Quality vs. Quantity

Is it worth upgrading damage?

from Sins Forums

plz excuse any spelling errors.

Ok looking at this from the standpoint of...  should I make more LRMs or get the 5% damage upgrade??

Being that credits are your number 1 most important aspect and resource, im only considering them in the calculations. Plz someone correct me if I error in my math. I am assuming in these calculation that each side has an equal amount of credits to spend.

LRM's: 275 credits

Damage Upgrade to 5%: 600 credits

Damage Upgrade from 5-10%: 700 credits

ok, First we look at  LRM's vs 5% increase. We want to keep the amount of credits spent equal.

Side 1 produces y amount of LRM's for 275 crd/each

Side 2 produces x amount of LRM's for 275 crd/each + 600 credits for upgrade.

so your equation would look like       y(275)= x(275)+600   {Equation 1}

As you can tell you have two equations and two unknowns.

So what else are you looking for? You need to find out how many of x and y ships you need to have an equal overall DPS.  what I mean is how many ships do you have to make for your increased dam equal your norm dam lrms.

So:  x(11.55)=y(11)      {Equation 2}          [11x5%=.55 +11= 11.55]  oh, LRM's do 11 average DPS according to google docs.

Solving for y in equation 2 and then substituting into equation 1 yeilds:

x=43.6,  y=45.78

So what this means is that given the same amount of credits, you would do more DPS until you get to roughly 44 LRM's by building more LRMS then upgrading the damage by 5%.

Now lets use the same formulas again with the 10% increase. adding 700 on top of the 600=1300, so:

y(275)=x(275)+1300      {Equation 3}

rewriting damage formula to show 10% increase:

X(12.1)=y(11)       {Equation 4}

Solving for y in equation 4 and then substituting into equation 3 yeilds:

x=47.27   y=52

THe problem with the last part is, that say you upgrade to 5% damage increase, it wouldnt be what I wrote in equation 4. And the credits spent wouldn't be what what is listed in equation 1. It more or less shows a direct jump between no damage increase to 10% increase. But that isnt actualy the case, since you have two things to research.

plz correct the following equations as i believe I may be incorrect on these next few, but you will get my drift.

Credit summary comparing 5% increase to 10% increase:

y(275)+600=x(275)+1300    {Equation 5}

damage summary:

y(11.5)=x(12.1)   {Equation 6}

Solving for y in equation 6 and then substituting into equation 5 yeilds:

x=54.19  y=59  LRM's

So if that given information is correct,  After increasing to 5% damage at 44 LRM's, it would not be benifical to upgrade to 10% until roughly 54 LRMs.

 

SO, what does this mean, that research is poop and needs to be rethought out. Based on equation's  3 and 4, I would rather have just 1 research directly to 10% for 1300 credits than two seperate researchs.

 

Plz give any and all feedback on the matter, THANKS.

16,282 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I haven't played the game yet, but 5% to 10% is 200% times the amount of damage, or twice...

In a rpg, I would pick that.

I would balance it though, 10% damage+ some LPMs, whatever they are.

Until you have alot of money, it's always a safe answer to go balanced.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
The most important upgrade for lrms would be the aoe damage. While the otehr damage upgrades are relative. If you want to increase attack power but you don't want to go into the next fleet supply, then upgrade the damage. Stuff like armor thou is a no brainer, because it will upgrade everything you own.
CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Ah, some kind of long range vessel.

Sounds like a few/1 extra and extra damage would help you immensly. You'd have a good short range and long range.

The thing one must remember in war is balance. A balanced army will defeat a unbalanced one any day of the week.

Balancing includes everything from attacks to how people feel.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Most of the weapon upgrades occur in too small increments at too high a price to be really worth it, in my opinion.

The Armor, Shields, and even Antimatter can be more worth it because they upgrade both the total and the regeneration rates and are effective on all ships, while the weapon upgrades are on differing ships depending on the upgrade and in small increments. Someone who dumps a lot of resources into upgrading the weaponry on their ships doesn't have that much an advantage over another player who just spits out more ships.

Really, the only reason I see to get these are either late game and you're researching anything to make your fleet stronger, or if you're in a tight spot and can't afford another fleet upgrade to just make more ships.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
That makes the most sense. The most balance is usually a good offense and a good defense.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
So the question is: at would point would 600 credits worth of LRMs increase total damage output by 5%?
1 lrm = 275 credits
600 credits = 2.18 lrms
(x+2.18)/x = 1.05
x = 43.6
once you have 43 lrms getting the upgrade would be more effective than spending that money on lrms. This is, of course, ignoring that you will need increased fleet capacity.


I haven't played the game yet, but 5% to 10% is 200% times the amount of damage, or twice...In a rpg, I would pick that.
End of quote
That's the wrong way of looking at it. Since upgrades are a linear progression (i.e. each rank has the same percentage increase, 5% in this case) the effectiveness of upgrades actually lessens as you get more. So the 1st rank will end up making you do 5% more damage than you were doing previously (100->105 damage = a 5% increase), while the 2nd rank would make you do ~4.76% more damage than if you stayed with the 1st rank (105->110 damage = a 4.76% increase.) Every percentage point of increased damage gets less valuable (i.e. the effective increase in killing speed decreases slightly) the higher it is. You would then use 4.76% instead of 5% to determine the appropriate break point.

So yea, the upgrades are pretty bad :). It is worth considering that it also affects the missiles on the Dunov and Marza capital ships.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
hmm... I didnt bother looking over it, so I hope I didnt switch around any x's or y's or anything, but the math is all correct.

oh YEAH, And next up on my To do list is that lovely Hull upgrade, yep buddy, your next!




Oh, I forgot to mention that this is a Static type problem, in reality, The 5% increase would loose DPS at a faster rate than the standard LRM, because one ship is worth more dps than the standard ship, so say at the 43.6 vs 45.78, they would have equal dps, but say since the dps is equal, they would Kill off 1 LRM at the time, so it would drop down to 42.6 vs. 44.78 (round to the nearest hole number... duh) so at that point in time, the standard LRM's would thus be doing more DPS than that of the 5% increase.


Oh, and if you are wondering why I didnt factor the shield migation or w/e, is because the ratio of damage would be the same.

But when I start my Hull analysis, I WILL have to factor shield migation into it., maybe, or no the ratio to damage would be the same. well, let me look into the hull stuff, havent gotten into that upgrade analysis yet.