canada, in the name of 'political correctness' our politicians and leaders are being forced to make decisions against their concience. And when one continually does that their conscience becomes defiled, until finally it becomes "seared" as in applying a hot iron to plastic; the plastic is permanently damaged beyond repair. And contrary to what a vatican council states: Christians are to live by "EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God". In fact, Jesus quoted that same verse from the O.T. "Every Word" means just that - both O.T. and New Testament. The catholic church is a religion unto itself and is anything but Christian. And as for openly gay priests and bishops calling themselves Christains; they are the "ravenous wolves" dressed up in sheep's clothing who will not spare the flock that Jesus warned about. The true church in the eyes of God is a chaste virgin - pure and holy- waiting for her bridegroom. But the catholics and other apostates are depicted as a religious drunken whore in Rev 17. And the out cry of God is 'Come out of her lest you partake in her sins and the wrath of God that will be poured out upon her without mixture'

Frankly this isn't a religious issue. If it were, there wouldn't have been enough people voting to get these laws passed. Many people oppose gay marriage. I have seen GAY people interviewed on television that oppose gay marriage.

So, to knee-jerk this into some kind of "Christians are taking over the world" idiocy isn't gonna fly. People want to make this a religious edict, because if they can convince people of it they can start up the whole "church vs. state" panicfest. Only then can they topple the will of the voting public in favor of a small minority.

We may never find out what the courts think on the issue. I'm not sure if it passed or not, but Congress is trying to bar Federal courts from hearing any challenges to states gay marriage amendments.

As for this one, well, technically, the law doesn't deny equal protection to gays to marry. They too can marry members of the opposite genders. Straight people can't marry members of the same sex too. Now if this is about letting people marry who they love and not just marry a member of the opposite gender, then the same arguments can be made for polygamous marriages and incestuous marriages (which surprisingly, are very unpopular even though they too involve consenting adults getting to marry the ones they love).

That argument simply makes no sense. Why would a homosexual want to marry someone of the opposite sex, or a heterosexual someone of the same sex? That's like saying you can have a driver's liscense, but you have to use a bicycle. And why do people constantly have to compare gay marriage to incest or polygamy? Those aren't the issues being discussed or voted on.

"That argument simply makes no sense. Why would a homosexual want to marry someone of the opposite sex,... "

It should make perfect sense. No one is telling homosexuals they can't get married. What they are telling them is that the term "marriage" is the union of a man and a woman. So essentially they aren't denying anyone the right to marry , they are preventing a new definition of marriage from being shoved down their thoats by a judge thousands of miles away...

It's like if I went to play golf in a golf tournament, and took a tennis ball and a racket with me. They would escort me off the premesis, and explain that golf is played with golfclubs and golfballs. I couldn't sue them for preventing me from playing golf, could I? What I was demanding to play wasn't golf.

What homosexuals are demanding now, in the opinion of the majority of voters in these states, isn't marriage. So marriage isn't being denied them. Instead, they are being denied the right to impose THEIR new definition of marriage on the majority of the people in these states.

Daryl,
the second vatican council defines what being a roman catholic is about. You are no doubt aware that the old testament is full of hatred, fire and brimstone. The new testament is full of forgiveness and repenting. The fact is that the Roman Catholic religion is defined by the New testament, in which Jesus clearly implies that the state and personal religion are seperate. This is the largest Christian religion. The baptist religion may be happy to use the Old testament as it's scripture, and that is purely a matter for that faith, but condemning people of other faiths because they don't follow your beliefs will just lead us back to the crusades. You will notice again in the bible that Jesus did NOT critise any of the various segments of the Jewish faith.

As for calling gay priests and bishops "ravenous wolves", do you not fear that you may be sinning here? Who are you to judge them or their faith? You sound like the Jews condemning Mary Magdelen. Surely Jesus, who refused to even condemn adulterers in an era where they are stoned to death, should be your guide here. Be very careful here as you are teethering on the edge of the deadly sin of pride. The sin of assuming you are closer to God and can condemn others that you feel are sinners. Condemning the sin is acceptable, condemning the person is wrong. Feel free to condemn homosexuality as something against your religion, but don't fall into the evil trap of condemning the people.

Paul.

Jesus was very critical of the religeous leaders of the day. He called them " a brood of vipers and hypocrites" and "blind guides" that cause the ones they lead to become " a two fold child of hell" more than themselves. Furthermore, Jesus stated "unless your righteousness exceeds that of Scribes and Pharicees you shall all likewise perish" and "How shall you (the Pharicees) escape the sentence of hell!" I am not condemning anyone. I am quoting the Word of God which is the only authority for truth above vatican edicts and popes. I do not judge the person but I do speak against the perverted misrepresentation of my dear Lord whom is being mocked and put to open shame by modern day Pharicees that are misleading millions of people. And I should remind you it was the Papal persecution in Europe for hundreds of years is what the fathers of your constitution had in mind when they wrote in the article for separation of church and state. And yes Jesus preached about love but love is move than a warm gooey feeling in the belly. It's about caring enough to give warning and correction when it is needed. That is why God kept sending prophets to Israel. God pleaded with His people before sending judgement. And as God's child I,out of love, speak out as in Isaiah 58:1 " CRY ALOUD, SPARE NOT, LIFT UP THY VOICE LIKE A TRUMPET, AND SHEW MY PEOPLE THEIR TRANSGRESSION" Oh I just remembered you don't take the O.T. seriously so I'll quote 2Tim 4:1-4 : " I CHARGE THEE BEFORE GOD, AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO SHALL JUDGE THE QUICK AND THE DEAD AT HIS APPEARING AND HIS KINGDOM; PREACH THE WORD; BE INSTANT IN SEASON, OUT OF SEASON; REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT WITH ALL LONGSUFFERING AND DOCTRINE. FOR THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE; BUT AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS SHALL THEY HEAP TO THEMSELVES TEACHERS, HAVING ITCHING EARS; AND THEY SHALL TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH" It would be a sin for me not to do so.

Jesus may have been critical of religious leaders but he did not critise the various segments of Jewish faith or state that one was more correct than the other.

So under what grounds do you critise the faith of others? Again I ask what gives you the right to critise them? What lets you say that your belief is superior to theirs and that you are correct and they are wrong? It sounds awfully lie pride speaking. Jesus was very clear about what he thought of others condemning those they felt were sinners. Quotes such as 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone ...' or 'look to your own house before ...', come to mind.

Paul.

Under what grounds do I criticize the faith of others? And what gives me the right to criticise them? I thought I made that clear 2Tim 4:1-4. As a Holy Ghost filled believer according to Acts 2:38 I am anointed to preach, reprove, and rebuke against false doctrine. The urgent need today is for Catholics and all who claim to be Christians to examine their own beliefs and teachings of their churches by the only sure standard - The Bible. Whatever contradicts or adds or subtracts from the books of the O.T. and N.T., is error no matter how many may cling to man-made traditions. Error is never more deceptive than when it is presented with a veneer of truth. And before I made any criticisms I was careful to look inside the Catholic Catechism. And I was horrified at the out right lies and contradictions to Scripture. Here is a sample: (80)p.31 Tradition is equal with scripture, (100)p.35 Only the pope and bishops can interpret Scripture, (841)pp. 242, 243 Salvation includes the Muslims, (982)p.278 The church can forgive sins. As Jesus said "Why do ye also transgress the commandments of God by your tradition? And as for who can interpret Scripture? - 1John 2:27 "But the anointing (Holy Ghost) which ye received of him abideth in you, and YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And in the matter of salvation: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name(the name of Jesus) under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12 --and that excludes the names of Allah and Mary. And only Jesus Christ can forgive sins. Please, Paul, its not my intention to condemn anyone or be unkind. I realize I'm a sinner under the grace of God and I need to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. But I'm also obligated to obey God as I already stated according to 2Tim4:1-4.

It is a sad thing that in these times gay people have to live in a state of rejection. Hopefully in the coming years much of this will be corrected.