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Is skinning a community or a market?

Is skinning a community or a market?

Frogblog: February 2008

https://forums.wincustomize.com/?forumid=19&aid=176998
frogboy-iconWhen skinning first got started, there was a kind of unspoken understanding between the people who made software and the people who used the software. There would be a symbiotic relationship between 3 groups.  The first group, the developers, would create software to customize the look and feel of your applications and desktop. The second group, the skinners, would create the content for these programs. And the third group, the users, would work with the first two groups to help test and ensure the software worked fine by giving detailed reports on betas and even releases to help perfect the program in general.  In return, the software was far far cheaper than software in other markets. Thus was borne the "skinning community".

Even into 2008, where a typical new game is $50 to $70 and the typical utility software is $50 to $70, the most popular desktop enhancement software programs remain $20 or less.  In fact, Object Desktop, an entire collection of desktop enhancements, is only $50. To put it in collection, WinRar, which is most commonly (let's be honest here) used to compress pirated software, is about $40 all by itself.

As skinning has become more mainstream, the relationship between the three parties has evolved.  Increasingly, the content creation is shouldered by fewer and fewer people. We created the Master Skinning program as an effort (a successful one) to encourage skinners with high degrees of talent to continue sharing their creations.  The net result is that content is starting to cost money because so few new users are creating it (even for relatively simple things).  Similarly, users are much less inclined to participate in open beta programs.  Look at the CursorFX release. There's multiple posts complaining in the vaguest terms that it doesn't work on their systems.  It works here just fine. Nearly everyone here is running CursorFX on XP or Vista without incident. We had an open beta but we received very few reports on it. 

The reality is, while the skinning "community" still exists, it is now a small sub-section of the "skinning market" which is made up of traditional consumers who simply expect (with good reason) to pay money in exchange for a program and content that just works.  There's nothing wrong with that. That's how every other market works. But those markets don't support products that are $10 to $20.  Those products are $50 to $70.   The only reason WindowBlinds isn't already a $40 program is because of the skinners and that it still gets significant help from the community in testing new beta versions (though drastically less than in the old days when, ironically, it had far fewer users).

Skinning is continuing to evolve. It's evolving increasingly into a more traditional consumer-oriented market.  Stardock, I suspect, will have to adapt with some system that allows users who are contributing time and effort to the community to get credits which lets them buy the software at a less expensive price while traditional consumers pay the un-subsidized rate for the products. 

I've written an article that goes into more detail.  Click the link below to check it out. 

78,900 views 249 replies
Reply #226 Top
If people want to make money doing graphic work then go to school and train like the rest of the world has done for ages.
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That's kind of a narrow minded comment. Some of the most talented people I know never had a day of formal education in their field.

If you really think that sitting at home in front of your computer is going to generate any lucrative results you hit the bong a few too many times.
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The same could be said for finding a job or many other things. If you spend all day looking at job boards but, don't do anything else then you'll never find a job. I've encountered a number of people making pretty good incomes from sitting at home in front of the computer.
It comes down to what you're doing on the computer be it at home or in an office environment.
Reply #227 Top
Well, I'm not getting rich sitting here, but I'm paying my share of the bills, doesn't mean that with enough initiative I can't in the future better my position through hard work and dedication.. Where there's a will there's always a way.. School, home.. doesn't matter to me.
Reply #228 Top
That's kind of a narrow minded comment. Some of the most talented people I know never had a day of formal education in their field.
End of quote


True. I know many succesful people that are uneducated as well but I know many many more that were professionally trained. Self teaching is a valid way to learn but not for most.

I was talking big bucks though. Like Pixar / Disney. With education and training you could be making millions for doing graphic work. I sort of see skinning as entry level graphic work. If I can do it , anyone can. I am not saying it doesn't require talent but you'll learn more, faster, by going to school to gain knowledge rather than starting from scratch with a pirated copy of Photoshop. :)



Reply #229 Top
I was talking big bucks though. Like Pixar / Disney. With education and training you could be making millions for doing graphic work.
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That's certainly true if you own the studio or are in the upper end of the management team and have stock options. As for the basic set of folks that actually do the graphics work, I think you will find it is very competitive field with a lot of very talented people and the project pay or salaries are not that great as there are so many trying to break in and will do work for very little compensation. Are there exceptions and super stars?. Sure, but in total it is a tough field.
Reply #230 Top
When one considers the immense commercial possibilities of desktop customization\advertising and small number of pro quality skinners... seems the odds of making a healthy living skinning would be on our side.

Maybe I'm just a hippy dreamer  :p 
Reply #231 Top

I sort of see skinning as entry level graphic work.
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That's one heck of a put-down for a lot of people here.

Rest assured there will be 'million dollar earners' in graphics who would NOT HAVE A CLUE how to skin.

And...

There are successful graphic artists who started out by honing their skills with skinning, and the converse also applies....;)

 

Reply #232 Top
I sort of see skinning as entry level graphic work.

That's one heck of a put-down for a lot of people here.
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The flipside to that is there are a lot of people that would be proud to call themseleves amateur graphic artists.  ;) 

Reply #233 Top
Night Train, thanks for clarifying that.

Yeah, formal education will get people there quicker but, only when combined with practical experience. That's why I think co-op type work experience is such an integral part of any education.

The flipside to that is there are a lot of people that would be proud to call themseleves amateur graphic artists.
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There's also a third group that would just consider themselves artists. ;)
Reply #234 Top

A good skinner can make quite a bit of money. I would know. :)

And I'm not talking entry level type money either.

Reply #235 Top
I was talking big bucks though. Like Pixar / Disney. With education and training you could be making millions for doing graphic work.
End of quote


Ya know, my girlfriend's little brother went to Full Sail in Florida. He got his degree in Graphic Design. He's now in the Navy after graduating with a 3.8 GPA. Couldn't get a job in graphic arts. So he joined the Navy to pay off his college loans. Lotta good school did him. Got more talent as an artist than just about anyone I've ever met...

Just goes to show you, school isn't EVERYTHING. Sure, he's got a degree in graphics and can use a PC like a pro...... but he's still in the Navy trying to pay off those loans because he couldn't get that big job.
Reply #236 Top
I'm fairly sure that almost no one is making "millions" doing graphics work. I say "almost" because there are the rare Picassos and Hockneys who reach that level, but most of the studio artists only make a decent living off it.

As to the various groups who post or add content (and yes, I know I haven't added anything yet, but I just finished my first dock and about 40 icons to go on it), let's not forget that there is a fourth group -- those of us who purchased the software unaware that there was any content at this site or anywhere else, and who got the software for the sole purpose of creating our own docks and icons. Finding all the freebies was just icing on the cake.

I'm an attorney. Graphics for me are just what I'm passionate about when I'm not in front of the computer working on corporate transactions. I'm not looking for anyone to discover me as a graphic artist here, I'm just hoping that whatever I post won't be torn to shreds by the critics.

This site is no different than any of the other graphics sites around the net. All the companies that produce software (some expensive ... some not so much) that allows people to create computer graphics provide some free, some discounted, and some full price content. Consumers (like me) can chose to either make our own from scratch or, use some of the free or purchased content, or go with all third party content. It is nothing new or unusual.

I pay $7.00 a month to one site just to be a member and get discounts on my downloads. Another site lets members sell items, or choose to post them for free. If they broker them on the site, then the site gets a cut of the profits.

So, I'm finding it a little funny to hear people complain about not getting a ton of free content with their $50.00 program (even while there is a ton of free content from what I can see), when I'm used to paying several hundred dollars for a program and getting zero free content .... it's either make your own or buy it for around $20.00 for a single model or set of textures.

So far, I'm a happy camper after something like a month of playing with the software. The few problems I had at the beginning (with Windowblinds) I was able to solve with the help of a very nice guy at Stardock, and I feel like I purchased a really great $50.00 tool that lets me have fun with graphics in a whole new arena. And then there were all these great feebies on top of it. Really, that was unexpected ... I thought Wincustomize would be pay only.

OK .... off my soapbox now.
Reply #237 Top
PS: Please don't anyone rip me a new one for saying Picasso and Hockney worked in "graphics." I realize there is a big difference between fine art and graphics work. That was really my point. So, actually, no one is making millions in good ol' graphics.
Reply #238 Top
Fine art knows no Boundaries of medium used, whether it be oil,lead,latex,acrylic,or pixels. The beauty/value is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

Theres quite a few images here and all over the net as well, that I personally would love to have hanging on my walls.
Reply #239 Top
Good post Ricky.  :)
Reply #240 Top
Oh, I agree, HG. There are some really beautiful images done on the computer. I hope that someday there will be galleries with huge screens so that people can really appreciate them. But, I doubt that computer graphics will ever rise to the level of fine art in an economic sense only because the primary value of fine art arises from its rarity.

The medium of computer graphics lends itself too easily to reproduction ... and perfect reproduction I might add. There is only one original painting of the Mona Lisa, and that's what makes it worth the big bucks. If someone did an original computer graphics work of equal artistic quality ... well, that's still only so many bits of information. Anyone who effectively duplicates the bits has the original (as far as anyone can tell from an artistic viewpoint).

As far as beauty and artistry ... oh yeah, there's this one guy (working name Rochr) who has posted images that would take your breath away. What's unfair is that he should be making megabucks for his work, but I can promise you that the studios do not pay him on that scale. He can work for months on a single image -- because he makes all of his own models and textures -- and it shows. Me?? I make most of my own textures, but my modelling skills are not a tenth of his -- and it shows.

And, thank you Zubaz.

Reply #241 Top
What's unfair is that he should be making megabucks for his work, but I can promise you that the studios do not pay him on that scale.
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As with all fine art. It typically is not truly recognized by the general populace for it's merits/value until long after the the authors demise. (the artist unfortunately never saw the fame and fortune the future held for them).

One would think that with the digital age upon us, those who do the suffering and hard work would actually reap the long term benefits. While the $$ may not be quite as forth coming as one would hope, the seeds of respect/honor have already been sewn :)


Good posts, both insightful and thought invoking :)
Reply #242 Top
Pict: I think what is going to have to happen is to provide a special place where power users can work directly with us in exchange for elevated status in getting software and such.
Reply #243 Top
Pict: I think what is going to have to happen is to provide a special place where power users can work directly with us in exchange for elevated status in getting software and such.
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I think a private forums limited to certain people would be a great start with something like that.  :)

Reply #244 Top
I think a private forums limited to certain people would be a great start with something like that.
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And a secret handshakes and uniforms.   :CONGRAT:

Rewarding Wincustomize and Stardock interaction is a good idea.  Setting read-only or read/write or no access based on criteria to certain resources might encourage all sorts of positive behavior.  The trick would be to balance that so that there aren't implied or implicit "us" and 'them".
Reply #245 Top

The medium of computer graphics lends itself too easily to reproduction ... and perfect reproduction I might add. There is only one original painting of the Mona Lisa, and that's what makes it worth the big bucks. If someone did an original computer graphics work of equal artistic quality
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I've seen original PSD files of Nuvem's walls ....they're not what is readily uploaded/downloaded as jpgs or bmps, not when they were around 250 meg., with a print-quality size around 3 metres long...;)

Reply #246 Top

Rewarding Wincustomize and Stardock interaction is a good idea. Setting read-only or read/write or no access based on criteria to certain resources might encourage all sorts of positive behavior. The trick would be to balance that so that there aren't implied or implicit "us" and 'them".
End of quote

Yes, the 'trick' is the important bit, too ...;)

Reply #247 Top
In my experience beta-testers normally do it for the interest/satisfaction, testing that is. It's normal to receive some perk that's directly related to the software that's being tested - but even that is rarely stated as an expectation of reward.

Also in my experience, beta-testing of good or interesting software is rarely under subscribed. Which is why I'm unsure as to why there's a need in a community like this to make exceptional efforts.



Reply #248 Top
What's unfair is that he should be making megabucks for his work, but I can promise you that the studios do not pay him on that scale.As with all fine art. It typically is not truly recognized by the general populace for it's merits/value until long after the the authors demise. (the artist unfortunately never saw the fame and fortune the future held for them).One would think that with the digital age upon us, those who do the suffering and hard work would actually reap the long term benefits. While the $$ may not be quite as forth coming as one would hope, the seeds of respect/honor have already been sewn Good posts, both insightful and thought invoking
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Well, yes and no. It's not always that the artist isn't recognized until after their death. In the past, artists such as DaVinci or Michaelangelo were certainly recognized and respected during their lifetimes, but well into the 1800s artists (even the best artists) worked on a patronage system. So, market pressures didn't really affect their work.

However, as the patronage system died (along about the time of the Industrial Revolution) there began to be a different economic structure supporting the arts. The critical value of the work, artistic merit, public interest, along with the real or perceived rarity of the artist's work all began to be important.

That's about the time that the captains of industry and the general public both began to discover fine art (other than sacred art). As that began to happen, a real market for fine art emerged. And, as in all markets, if the amount of any commodity is limited, the value goes up. So, whenever an artist is deceased, that puts a very real cap on the number of his works.

The critical value will change over time as tastes change. Same with public interest. I submit that true artistic merit remains unchanged. And an artist's work becomes more and more rare as time passes ... individual works of art are damaged or destroyed or sometimes lost. But, the end result is that, assuming critical value and rarity are high, the price of a work will increase.

And, the big problem with the digital medium is it takes a lot longer for something to become rare, especially if it is subject to easy duplication. True even after the artist has passed away. It's a given, of course, that the artist won't produce any more originals after his or her demise, but the individual works will not themselves become rare.

It's just a side effect of the digital age. However, the upside is that the general public has more and more access to some really astounding artwork. I would love to see a world where artists and musicians (and I'm not talking about pop-stars) and teachers would be compensated for the value of what they contribute to society.

Ah, if only I ran the world.  :LOL: 
Reply #249 Top
I've seen original PSD files of Nuvem's walls ....
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Same here, opened a .psd by Treetog or MikeB of a WindowBlinds skin and I was like 'Wow, I will never get there in my life.'.