The Failure of Our Schools

Why don't you just say what you want to say?  Exactly what is the programming these kids are supposed to be receiving?  My boys are in public schools and they ARE learning.  They know about history and algebra and how to write a short story. 

I never said they didn't learn. They just get taught too much crap with the good acceptable stuff.

And, how is that different than 20 years ago?  You never can have a perfect learning environment, especially when you have such diverse classrooms.

Nonsense. The perfect learning environment makes everyone feel safe, challenges everyone, and uses only efficient curiculum.

Diversity has nothing to do with it. Diversity should be accepted, not viewed as a problem. Individual tutoring may be necessary for those who learn differently, but it would not cripple the system.

And where are you going to get the money for that individual tutoring?

I'm a Christian teaching in a public classroom.  I guess I'm a little confused as to what you think public school teachers are "brainwashing" their students with.  I "brainwash" my students to treat one another with respect and dignity, and I REQUIRE it in my classroom.  For the small percentage of the day that I have them, I do the best I can to try to teach them to be good thinkers, kind and generous people who care about themselves and others.  I don't think that's "crap."  We learn how to tell time to the nearest five minutes, we learn comprehension strategies and we learn how to decode tricky words.  We learn about the Pledge of Allegiance, our flag, and our country.  We learn about the life cycles of butterflies.  We learn how to estimate and how to count money and make change.  We learn how to add and subtract two digit numbers with regrouping.

I don't think any of that is crap.  I think its necessary.  Sex ed in school?  A necessity.  Parents have the right to take their child out of things like sex ed if they'd prefer they not learn it in school. 

Schools are not perfect by any means, and that is because we are imperfect people.  Teachers make mistakes, students make mistakes, parents make mistakes.  And it's all a part of learning and growing, and that is what school is all about.

That's good. But don't you ever wish that you had freedom to teach your own culture? The most about Christianity I got taught was from Romeo and Juliet. Or the hate-speech.

But the problem is that people are brainwashed via extremes, not trained to tolerate. It's one thing to let something continue, it's another entirely to break down moral fiber.

Though, I was private schooled until high school, so maybe I only saw the worse half.

So why don't you specifically state what your issues are?  You think that public schools should have a Christian curriculum?  You think there should be prayer in school?  I wish you would just come out and say what you are trying to say.  Exactly what do you think is the problem.  I can't really tell because you are writing in such huge generalities. 

Yes.

I think that the curriculum is to the point where it's willing to defend anything but Christianity, and goes out of its way to attack it.

I went to Catholic school and prayed every morning and I felt no difference between that and when I went to public school. If I wanted my boys to pray at school, I would send them to a religous school. I don't think prayer in schools is this magical thing that makes society better or worse.

So you think there should be a Christian prayer at school? You think non-Christians should have to say a prayer that they don't believe in? Should the Christian children be forced to say a Jewish/Muslim/Hindu prayer? We don't live in a theocracy, thank God!

I think that there should be a freedom for teachers and students to do what they want on both sides of the spectrum, not just one.

Soon they'll be singing hymns to Darwin.

Prayer in school isn't going to "fix" the ills of society, unfortunately.

As a teacher, it's not my job to say yea or nay to Christian beliefs or any other beliefs. That is for families to decide. That DOESN'T stop me from *trying* to show my students Christ's loves without wearing a "JESUS LOVES YOU!" shirt and making me pray. Living by example, the best we can, is the best way to show people, especially kids, about God's love. People don't care what you say, they care about how you treat them.

Also, as a teacher, I don't put the kebash on students' talk about God. I don't get involved, and I let them have their conversations. It's interesting what 7 and 8 year olds have to say about God. They're way smarter than we give them credit for. If a child asks if I go to church, I say yes, but I don't go any further. If they ask me if I'm Mormon, I say no, and I don't go any further. Catholic students last year asked me to their first communions and I went. A Mormon student asked me to his baptism, and I would have went had I not been ready to puke.

I don't know ANY teacher that I've ever had that has blantantly stated there is no God. I think most teachers realize that kind of teaching is for the home. If you're that worried about your kids being brainwashed, make them a tinfoil hat or something, dude.

Yes, but it's a token gesture towards equality.

As a teacher, it isn't your job to say yea or nay to Christian beliefs. But schools teach a "nay" standpoint.

Teachers aren't supposed to put "the kebash" on students' theological discussion. Nor are they supossed to guide it.

I know of at least one teacher that I have had that has tought only the Evolution (hey,  it's a religion) side of orgin, not Creationism, and that in itself is saying that there is no God.

I don't have children.

Prayer in school is NOT a gesture towards equality, it's exclusive.  I live in a fairly religious area, but my guess is that less than 50% of children in America's schools attend church or even know what prayer is. 

How do you know schools teach a "nay" standpoint?  When was the last time you were actually in a public school?  Evolution is NOT a religion, it is a theory.  I believe in evolution as a Christian.  Evolution is the process by which something changes as it progresses.  It does NOT mean that humans began as a one celled organism that spontaneously happened and crawled out of radioactive sludge.  Humans have changed as human history has progressed.  We are taller.  People who live in sun-saturated areas have darker skin and eyes.  That is evolution.  Maybe my small school in the middle of nowhere was unique, but we were taught the "big-bang" THEORY.  We also learned that there is a THEORY that a higher being created our universe.  I know what I believe, but in my high school, neither was presented as fact.  The fact is, no one was there for either theory, but we know SOMETHING happened, because we're here, aren't we? 

If you have a problem with what is taught in schools, talk to your congresspeople.  Write letters, emails, call.  You CANNOT generalize your experience with one school, and one teacher, to schools ALL across America.

It's a moot point whether or not you have children.  If you're that concerned about whether your FUTURE children might be brainwashed in a public school, you'd better start saving tuition money.

Erathoniel, I think you are way off on this one. If you have a problem with public schools, when you have children, by all means send them to a religous school or homeschool them.

Yes, but if they do not know what prayer is, but know what Evolution is, is it fair?

I've been through the Evolution scholarly set, and it's a religion. It's everything I hate about Christianity. I'm not saying that it couldn't have happened under God, but secular "Big Bang -> Evolution" progression is a religion in and of itself. I was never taught a "creation theory" in my textbook, only my mediatonary science teacher taught that.

I notice your lack of faith in my ability to write here, but not to congress.
I am not generalizing. This is what is taught, everywhere.

I'm not terribly concerned about future children at this point, not yet. And even then, why be concerned about only my children?

I was homeschooled at one point, and I may consider it for any future children of mine.

Evolution is not a religion.

So they say. But it is a belief taking up the slot of religion, is it not?

Education really isn't about "fair."  Is it fair that students who have difficulty learning get to go to special classes?  Why don't gifted students get more special classes?  Education, really, is about doing the best with what you've got these days.  We barely have enough time to teach the basics, let alone teaching Christian "tolerance" to the Buddhist, Muslim, etc. students at school.  You teach kids that people are people no matter what.  That's all you can do.

I honestly don't see how someone can "worship" evolution.  That's a religion to me.  And just because YOU weren't presented with creationism doesn't mean that millions of other students haven't been.

I definitely think that homeschooling would probably be the best option for your family.  I can't see your children succeeding in a public school because a teacher could do NOTHING right in your eyes.  And what if your child got a teacher that wasn't Christian, heaven forbid? 

Or even better, a GAY teacher?  Or your kids had to go to school with a child who had gay parents?  Oh, the heresy!

 

Schools are meant to be ONE of many sources of knowledge.  Education does not just pertain to schools.  Unfortunately, for many families...the mindset is there that you go to school to learn and then come home to....do whatever.  Some of the brightest students I had where the ones where the parents / guardians took charge of their childs education (not the teacher) and made sure learning was taking place at home as well. 

As far as ideology...that shouldn't take place in schools. I don't want the way I teach creating a certain mindset in the students. They need to learn themselves.  I want to create the opportunities for learning and make sure learning it taking place, but when I take away their ability to be themselves, I take away a ton of who they are. 

This is incorrect. Students are capable of so much, I believe that it is beyond the comprehension of many people.  That is why we often refer to them lovingly as sponges...just soaking it up.  Their grades suffer when they take on extra out of school activities, IF they are allowed to suffer and fail.  However, much learning takes place in out of school activities, probably more than anyone will know.  IE...I had some students in wrestling last year. Their focus during the school day wasn't on school, but on this that or the other thing.  Their grades slipped a bit...and to me...that was OK, perfectly fine.  Because, when they wrestled, they were allowed to be themselves moreso than they can be in school.  They could apply what they learned and succeed.  While they might not have been academic scholars in my class, they wre able to do something outside of class which made themselves proud, their families proud, and in a couple of circumstances...the city proud of themselves.  And when it comes to elementary school...too much focus is on grades...A's, B's...etc.  People need to get out of the mentality that they are working for a letter. 

this programming line is pathetic.  I mean, any decent example of a type of proof worth anything would be helpful here.

You seem to be referring moreso to middle and high schools where classes are broken down and subjects are taught by different teachers.  This allows a type of specialization in schools, being taught by someone who has somewhat extensive knowledge in an area.  Its not programming, but a focused education.  Our schools are set up to learn X, Y, and Z during ABC timeframe...and often in the upper levels of schooling, departments decide when to teach such parts of the curriculum to maximize learning.  

As far as discomfort...often that is because of limitations (good) put in place by parents, communities, school boards...etc.  At the same time, I don't think people are oppressed.  Take for example...Christians.  Tons of people have this whacko belief that we should teach Creationism.  Well which version of creationism? Which Christian version of Creationism?  So yeah, lets make the Christians happy because they can't teach it at home for some odd reason.  But why not teach about Buddhism in science class, or the Native American view point? HEck, why not just have one science (based on proven theories) class based on all the thosands upon thousands of views on how the world was created, so we don't 'oppress' anyone?

Religion does not belong in schools as far as in regards to scientific classes. when taught in terms of history, then it CAN be accepted.  But no matter how you look at it, teaching creationism is teaching religion and that does not belong in schools. 

Dont take me that direction, dont want to see my shadow. The road to unfamiliar. I never want to go. - Leaderdogs for the Blind.

so before i plead my case, before we start again, do you know your place? do you understand who started this? have you thought this through? and who is it you answer to, do you think i still care too? i'm afraid this one's on you - AP2

In regards to Creationism being taught in schools I have a question:

Since this is a pluralistic nation, respecting the religious views of all citizens why can't we estbalish a pluralistic educational system?

Some schools could teach from the traditional Judeo-Christian base, others from the secular base.  Parents could choose the institutions their children would attend.  Or both POV's could respectflly and objectively be included in the classroom allowing the students to choose for himself what to believe.  After all, humanists claim that they believe in "free inquiry" do they not? 

So why not let the students hear both sides and make up his own mind?  Anything less is nothing short of brainwashing.  A pluralistic school system would not be hostile to the teaching of scientific creationism but would admit that many very credible scientists hold this view. 

I wrote on my blog concerning this subject yesterday showing that in 1987 the American Bar Assoc, made up of a very liberal membership, took a vote on this and came up with 62%  saying teaching both did not violate the first amendment of separation of chuch and state. 

And I do believe, as do many others, that Evolution is indeed a religion.  Anything that replaces God and inserts man or anyone or anything else is a false belief system in the eyes of God. 

 

 

 

It's not about people, it's about the system.

I've had non-Christian teachers just as good as Christian ones.

The Bible was used in one school for teaching history, and instead of saying "God", they had to say "The Deity" (though, granted, the Old Testament, so it could've been done for the benefit of Jewish students).

But is not teaching the Big Bang and Evolution attempting to replace Christianity?

Teach everything, I don't care. I'm an amateur theologian, and that means I try to learn about all faiths.

 

The voucher system would allow parents to choose whatever school their kids would go to, but I have issues with that, too. 

God help all of you, that's what I have to say.

This doesnt make sense...so I might be reading it wrong.  It seems you are asking if they replace Christianity by teaching Big Bang and Evolution theories.

I don't think they are.  Mainly because when you replace something you take something and substitute it for something else. They aren't doing that because...they aren't taking it away.  It is a scientific theory.  In many ways, so is Creationism.  However, the scientific facts behind the Evolution theories hold more weight in the scientific world. 

Granted, many people have theories about creationism and such...but scientifically its hard to back up. 

Either way, even IF we allowed creationism, thats another whole can of worms there too because there are umpteen different versions of creationism out there, Christian and non Christian...leading me to my next point...

So am I...I took a world religions class in college as an elective, to learn more about world religions and beliefs.   But the problem with religion and schools is that, in each and every branch of every faith out there, there are individual versions of how the world was created, thousands upon thousands of versions...and probably more than that.  All very realistic (to the believers) theories.  How do we choose to teach this in a scientific class?  I doubt that the creation of the world takes up much time in the classroom anyways. 

Now let me clarify.  I dont' think we should be taeching the different religions viewpoints in a scientific class, however....I would personally like to see more religion in schools.  Moreso from a historical perspective (taking the worlds biggest events involving religion...etc)....maybe offering an elective to high school students on world religions...etc.  Something they can choose to study. 

I'm saying they are. Secular humanism is recognized by judges as a religion.

Scientifically prove Evolution or the Big Bang.

Why, however, would it be necessary to teach any orgin, since it doesn't really matter if you choose the secular worldview anyways.