Hero Class Generals

I would really like to hear more details on the generals too!!!

Yes more info

I've been holding the opinion that they are still in, but yes, more information would be nice.  This really is a big aspect of the appeal for those of us coming from SupCom and RTS fans in general. 

1. Generals are still in.

2. Generals directly control only their own units, which (from the sounds of the achievement files) will be fairly numerous.

Prove it I doubt you can

Achievement files?  I knew they were included, are they in the beta folder somewhere?

Trigeminal, the paths I found everything in are in the link below--or at least it was in beta 1. I'm not sure if they changed the 1A stuff.

Okay. From here:

From AbilityDefinitions.lua:

Generals look to have limited control over minions: there are abilities for rally to general and attack area.

Have you learned your lesson about making baseless insults? I doubt you have.

Nope not yet because all that code can change easily

Mmhmm. Y'know, the Vampire Lord was PLAYABLE at PAX this year, and he's a general. I'm pretty sure they're still in.

I mean, I guess you could be asking me to look into the future, but that's a little unrealistic.

Horse Radish... they way you are asking us to prove that the game will have generals is like asking us to prove that the game is still going to be released. Things can always change. I mean prove to me that you are going to wake up at a certain time tomorrow. You might. OR you might sleep through the alarm, your alarm might run out of batteries, or you might have a snow day (in the middle of summer, I know) at your school and have the day off, so you don't need to wake up early. A million different things could happen to change your plan. Can we expect any of them? Not unless I give you sleeping pills, take out the batteries, or bribe your principal. Point is, we can't PROVE the future so its unreasonable to ask us to.

As for proving what is true NOW, there has been no direct statement saying Generals are out, so why should we need to prove something that we have no reason to believe is false?

Honestly, I don't see any need for Generals to have direct control over rank-and-file zerglings, anyway. It's always been at least suggested that Generals would have their own Praetorian Guard, as it were, who would follow their lead and the General's overall focus would be on buffing and close direction. In fact, I can't think of a single pre-release bit of press that ever suggested otherwise, now that I flip back through my mental reference desk.

This is good, for the record. Just because you don't have direct control over the masses doesn't mean it's not RTS; it means it's not traditional RTS, and that can only be a plus with the wash of the genre that's taken place in the past few years. Pointedly, there's one directly similar RTS in the sense of indirect control, and that was Majesty ... which is, amusingly, getting a 3d polishing later. That's the sort of thing I want to see more of, and Demigod is right in the thick of innovating the field.

Squidlord:

I don't think general SHOULD have control of the spawn mob, but to be balanced with assassins, they shoukld have a strong self created mob with upgrades that can do serious damage.  This mobe should be comparable in strength at later levels to 3-4 catapultasauruses and 3-4 giants.  Obviosly, they shouldn't be these creatures, but comparable in strength.  They need to do damage and be able to take out an assassin demigod or they will be worthless.

Also, Majesty rocked.  One of those unique games that I found very rewarding.  I don't think that model of indirect control should apply here.  The mob should be controlable like a normal RTS group.  This game will obviosly not work on incentives.  The only way this would be helpful is for indirect control of the spawned mob.  The user mob should be direct control.

Right..To sum up -

I don't think anyone is looking for Generals to control all allied creeps.  Unique Praetorian Guard works fine. 

The zomg panic! started when an interviewer suggested that players would have control only over their DGs, and Tyo's response seemed to confirm that in the vaguest possible way. 

It wouldn't have been hard for Tyo to explain that there would be two classes of gameplay or DG, and past Dev publicity has included the distinction. 

The failure to do so, in such a marketingspeak way, raised suspicions.

A few things seem to point to the continued presence of Generals/RTS in Demigod:

1. An interview released at roughly the same time as the above has Tyo discussing Generals as a part of the game (counterpoint: interviews for large sites like IGN are often run a month or more after happening)

2. Generals and their minions are all over the LUA files, as well as being playable at PAX (counterpoint: the devs have since confirmed that they are having trouble balancing generals, and are looking at a hybrid assassin/general class as a result, i.e. things change)

3. Cowbutzex asked in another post if Generals had been removed from the game.  Kryo replied with a "no."  (counterpoint: HorseRadish pointed out that the question and answer did nothing to address the form Generals would take)

*The question of the week is whether Demigod will incorporate RTS elements, specifically control of unique minions* 

Frankly an RPG/RTS hybrid would be great, but if it isn't workeable so be it.  Explanations are great, and I'm betting they will come, if necessary, when Beta 2 is released in a month or two...

Not in a month or two.  Likely in November.  Two months is way too long.

Some Dev, I believe Frogboy, said it was coming in a few weeks. Hopefully that's less then 2 months, and even more hopeful, within the next month.

Honestly, I don't see any need for Generals to have direct control over rank-and-file zerglings, anyway

End of quote

Have any one of you ever played a RTS like AOE or SupCom?? If you don’t have the Micro what is the point?? This game started out by GPGnet as a groundbreaking RPG vs. the RTS. If you don’t have this micro in the game, what is the point ladder going to be IE the racking 1 vs. 1. I am so tired of all you talking about DOTA and the RPG side we have a say here also. I love the RPG I do but the real fun will be the RTS vs. RPG. If you don’t have the micro or a barracks to level up the creeps what is the point. So RTS post here and let your voice be heard. Zerglings this is Demigod not Starcraft so get it right Creeps not Zerglings.

 

 

I think the RTS/Micro element will be fine if the Generals are controlling their own personal guard rather than having control over all the creeps.  IN fact, that approach makes a lot more sense given the design of the game so far.

I think there is a huge problem if they have control over the spawned creep.  If I general 1 and team light want a group to go somewhere, what if general 2 has a different idea.  We will bothe be fighting over the spawned creep and it targets.  I love RTS games, I like the super complex.  I play RTS games that are more complex than you can even imagine, but we have to think about what will work for the dynamic of this game.  Trust me, when they release the generals, I will be giving crazy feedback on everything about them.  To me they are the most important part of the game.  I would like to see them have major bonuses for example:

1)  Cheaper upgrade cost for spawned creep.

2)  Cheaper upgrade to blacksmith (assuming iem upgrading is included).

3)  Bonuses to Spawned creep and demigods.

4)  Their own guard which can pack a reasonable punch when upgraded.

5)  "Superweapon" ability at level 15 (upgrade at 20) that can majorly shift power, but has a cooldown timer of 10 minutes.

These are some of my ideas, right now.  If you want to make a thread about general class ideas, I'll add even more and we can discuss.  But in my opinion, direct control of spawned creep drasticly changes (breaks) fundamental mechanic of the story.  Then again, who knows.

Dude are you for real cool down of 10 minutes this game takes to long now. On average the game runs 30 min.

We need to get the victory to 15 minutes and under. The goal to win in DG is to destory the Stronghold Not get to level 25.

So while you are leveling and creep farming i am winning the game.  45 second cool sould be the max.

Keep in mind this power should be llike a nuke.  I used it could take out multiple demigods or take out haldf of the stronghold.  It is a thought.  Maybe it doesn't work, but I thik it adds a real value to them.  Considering the effect, the timer should be long.  Again, we have to wait and see how they design the generals.

Trigeminal its about having control over your own creeps not about the portal-spawned one (those has already been confirmed to be not controllable by a general in any fashion at all).

Btw if you assume Generals can only build their special unit, Tyo said in that walkthrough video from PAX that as general you can make your own troop mix.

I hope we will have a good streamlined control over our minions, something like this one:

pressing Q : all your minions attack/move to the cursor position. (and guard/follow if its a own unit like a tower or allied Demigod)

pressing E  : all minions of the same type as you currently have selected with leftclick (right now that only shows the stats of the unit) move/attack to the position of your cursor

pressing R : the minion selected via leftclick attacks/moves to the position of your cursor

This approach would leave you always in complete control over your demigod (right click is attack/move as usual, 1-4 is skills and F1-F4 is  items), needs only 3 buttons and yet offers you very deep control over your minions.

TheBigOne-->  I understand it is about controlling user created, not spawned creep.  The problem is some people think that spawned creep should be controllable and if not then this is not a true RTS.  I am that this is not essential, and possibly detrimental.

I like TBO idea, controlling your own units with a set of orders. that way you actualy add a half-strategy dimension to the generals.

We all can agree that demigod can't play as a complete RTS game where you control all creeps because alot of reasons like Trigeminal mentioned and more.

I also think you sould not empower them by any mean, their own units will do the trick.

they can mayby add a creep special modifier or something that but not realy necessary.