satanists are people too

the british royal navy registers its' first 'satanist'

from JoeUser Forums

 

According to BBC News, the British Armed forces has given permission for 24 year old Chris Cranmer to officially register as a ‘Satanist’, which will allow Mr. Cranmer, a Naval Technician, to perform 'satanic rituals' on board Naval vessels.

Mr. Cranmer says that he became a Satanist around nine years ago, after reading a copy of “The Satanic Bible” by Anton Szandor LaVey, who founded the Church Of Satan in San Francisco in 1966 (and remained its' high priest until his death in 1997).

Church of Satan followers live by the ‘Nine Satanic Statements’, which include "indulgence instead of abstinence", "vengeance instead of turning the other cheek" and "(committing) all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification".

Mr. Cranmer, who is from Edinburgh, is now lobbying the Ministry of Defence to make Satanism a registered religion in the armed forces, with a spokesman for the Royal Navy saying that “We are an equal opportunities employer and we don't stop anybody from having their own religious values."

Former Tory minister Ann Widdecombe said she was "utterly shocked" by the Royal Navy's decision, stating that "Satanism is wrong. Obviously the private beliefs of individuals anywhere, including the armed forces, are their own affair but I hope it doesn't spread".

She added that "The Royal Navy should not permit Satanist practices on board its ships. God himself gives free will, but I would like to think that if somebody applied to the Navy and said they were a Satanist today it would raise its eyebrows somewhat" .

 

 

*Quoted text from : Link

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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

I have always thought that people make too much of a fuss over satanism.  I think that, rather than it being about 'evil', it's more about self-gratification and indulgence.  Where as Christianity is about self-denial in the name of the common good, satanism is more 'screw everyone else, I'm looking out for me'.

This dude shuld be allowed to practice his faith as he wishes...as long as he's not doing anything illegal or that compromises his postion as a member of her Maj's Navy, I don't see what the issue is...

Oh, and Ann Widdecombe is a....*sigh*...never mind.  It wouldn't have been very nice, so I'll just shut up.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
so...is he going to be raping and pillaging and murdering on the Naval ship? They should let him! It's his religion!;p
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
What I find interesting about satanists is that they hate the God that is adored by the "God" they worship.

Marco
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
I would think they should kick this guy out of the Navy for espousing beliefs that are contrary to the spirit of naval service.

If you view Satanism as a philosophy, then it is more properly called "egoistic hedonism", which is to say that making oneself happy is the proper goal of all conduct. With the "nine satanic principles" thrown in, you pretty much completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires.

If you view Satanism as a religious activity, then I would have to say it pretty obviously qualifies rather as a cult than a religion and is clearly not deserving of the status that they have accorded it.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
would think they should kick this guy out of the Navy for espousing beliefs that are contrary to the spirit of naval service.


I thought the spirit of naval service was blowing things up...alright...all in the name of defence and freedom, but blowing things up nonetheless or supporting things that blow other things up. Right?

My opinion of religion is similar to my opinion of the news - once enough people believe in it, it effectively becomes truth. If one person believes in it, i wouldn't want to be that person. The men in white have their spies. If some believe but not enough, then yes, it's a cult or at the very least a conspiracy theory.

Marco
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
God is alive and well and selling used tyres in North Eastern Ohio.... and laughing his ass off.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Agree 100% with citahellion. How can you fight for something you totally hate??? And if it's only for the matter of blowing things up, then they become criminals. I think it's dangerous... Letting crazy dudes with the greatest military material in the world ...huh... are you sure about that???
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
I just think it is pretty freakin funny, Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see what the issue is...
He might aim a 16 inch naval gun at his captain.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
Mr. Cranmer, who is from Edinburgh, is now lobbying the Ministry of Defence to make Satanism a registered religion in the armed forces, with a spokesman for the Royal Navy saying that “We are an equal opportunities employer and we don't stop anybody from having their own religious values."
Saturday Night Live?
completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires.
Great point.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian


I wouldn't necessarily say he's confused. The true satanist, as you point out, believes in the existence of God, but specifically rejects the message of salvation/redemption, since the cost (abstinence, denial, etc.) is too high in the here and now, while the purported payoff is lurking down the road somewhere, and presumably some other form of payoff can be achieved by joining the upper echelons of the denizens of the damned. Nothing confused about it, just a different valuation of the options.

The lip-service satanist, on the other hand, espouses the ideals of egoistic hedonism without bothering himself as to what may happen in the great hereafter.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
What i find amusing is that the US Military has recognized satanism as a religion for years. I would love to meet that chaplain!
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
If he is a true satanist, it would then seem to me that he also would disavow all of the Ten Commandments as set down by God Himself. These are pretty much the basis for all morality, and would include, of course, the law against murder and theft.
I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck on a ship with a jerkoff who has no moral compunction against murder or thievery.

Then again, give it time and he'll most likely be tossed overboard by some of his more zealous shipmates, anyhow. Problem solved.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

These are pretty much the basis for all morality, and would include, of course, the law against murder and theft.  I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck on a ship with a jerkoff who has no moral compunction against murder or thievery

excellent points, rightwinger. and nice to 'meet' you. a major discussion point here has been the way this would negatively influence onboard operations to a point were safety could be compromised. i agree with you fullly, thankyou for adding this.

What i find amusing is that the US Military has recognized satanism as a religion for years. I would love to meet that chaplain!

silky, now THAT i did not know !. thankyou for adding that. do you know if many are practising ?

Great point

indeed, stevendedalus, i coudn't agree more. there's futher reference to this in this enormous comment. (if you can bear to keep reading it !)

He might aim a 16 inch naval gun at his captain.

yuck, stevendedalus ! hehe. but seriously, i have been trying to 'follow' this news to see exactly what type of 'rituals' this fellow is allowed to perform, and if they fit within the law. if they don't, it's a pretty useless verdict for him anway !.

I just think it is pretty freakin funny, Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian.

ssg geezer, thankyou for the laugh ! . i think he's just a confused fellow, full stop !

How can you fight for something you totally hate???

a great point, island_gurl12, in that this may also have a negative outcome for the team members working with this man.

God is alive and well and selling used tyres in North Eastern Ohio.... and laughing his ass off

dang ! and here i was thinking He was k.d. lang ...

If some believe but not enough, then yes, it's a cult or at the very least a conspiracy theory.

marco and citahellion, i read your comments leading up to this, and i must say i'm pleased to have an exchange to read from two of my very favourite minds. the point of this article being that the navy has 'officially' registered satanism as a 'religion' bears relevance to this, too, as citahellion mentioned. this may be instrumental in other 'official' recognitions of other 'religions'. and as marco mentioned, there can be a 'one man religion' - what's to stop THAT guy proclaiming he has 'rights' under 'his' 'religion'. sorry about all the ' (hehe).

With the "nine satanic principles" thrown in, you pretty much completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires

an interesting point, citahellion, in that these 'principles' may compromise the safety of other workers, or may expose them to unsavoury practices. this is such a grey area, i was hoping for input such as this.

What I find interesting about satanists is that they hate the God that is adored by the "God" they worship.

marco, i can always rely on you for logic. bravo for making me smile, even at this stuff !

so...is he going to be raping and pillaging and murdering on the Naval ship? They should let him! It's his religion

as dharma said, wuxiaomao, as long as he's not breaking the law ... but we don't know that part yet.

*laugh*

Silly religions.

so well said, myrrander !

satanism is more 'screw everyone else, I'm looking out for me'. This dude shuld be allowed to practice his faith as he wishes...as long as he's not doing anything illegal

i like your summation of satanism, dharma. it's very neat and real. i wish i'd thought of it. from what i can gather, there may be some legal areas regarding what 'rituals' he intends to perform, but that stuff has yet to come to light. i'm trying to follow it, so i'll pass that on if i can find out.

mig XXX

 

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have run into a few practicing satanists in the Army, Also a few druids, lots of Wiccans, many many Buddhists, and Christian religions of every stripe. There really isn't much difference in their work attitudes, so I really don't think it is a real big deal. I think mental instability in anyone serving is a much bigger worry.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
Something interesting (and kind off-topic, sorry mig!) that I've noticed is that the Army base here offers services for Roman Catholics, All Saints Liturgical Service (Lutheran / Episcopal), Gospel, Jewish, Islamic, Orthodox, Pagan (Wicca), Contemporary Protestant, and Protestant . . . some of which are held in the same building!
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
In my opinion, the only comment worth the time it took to type it, with the exception of the initial post, is by Geezer. Everything else is supposition, and some border on character assassination of someone I would bet none of you know anything about or have ever met.

To all you that berate this guy you've never even seen on the street as a self-centered threat to society, remember that there is a difference between being concened for yourself to the exclusion of all others and being concerned primarily with your own wellbeing. Just because he believes in putting himself first does not mean he places no value in the directions, wellbeing, and situations of others.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

remember that there is a difference between being concened for yourself to the exclusion of all others and being concerned primarily with your own wellbeing.

i do agree with this statement, sirmetman, although the difficulty seems to lie in the blending of a religion that encourages such things as theivery and lying with an institution designed to serve and protect. it would of course depend on the individuals' application of their 'rights' under their religion, and how far they will go in following its' rules, but acting in a way designed to bring about disorder and unhappiness whilst at work could potentially lead to the endangerment of others. thankyou for your input, and nice to 'meet' you.

the Army base here offers services for Roman Catholics, All Saints Liturgical Service (Lutheran / Episcopal), Gospel, Jewish, Islamic, Orthodox, Pagan (Wicca), Contemporary Protestant, and Protestant . . . some of which are held in the same building!

that indeed sounds like a tribute to good organisation plus co-operation, texas !

Something interesting (and kind off-topic, sorry mig!)

i'm always up for a little sideways topic movement, texas. you're welcome anytime

There really isn't much difference in their work attitudes, so I really don't think it is a real big deal. I think mental instability in anyone serving is a much bigger worry.

that's very interesting, ssg geezer. thanks for your balanced view on this. it goes to show that the potential harm of something can mean more than its actual application. .

mig XXX

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
There is no reason why, as a stanist, you couldn't percievce the advancement and protection of civil society as a direct benefit to yourself, and thus serving for the gov't would be an advancement of your own self-interest.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
"There is no reason why, as a stanist, you couldn't percievce the advancement and protection of civil society as a direct benefit to yourself, and thus serving for the gov't would be an advancement of your own self-interest."

Does this mean that in satanism, the N° 1 rule is self gratification? I really thought it was the total opposite of what christianism teaches us (love, compassion, etc...)

Forgive my ignorance, i am willing to learn:)
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
some of which are held in the same building!
Now that's ecumenical!!
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
SiRMetMan,
just because SSGG is the only one who mentioned his satanic credentials doesn't mean he's the only one who has them. It's been a long time since I read the Satanic Bible, and it's been a long time since I lived with a Satanist, but I have done both.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
cita, he is the only one with any experience, as far as I know, with the imediate issue of satanists in the military. I have had satanist friends, but I would not concider myself to have enough practical knowlege to really speak on what effect being a stanist would have in the armed services.

And Island Girl, as far as I know, yes, the key tenant of satanism is self gratification. It's not specifically anti-Bible, it's more a-bible, if that makes sense.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

thanks for your comments, everyone. i'm sorry i didn't answer. for some reason i thought this was the spammer. the issue here has divided into several areas.


the issue of the way an individual seeking personal gratification can make them potentially unsuitable for their duties is a strong one, and as we can see from the comments, the individual concerned would either need to suspend these views whilst on active duty, or make a commitment to his co-workers that he would be prepared to override these 'out for yourself only' orders in the event of selflessness being required - part of the job of Navy personnel.


that the individual concerned be seen as someone who seeks betterment for the world through active service, despite my agreement that this the most desirable outcome in this situation, i myself do not feel that the individual concerned would commit to satanism initially if he had this mindset.


these were all valid points. thankyou island gurl, citahellion, stevendedalus and sirmetman for your very welcome imput, this was just what i was hoping for.


mig XX