makes you wonder...GalVivs been out for less than a week and already theres a download available with features and some bug fixes. Moos been out since FEB 26 (approx) and no patch yet (as far as I know.) Could be wrong since i havent checked the Moo board lately...very difficult to go back there.

I am only here because of MOO3. Nuf sed.

M

~SDC~

Lets stop this thread here.

MOO3 and Galciv are totally different games.
Trying to compare them will just into flame wars.
Lets keep this board focused on Galciv please.


~SDC~

The industry is bloated and a lot of the developers are too wrapped up in it to give the fans what they are looking for. Should we forgive QS for that heap they call a game? ... Only if they make it right. IMHO developers should not "score points" for what the publishers (and consumers) have paid them to do. The whole "go make your own game" crowd can take a flying leap.

I am a consumer. That makes me the most powerful person in the game industry. Brad & co. have delivered what no other game company has ever delivered to me... customer satisfaction. Don't get me wrong. I have a lot of games that are really good with good support to boot but, Stardock is always among us. They are playing the game they made and continuing to make it a better experience on a daily basis. So I vote for this game with my wallet and my time.

As far as MOO3 goes... who cares? If you do, go back to their forum and take your "My favorite game sucks but I love it anyway" angst with you. Unlike the "I love it" crowd over at the Infogrames forum, we don't have to prove that we love our game. Check the Metaverse. (recognize any names?...I sure do.)

~SDC~

GalCiv is playable and enjoyable out of the box. GalCiv already has a bonus pack adding extra features. GalCiv has also just been patched for the first time, adding features and altering existing features in response to community suggestions. GalCiv diplomacy makes sense.

MOO3 requires little intervention by the 'player' to actually play the game. MOO3 has questionable AI with some serious deficiencies that beg the question, "Did anyone really test this?". MOO3 needs a patch, but has yet to get one. MOO3 diplomacy is vague, confusing and sometimes appears completely random.

MOO3 has:
- Ship Design
- Planetary variations beyond simple "Class" structure.
- Starlanes
- Multiplayer

GalCiv has:
- Space resource points that can be mined with starbases.
- Space anomalies that can be explored with a Survey Ship to provide ship or race bonuses.
- Random events that can radically change the course of a game... or just boost the quality of a planet a little bit.
- Good/Neutral/Evil alignment that actually makes a difference to the game.
- An interesting, varied and challenging singleplayer mode.
- Starbases not tied to planets (We can travel through hyperspace, star lanes and can build weaponry that can destroy entire planets... but we can't build a starbase away from the orbit of a planet?)
- Diplomacy that makes sense.
- AI that is smart enough to beg for peace and plot your downfall if you grant it.

Here's something you can all do at home: List something that MOO3 has that GalCiv doesn't, then list something that GalCiv has but MOO3 doesn't. Could it be because they're different games?

GalCiv is more enjoyable and has a greater sense of you actually being the driving force behind your civilization. MOO3 is pretty and has some very original ideas about how a civ-like game can be designed.

Have you heard of the word 'hypocrisy' StarGalax? You can't come here and be abusive to people here because they're bashing something, then proceed to do the same thing. By your own admission, MOO3 needs patching at present. Perhaps **IF** it ever gets patched, it will be a different story. GalCiv has a bonus pack and a patch already. I like GalCiv players chances of seeing further patches better than I like MOO3's chances.

(Note: I own both games and have played both. MOO3 is no longer being played due to GalCiv's better gameplay. MOO2 was played more recently than MOO3. :notsure: )

~SDC~

Very Well Said "Mythor" and I might add that if GalCiv at some point develops a tactical combat mode, it'll eat MOO3 for lunch !!!

Oh come on StarGalax, there is plenty of Galciv bashing on the MOO3 forums, so don't act like it's localized here. A lot of the people here have played MOO3 and were very dissapointed, so a lot of this "bashing" is just people who are venting thier dissapointment.

As for everybody seeing how great MOO3 is when it gets patched, I still think that a lot of people are going to have issues with the fundamental design that a few patches will not fix for them. So it's kinda presumtious to say that everybody who doesn't like the game will see how great it is when the patch comes out.

On second thought, ignore my above post and just mark me down as supporting JavaScouts assessment of the situation.

Hello all!!!
I too am a homeless moo fan who was throughly disappointed with the new version of moo3.
that said, I do think this game is better even though it does have some minor design flaws but stardock seems willing to fix them.

I played MOO1 for a long time (I still have it on my computer). I really enjoyed that game. I played MOO2 and liked it. Not as much as the the first, but still. And then I waited for the third. Waited a long long time... I has SO disapointed.... OMG. What an horrible game. In MOO3, you don't control your colonies, you control the AI that TRIES to control'em. IT SUCKS BIG TIME...

I looked the review of Galactic Civilization, and I tried it. It look like MOO1, feels like it and plays like it. THE GAME OF THE YEAR.

BUY IT RIGHT F**KIN NOW


LOL LOL LOL LOL

MOO3 was a total waste of money. The game is terrible, and no amount of patching is going to fix the poor design decisions made in the game.

GalCiv is playable and fun, right out of the box. It eats MOO3's lunch.

This is not MOOIII bashing, it is just the facts. I wish someopne had given ME this information before I bought MOOIII--but I got most of money back on ebay anyway...

I also wiah i hadn't bought Moo3 on its reputation. I was incredibly disapointed with it, and have just managed to sell it off on Ebay. Looking now at the plethora of reviews that rate it under 50% i feel foolish for purchasing it without waiting for indications on how it played..or lack thereof.

On the other hand Gal-Civ is the best game i have played in a long time, and has the Potential to top Civ3/3 as my favourite TBG.

~SDC~

"Once MOO3 AI is patched (GalCiv needs some patch fixes, as well), the complexities of the game design will come in to focus for the people who do not see them now."--Quote by StarGalax.

The funny thing about this is that you see quotes similar to this on the MOO3 forum, except it's more like "MOO3 will be a great game once it's patched". Even the ones that actually like MOO3 are saying that. That should tell everyone that the game currently sucks and probably can't be fixed by a patch. If it "needs" a patch to be great or good then that should be a sign to stay away.

Sure, Galciv needs some patches, but not to make it good. It only needs patches to improve and get rid of some minor bugs. As with MOO3, those bugs really hinder the game and once you get rid of them, it will still have a design problem.



~SDC~

Don't feel foolish, Nirvana - all the early reviews were positive. Once the game was out for a week, new reviews were a bit more realistic. Second analysis reviews on many sites also toned down their assessments of MOO3.

I feel lucky as I was able to return MOO3 and apply the cash towards the pre-order of GalCiv. If I hear that MOO3 becomes enjoyable after patching, I will probably buy it again. But by then I fully expect it to be found in the bargain bin.

~SDC~

I was very excited about MOO3. But when I started my first game, it felt *odd*. I tried very hard to like it but give up.
I was also fortunate to be able to return MOO3 and put the money on GalCiv instead.
GalCiv feels a lot more natural and the gameplay is a lot more interesting IMO.

From now on let's compare MOO2 with alciv, since the mayority here thinks this is a better game then MOO3 anyway

To #31

I hope GalCiv never develops a Tactical Combat mode or Ship Design. Or if it does, I hope there is an option to turn them off. I've always found those two components to be a bit boring. When playing MOO2, I always had them turned off.

~SDC~

Well I have agreed with a lot of the points presented here, MOO3 and GalCiv are two DIFFERENT games to say the least. I own both and after a few clumsy days spent with MOO3, I knew there would have to be something out there that would be better....Then came GalCiv and now I can truly say that I feel that I have gotten my money's worth and more.... I don't feel ripped off! and my hat off to the patch and bonus pak!!!
This is a game that I will be leaving on the hd for a long time to come. Each game gets better and better and this is something I cannot say about MOO3 which has not been even touched since the release of GalCiv and is soon to be removed. Ps Ship design could be kinda cool, if it is done right.

wish i would have taken Moo3 back but I got suckered into the "just give it time...say 2 weeks worth of playing" syndrome and lost my opportunity to return it. I understand now that EBX changed their policy so you cant return ANYTHING if has been opend anymore, unless defective.
Who STILL has a return policy nowadays???

The ONLY reason Stardock got my $40 is the complete and utter failure of MoO3. If I had enjoyed MoO3, Brad would not have my money... it's that simple.

And so far, my enjoyment of GalCiv after 6-8 hours of play is about twenty times my level of enjoyment after 45 hours of MoO3.

Playing GalCiv just makes me more and more disgusted at how awful MoO3 really is, and what a burned-out shell of a company QS is. I'm finding issues with GalCiv, but my first major complaint (game-killing early random events) has ALREADY been fixed. GalCiv gives me the "one more turn" syndrome in spades... and I think about all the time I wasted mashing the turn button in that "other" game and I get pretty pissed. (angry, for all our British friends)

That said, let's localize our MoO3 angst to this thread... it doesn't profit anybody to spit venom at another company all over the place. I think it's fair to take out some frustration; let's just not overdo it.

For me, the biggest difference is MOO3 lacked a sense of urgency. Turn after turn would go by with no real sense that anything was on the line.

In GalCiv, maximizing each turn (at least earlier on) is so important that I sometimes feel loathe to hit the turn button in case I forgot something!

Sorry, but with MOO3, *all* I wanted to do was hit the turn button...

Well, now that we all agree about Galciv and MOO3, let's return to the more mature theme and deep thoughts that this thread actually started with.

See, I also forgot to eat last weekend, and I actually only remembered at four in the morning, when my cats opened the door to the computer room and demanded to be fed

I am a consumer. I live in a capitalist society (the best kind going right now). I vote with my dollars on those products and services I deem of value to me. I purchased both MOOIII and GalCiv. If I knew then what I know now I would have refrained from purchasing MOOIII and I would have saved that money to buy GalCiv.

FACT: MOOIII was not ready for release. It is bug ridden with a terrible AI and the worst documentation I have seen.
FACT: MOOIII was not written by the same team that brought us MOOI and MOOII.
FACT: MOOIII by its name is the successor of one of the greatest 4X franchises in PC Gaming.
FACT: Many of us purchased this on name value alone. I admit, thats what I did, and I learned my lesson.
FACT: GalCiv is written and produced by the same team that created the original.
FACT: GalCiv is going to be supported for at least one year following it's release.
FACT: MOOIII has made no such gaurantee.
FACT: MOOIII has multiplayer
FACT: GalCiv does not.
FACT: I have only played in three multi-player games (This is actively looking and trying to arrange to play a game), the longest of which lasted 72 turns over two sessions, at which point we all gave up due to schedule problems.
FACT: I have played 2 complete games of GalCiv and enjoyed them. I had "Fun".
FACT: I have not played a complete game of MOOIII, I have played one game up to 200+ turns and then I became board and quit as I was simply not challenged by the AI.
FACT: MOOIII has a large following of passionate gamers that hat seeing what has happened to their favorite franchise and many have created their own mods. They are true gamers and should be saluted. I have played these mods and must admit that it does improve the game. I give them all the credit, and none to Quicksilver. They did a sloppy job.
FACT: I AM BASHING MOOIII, it is my right as consumer. I paid for the software so therefore I have the right to critique it.
FACT: I am commending GalCiv. This is also my right as a consumer, I paid for the software therefore I have the right to give Stardock a pat on the back. Well done!
FACT: If you don't like my oppinion thats your perogitive. You can't make me like MOOIII, you can't make me dislike GalCiv. 'nuff said.


In summation. It is my recommendation that if you are trying to decide whether to buy GalCiv or MOOIII you should purchase GalCiv. That is my oppinion, as a consumer, you may do whatever you wish, it is your choice.

I believe MOO3 as far as a solid 4x game will be much more enjoyable in say, 6 months. If the devs don't drop the ball that is, and do not release the list of fixes they are documenting. Space Empires IV is now a wonderful game. Lots of micromanagement, but very enjoyable. Yet it was not nearly as nice when it was released. It required patches (and he was really great about patching the game) and especially mods (the AI is rather pathetic unless you utilize a decent AI mod) before its potential was realized. It still has issues (you typically *must* win by conquest), but it is still enjoyable. I think MOO could end up being enjoyable for fans of the genre. I may even repurchase it down the road. But out of the box? A nightmare. There must have been issues with development. I can't imagine with the time they had that they accomplished only what they did.

GalCiv though I think (IMO) will always be more *fun* than MOO3 will. At least to a player like myself, who enjoys a strategy game with some flavor and attitude. MOO3 is rather bland.. very sterile, stern, based solidly in #'s and theories, it lacks spirit. If you were truly someone who simply loved the calculations, #'s and formulas behind the game engine, you might love MOO3. But if you are not that obsessed with these things, but rather wanted a fun challange.. ala a very intricate board game, GalCiv is just more enjoyable. I think QS tried to hard to please the purists.. they ended up making a game that only the most dedicated 4x's could enjoy. Nice thought.. bad marketing idea.

With the ongoing support for GalCiv.. the ability to mod, add ships, etc.. this game has great replayability. Maybe I won't rush to get MOO3 after all... LOL


fleabitfox

“ship customization” is not a big deal in a truly strategic game and that is what Galciv is! While Building custom ships and fighting them IS fun does it really fit in a truly strategic game or like MooIII keeps saying a Macro game ?? I don’t think so . .if every thing else is abstracted why not combat? So I do not miss it at all (and anyone that used to play very strategic and in-depth board games should not either.)
Also, Being able by trade, diplomacy and influence keep two empires fighting and make a PROFET from it is great . . you can also do some real horse trading and you can really even win with out a shot by sheer dominance and maneuvering or by conquest if necessary.
So, in having both games I have to give it to Galciv.
Galciv is a real strategic game. MooIII is a barely patched up skeleton of ripped out features and good intentions, and people think it is complex and deep when it is just very confused and broken.
Also Galciv has constant dedicated support and IS a good game out of the box. MooIII has yet to be seen support, possibly continuing money problems, mad customers and may BE a fair game IF a patch comes out.