mines and star bases: C and C

Mines are can of worms and will be eternal source of scourge and forum whines.

There is no middleground when it comes to free, allpowerful mines.

Either they will be overpowered, or nerffed to uselessness.

Mark my words.

I agree with you overchargethis...i say they bring the mines HP to 100 and have them take at least 1 tactical slot. not too powerful and not "nerfed to uselessness"...i have faith in the sins team...and by the way cpt_siddy, the mines go for 1000 credits...they arent free, but damn cheap for mines that dont take tactical slots...

entrenchment is great, i love the star bases-awesome upgrades-i just finished my first game, and they definitely need to up the speed in the real release like they said. i love the tech tree change(the military/defense split)it makes things easier and simplifies the research process a lot. keep the great content coming!

All of you sit down and play a decently-long game as all three races before you go and try to give suggestions. The game plays very differently from the viewpoints of the different races, so make sure you know what you're talking about before you start talking.

TEC starbases can build ships and self-destruct, but are immobile and have no weapons range to speak of. Their mines cost resources, are built from the tactical slot menu, and can only be built in controlled gravity wells.

Advent starbases can increase loyalty, promote culture, and automatically have two extra fighter squadrons, but lack front-line utility vs TEC and Ventari starbases and are immobile. Their mines are manually deployed from hangars and carriers, costing nothing and replenishing quickly, even in enemy-controlled gravity wells.

Ventari starbases have increased health and the ability to shrug off a certain amount of damage, as well as the unique ability to move around a gravity well to persue enemies. However, because of their slow speed, they are prone to chase scouts around if you're not paying constant attention to them, and are playing solitaire with themselves at the far end of the gravity well when the enemy attack arrives. Their mines are deployed by specific minelayer ships that are very difficult to control and direct, making them more useful to "tag along with" a regular fleet and drop their mines directly on top of the enemy forces. They are also free and can be placed in an enemy-controlled gravity well.

Now that you have learned a little something about the different race's starbases and mine-laying techniques, GO OUT THERE AND PLAY AS THEM AND LEARN EVEN MORE FOR YOURSELVES!!!

Have a nice day.

/smile

I just think anitminepossibilities are to underpowered, the mines arent overpowered.

I've experimented with all three races to this point, and started a longer game with the Advent now.  If starbases stay as they are powerwise, then I think the cost is probably about right. Also I don't think it's wrong that you can build one per gravity well if you want, though I don't see the direct benefit unless you have nothing else to spend resourses on. I do like the idea to have the constructors built by capital ship factories, and I wouldn't be against a cost increase IF the range on the starbases is increased.

As for mines, I agree with Cpt_Siddy in that it is going to be tricky to get the implementation right. Either they will be very powerful or not worth having if they aren't done right. I think they can be made to work if the dectection and removal is done right - meaning an other wise undefended gravity well can get cleared by sending in a fleet with a few scouts (possibly even minesweeper ships as mentioned elsewhere on the forum), and not having to constantly watch that things are being handled without major losses.

Aside from the TEC mines, I've found them difficult to use properly. The Vasari ruiner seems right, but it's hard to get the mines where you want them - it almost needs a create mine field in the selected region ability rather than the auto-drop that it has now.  The Advent homing mines don't seem to work right either, though I do like the idea. Most of the time they don't home properly (they just sit outside the hanger bay) and when they do the home properly it take them for ever to hit anything - they miss moving targets horribly.

Overall, I think the additions are good and will get the changes to make them right. I like the different methods of implementation for each race, and don't think major changes are needed (except maybe mine removal - but I'm not sure as I haven't had to do much of it yet), just some minor tweaks (starbase cost vs range, etc).

Enjoy.

Regarding using the mine-laying ships...  I found the best way to use them is to set them to autocast and queue up a zigzag pattern in the area where you want the mines.  Then just leave them to follow the path and drop mines as they go. If you group a few ships together, you get a pretty nice, dense field of mines.

I like the mine laying ships much more than I like the mine-squadron method.  The squadrons are a real pain to manage.

The advent homing mines are hanging around your hangar because once the squadron fills up, they auto-deploy.  You need to grab the squadron and move it or turn off autocast before that happens.  They will also auto-deploy if enemy units enter the gravity well before they fill up.

Once deployed, the advent homing mines only home on ships within a certain range... so the ones around your hangar will be largely useless until someone comes in for a close attack on the hangar.

Thanks for the tip with the Advent homing mines. I have tried the zig-zag path with the Vasari mine ships, though it was only a single ship and the result wasn't what I had hoped for. I'll try it with a few of the ships, I can see that it would work better if there were multiple ships dropping them at offset intervals.

i think there needs to be a way to target mines. it sucks going into a well defended star well and all of your lighter unit's get nuke'd. possably the garda or equivalent should be upgraded to target them? also i think the mines should not auto pin. it gets crazy when you have more than a 100 and your planet pin ends up in the middle of the screen.

I get so tired of hearing everyone say that mine's aren't too bad, since they cost 1000 credits, and they just need to take tactical slots.

Great... for the TEC. What about the other two races, who can build mines anywhere, and for free?

Mines desparately need a limit, but credit cost, tactical slots, or decay (defeats the whole purpose), isn't the answer.

I agree, by the way, that mines need less than 200hp. Frankly, they only need 1hp, in my opinion. They should be invisibile and invulnerable, but once detected, anything should one-shot-kill a mine.

Love the Star Bases and should be expanded on, adding more range - via research, or make all of them mobile, something along those lines.  Costs seem right on as they arent cheap to upgrade.

Mines need a limit or removed all together, the AI builds insane amounts of them, to the point of crashing the game.

Ouch, touche. Little slip-up of the keys over here. Thanks for calling me out on it.

That's it.

Right on. Garda mine detection upgrade. Same for Vasari and Advent vis-a-vis their defense frigate. I think weapon range on the defense frigates is around 3300. Maybe make detection range somewhere in the 1750 - 2000 range.

I would suggest the same upgrade for the support cap ship of all races (for TEC, I'm referring to the ship with the shield restore capability). AGain, detection range in the 1750 - 2000 regime.

I agree, mine-detection and countering abilities in the anti-fighter frigs makes sense. And putting them on one of the "support" caps also fits.

Another problem with the advent homing mines is that they all target one ship which means that cobalt with one hp is hit by 30 mines instead of the level 10 marza with 2 hp

No tactical slots needed. We just need a minesweeper class. Mines seem to me lik they should slow an attack rather than deal damage, but that is also because mines are so powerful right now.

Honestly though, i think that it would be fine if mines just slowed an enemy's advancement.

Note that one race (vasari, I think) has a gravity mine option that does indeed slow enemy forces.

If you only slow advancement, big carrier fleets can still be devastating, because of their strikecraft.

Perhaps there should be some area-effect weapons cruisers that can just sterilize sections of the gravity well.  They wouldn't have to be too powerful, just strong enough to clear minefields.  Could also be used in groups to pound densely packed installations.