I agree.

Clinton definitely made it massively worse by forcing Fannie and Freddie to buy bad loans to push his minority housing agenda, but we'd still be running into it without his help.  It would be a lot smaller though, maybe half?

Btw, if we do collapse, the rest of the world will follow us with twice the bang for their buck.  If the US cuts their consumption of oil in half for instance, the oil states will be burning the shit off on the ocean to try and get the price back up above five bucks a barrel.  Russia would collapse over night, they'd probably end up in another revolution since a good number of them are already pissed at the current leadership for anti democratic activities.  We also supply a rather significant portion of the worlds food, we produce over twice as much food per population as China does for instance.  The other major exports disappearing wont bother people too much, but not being able to import here will collapse what remains of South America, Mexico, the Asians that haven't starved, Europe is already going down the toilet faster than we are.

I have no fear of us losing our super power status due to this economic hiccup, worst case scenario, India and Pakistan have a nuclear war when food gets tight and the radicals take over Islamabad, Russia goes back to being a democracy without an economy, the Arabs starve and force Isreal to kill a hell of a lot more of them than the first time around, the Africans starve and resume killing each other in ernest, a lot of Chinese starve and get their population down to a reasonable level, some south Americans starve because they're too lazy, and things pick back up with a billion people less in the world a decade later.

Hmm, you are not implying only communist societies can come up with an efford such as this because capitalistic sociesties simply lack the potential to do so, are you? That is an interesting point.

After all much of our current space technology was developed during the cold war, with Russia having a head start.

The US only caught interest into a space programm after the Sputnik shock, desperately trying to prove they are indeed capable of the same. Furter it was to showcase missile range power because any power picking up a programm reaching the moon can surely build ICBMs.

"We are a superpower", very much like China is doing at the moment.

Interestingly the US won the race, proving very well capitalist societies CAN do it. The problem is the motivation. Its a shame decent process can only be seen during times of conflict.

Capitalist society thrives on efficency. You use resources to gain more resources and so on. Actually, its a pretty self-run system and decision making has slipped a bit from our grasp. If a situation arises where long therm damage will result with a big payoff, that situation WILL be exploited. If a big player decides against it he will put himself on a disadvantage, and the next will take up the opportunity. The system is seriously flawed in a way it puts a lot of power in the hands of people wich are the least to trust this decision making with. In fact much of our decision making process is computer run, analyzing opportunities and directing the course of action. Are humans in charge at all? Or is it some kind of mechanical process?

So the real issue is that most people simply do not take the efford seriously. They are absolutely capable of an efford but only use it for showcasing missile power or mass manipulation purposes - or a morale factor, if you prefer that expression. Something with short time revenues.

People in general seem not to be interested into the future. Thats odd. I personally do not belive a race that deprived of survival instinct has any chance of a continued existance.

Still as the catastropical evidences of their failiure is slowly piling up there is undeniably some learning effect going on. I wonder if people will one day make the leap of awareness to realize that the people they currently curse for being responsible for the desasters of our time had exactly the same attitude they feature currently, driving furter future generations into deeper problems. Relizing that there is really not difference between "them" and "us", and a change of attitude is neccesary.

We need quite a bit more idealistic values in our current society models. The sad fact is that we currently abandon them. Of course we pay in blood for it at some point.

Case in point "this is of no concern to us" is a critical faliure wich the evolutionary process is sorting out currently. Either we let it go or we will be sorted out. There is not only an evolution of body, also there is an evolution of the mind.

Will humanity be able to make the leap?

The point was "its insanely expensive", wich means under capitalisitc society systems it has a not a very good chance to be ever considered because society is geared twoards "making economic decisions", and it leads to a certain trend, leaving only those people in charge. Economic decisions are NOT always the right decision. As i already outlined the US space program came only into existance because of the Russian space program. For flexing muscles. Not really taken seriously as scientific efford. It was more a morale issue. Clearly important, but after the goal was achived the entire development cheased more or less (manned spaceflight). They did NOT continue to explore neighbouring planets, even if the technology is absolutely at the level. The Russian program was started without outside motivation. They developed this on their own. Clearly it was used during the cold war for espionage and flexing muscles also, but it was not intended to do that in the first place. The cold war applications (Sputnik) were merely a byproduct of that efford. Of course a not unwelcome byproduct. A very un-economic developement and at the very beginning a purely scientific efford. What happened to the planned manned Mars mission of the US? Without a reason there is no progress here.

I agree that this were never your words, i just made an interpretation and draw the apropriate conclusions, going a step further. I am sorry if this upset you.

The ability to think is no replacement for survival instinct. Both have to go hand in hand. If one disregards the survival of the entire race as "unimportant because its not going to happen soon" i spot a certain lack in survival instinct. Also the ability "to think" saves us not from foolish decisions if a certain degree of financial profit is involved (and honestly, when exploiting resources where isn't it?), so that leads to a kind of "intelligence override function" and that is hardly adding to our ability to think. Quite the contrary, it adds to a situation where all technology of a thinking race gets recklessly employed for personal gain. So case in point, forgive me for saying so, on a global level as a whole humanity is not capable of "survival intellect" in my opinion. Because they do not participate in those decisions. They rather employ a mathematical approach for investment/gain, and thats a very poor basis for troughly thought decisions. Every bacteria colony acts like that. We completely abandoned it. We don't HAVE to act like that but we DO.

Colonizing new worlds and creating new habitats is a long therm process and needs long therm planing and efford. The current issue of our sun having a limited amount of fuel requires absolutely an exodus from the solar system (and to be honest you can not evacuate an entire planet). Also it may be a big surprise we already have most of the required technology. The main problem of creating a long time stable encapsuled enviroment is not as challenging as as pincering holes into space-time and quite possible. Fully aware of that its rather coldblooded to ignore its necessity until those times come where we are threatened in extinction, instead of accepting the callenge of creating new colonies (wich every non-sentint lifeform would do without a second of delay) making humanity less susceptable to planetary desasters (wich we set already into motion). Humanity is not going forth and prospering, its sitting there and waiting for extinction. This is a very illogical course of action.

I am not suggesting that a capitalistic society is the wrong way to do it. However i am insisting that more has to be included into long term planning than considering only material wealth as being the one important factor. The current "issues" do not require abandoning the planet because its a soft slap of the universe giving us a hint to the right direction. Ignoring it will result in more problems till they become fatal at one point. Its up to humanity as a whole to realize it - or clear the stage for the next efford of the universe.

We do not really have a choice here.

Military technology = superpower

Economy ≠ superpower

-That's why even with the economic conditions right now in America which is dire, it dosn't mean it will not remain the superpower. Also, the question is if it will always remain the superpower which is actually impossible for it to happen. Look at the Roman empire which was in power for centuries. So, the same with USA, it will be centuries and even more if something dramatic happens but it's a big IF? It's certainly not going to happen in our lifetime.

Well the Romans may have Said live and let live but they certainly werent letting any of the places they conquered to live and let live. They were moer imperialistic then we are (by we I mean the US)

But yes America will decline. Military equaled the superpower last millenia this millenia econimic power will trump military power. Furthermore if you dont have a strong economy you cant fund a strong Military. We've already begun our decline in so many ways. Healthcare, Education, Living standards.

I woulnt count America out for the count tho. If our history has shown us anything its that this country is very ressilient and able to hurdle great challenges and bounce back from them.

Theres alot that needs to be done tho and fixing the economy and energy independance are front and center.

In a sense empires, nations always die and begin anew, yet as a "xtreme version of I love America" kind of guy, i lke to think that America will live forever. this is not possibly True, but the essence of freedom and a "old glory" (US flag) is what makes the US different from many.

Though in truth, I think it the real sense the US will die off, but always something new will start, that will be influenced by the US. Take the Roman empire, its history and influnced shaped Europe, the greek literature still lives on as still intrigues us. Even the senate type system that was from the romans, before the evtual rise of the empire, it existed. In a way Roman civilization is still the super power, and i think it the same for the US.

In the mean time before the fall of anything the US is still the super power, because with so much US culture spread across the world, (think of SOSE culutre) the more you have the more powerful and stonger influence you have on other nations and its people.

Note: This may seem Unnecessary I am Chinese born in the US, live in the Philippines, and I like the US, and i do not preferably like China as a superpower. The country in my view lack values and limits on selfishness (at this point in time), such as China Menaline milk scare that puts poison in everyday milk products, (careful what you drink or eat it maybe poison). Though the US had problems with vaules and racism in the pass, they learned to overcome them and accept everyone eventaully.

This aint a blog.......it's a forum.

oh yes I forgot the ten trillion debt that Clinton had to deal with, oh wait it was only five trillion, the current administration built up more debt than the entire debt of all preceding administrations combined!  We knew even before he took office what would happen if we piled on that much debt. So I will be happy to say that the current administration is responsible for only 50% of the problem and that all the rest of the administrations over the last fifty years are responsible for the other 50%.  I will exclude from that list only those who presented and pushed for a balanced budget.  As for the economic mistakes that occurred, could you name one that Bush inherited that he did not have time to correct during the last eight years? (I will even exclude the first two years of his administration from responsibility for any changes that needed to be addressed)

The policies that brought about the current economic collapse also were started under his administration.

This is not happen out of the blue, that is true, and many of us saw this coming a few years ago. Now it is here and most of it is a direct result of the policies of the administration that has controlled the White House for the last eight years.

Also, would you be so kind as to point out just one thing that Clinton did that contributed to this mess that the current administration could not have corrected over the last six years?

i dont beleive so as the US caused the current economical crisis.

Well technically it shouldn't be considered a superpower as a superpower is supposed to describe a clear leader in terms of diplomatic, economic and military strength.

Honestly? No, America won't always be a Super-Power. Everything comes to an end eventually. The story of the rise and eventual fall of America mirrors the story of human evolution and human nature.  I believe when the day comes that America falls the world will be at war. There probably won't be many other governments in the world at this point.

Human beings are violent, cruel, destructive creatures by nature. Sure there are plenty of us who chose to think our way out of problems instead of just attacking it, but not enough of us to change the big picture. We are Greedy by nature. Humans always want more then what it takes to sustain them. As we spread and cover the planet we use more and more of it's resources. Many of the resources we use are Non renewable. The world is on the brink of a massive energy crisis and no one wants to look at it long term. There have been attempts here lately to bring the energy crisis to the forefront of the news but that didn't last too long. A year ago you couldn't watch the news without hearing something about the "Energy Crisis" and Hybrids and other ways to go "Green". Now when you watch the news all you hear about is the failing economy, politics, and war.

America is the modern equivalent of the Roman Empire whether we want to admit it or not. Need I remind you all no-one ever thought the grand Roman Empire would fall. Especially not to a bunch of barbarians. But it did. As such we too will one day fall. Either from conquest by an outside influence or War, or by another civil war (if we have another civil war it won't be about race, it'll be about politics), or we'll die from global change and disasters. Our climate is changing....rapidly. I'm 31 years old. I'm old enough to have Seen the climate change just over the last 15 years. The summers get hotter. The winters get colder. There are more storms and hurricanes now per season then there ever were 10 years ago. The signs that our environment is suffering major damage because of us are everywhere if you so chose to open your eyes and see it. Just a few years ago a piece of the polar ice caps the size of RHODE ISLAND broke off and melted. At the current rate of ice melt in 20 years time Major Cities all over the world will be Under Water. One of those cities will be New York. Feel free to look that up if you don't believe me.

I do believe one day America won't be a Super-Power any longer. The only question in my mind is will anyone else be around to say "hey, America isn't a Super-Power anymore."? When the fall of civilization comes, because of our vast technological advances in the last few hundred years, that America will be one of the last countries to collapse. Even if the Government collapses a lot of the people will be fine. Me and My wifes sides of the family both own enough guns to have a small stockpile. We own land we can farm if we have to for food, and my wifes family even has some livestock. We can live without electricity and much contact from the "civilized" world if need be. A lot of people can't say the same though and looting and rioting will be a big problem. At that point martial law will be in affect and if you want to survive and make sure your family lives through the collapse then you better shoot first and ask questions later. Food, Medicines, and clean water should be what you stockpile first and those are things people will be killing for.