All Forms of Faith are an Abomination before God

You know, I completely agree. From what I've seen, that appears to be the most common case. Always preaching, never practicing...just bitch, moan, and complain to get that sense of self satisfaction to raise yourself above everyone else who thinks differently, lives in a way outside of their own construction of what is righteous and "right" in this world. They live as though they are sinless, self proclaimed prophets and preachers and thus do injustice to the beliefs they so vehemently push onto the world...or rather the beliefs that they have concocted, which are no more than a sheer bastardization of the true core of the religion.

Which is why I loosely associate myself with religion...you get sucked too far in and you become blind, hateful, and a real pain in the ass to other people who just want to live their lives.

~Zoo

You are generalizing in the worst way.  Not all religious people are hypocrites, judgemental, or condemning.  You can have your opinion and I can disagree. 

Your righteousness is nothing more than what you consider to be right, nothing more than what you consider God to have spoken to us all.

I can't speak for every self-styled Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Pagan, or whatever out there, but I know for myself I try to live my religion. I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be. My wife will be happy to detail my shortcomings for you any time. But as far as I know, I am doing my best to live a good, Christ-centered life. Love one another, don't lie or steal, show respect to your mama and your God.

Love one another, don't lie or steal, show respect to your mama and your God.

Or what will happen? (Not that I condone any of those things from a personal point of view)

That's the real drive behind many religions and many of their adherents - fear of reprisal. Yeah, the adherents will claim all manner of love-based motivations about their gods, but notice how quick they are to talk about what happens to those who don't agree. If you don't behave a certain way, there will be severe repercussions. Hey God. If I don't measure up to you (which granted the hypothesis of a deity, I certainly could not) then how about show me, in an objective fashion, what exactly it is I missed. I'm reasonable.

Is that not what we as parents do? Do we say "Look little Jimmy, if you don't clean your room and recognize me as your one true biological father, I'm afraid I'm going to have to put you through a meat grinder a little at a time." No, we say kids are kids. We may give them a 15 minute time out. We might do all manner of "repercussive" things to teach little Jimmy that cleaning one's room is what we demand as bottom line acceptable behavior. If everything fails, and little Jimmy just turns out to be a real miscreant that won't behave, what do we say? We say, "Where did *I* go wrong?" Seen any gods lately that express that kind of ownership over their supposed creation? Nope...not one. There isn't a personally responsible god known to man.

So Jimmy. I've given you the facts about cleaning your room, now. Hopefully you'll understand that if you don't clean it, I'll have to make you suffer for all eternity. Nothing personal. Eternal suffering is a perfectly fair punishment for a child not understanding the importance of a clean room.

Holy crap, that's a good point. The Christian God ends up killing everyone after they screw up...I hope people don't do that to their kids.

(Using your example)

Well, Jimmy the time has come to punish you for your misdeeds. This room has been filthy for months now and we're taking a trip to the pool so I can drown you and start over. On top of the horrible death by drowning you will receive, you also get to burn in hell for all eternity. Get in the car, Jimmy.

~Zoo

You know, except the Christian God who became a man in order to save us.

This, from someone who thinks her own bigotry is an accurate description of the universe. Take your pathetic saviour out of your pocket and wave it at me. Perhaps I'll disappear in a puff of brimstone. Or perhaps not. Your wretched faith is founded on a collection of stories that date back thousands of years, that were created in relation to a world that's now as dead and gone as is the world of the cretaceous and mesozoic eras. And yet, on the basis of ignorance, prejudice, and the crassest form of wishful gullibility, you presume to tell the universe how it's to be ordered.

So I generalize from my experience of the bigotry of the religious. Sue me. You, on the other hand, turn your prejudice into a universal philosophy that entails the damnation of anyone not willing to think as you.

As I said - your faith is sinful in and of itself because it's nothing but idolatry.

You know, except the Christian God who became a man in order to save us.

That isn't ownership. What's that? You bought a car and a drunk driver ran you off the road and you smashed your car to bits? Ok, well I'll buy a car and smash mine to bits, too. Just to make things all better.

Ah yes. Poor, suffering Jesus, condescending to abandon his divinity and get down in the dirt with the worms and the vermin.

Why is it that Christianity, from its beginnings as a formalized theology in the writings of that pious hypocrite, sexual predator and pervert (otherwise known as St. Augustine of Hippo - who taught that sex alone makes us worthy of damnation and that women are 'the Devil's gateway') has emphasised nothing but the corruption and foulness of human nature?

What is it about you, Jythier, that makes you so foul in your own sight that you can't bear to look at yourself except through the distorting prism of your 'Jesus'? Most of the sexual paranoias and neuroses that afflict the average American are traceable to the simple fact that most Americans think they are Christians - and Christianity teaches them to loathe their physicality in all its forms.

Nope, sorry I'm one of those "weird" Christians who doesn't believe in hell. I go to the Unity Church. I believe other religous traditions have a path to the truth too. I certainly am not one of the "believe what I believe or you're going to burn in hell" types. That's the thing about Christians or religous, we come in many stripes and colors. As a matter of fact, many Christians may believe that I am not a "true" Christian. So be it. I believe what I believe and am fine with that.

After you know...killing the entire world save for one boat on a 40 day tour.

~Zoo

Agreed Emp, Totally agreed.

There are still good people in all of these faiths .... unfortunately they are very few .... very very few.

more unfortunate, i dont think I am one of those few. I am trying .... so far i am not sure i am succeeding. But i know one thing: your statement above is true.

I believe what I believe and am fine with that.

Then why are you here? I tell you to your face that I consider your liberal prevaricating bullshit as something contemptible, idolatrous and blasphemous, and you have the witless gall to continue in your pathetic fence-sitting and expect to be praised for your broad-mindedness?

If your god had any interest in you at all It would spit in your face before frying you in the hell of your own choice.

I don't know which characteristic of you blaspheming, idolatrous devil-worshippers disgusts me more. Your self-congratulation or your arrogance.

To: ThinkAloud

I'm having one of my angry moments. Don't take it personally. If I were to be forced to choose between Judaisim and Islam I honestly don't know where my choice would fall. Both are more inherently honest than the canting hypocrisy and whining cowardice that goes by the name of Christianity.

Hey EOIC,

A vast majority of 'Christians' are suffering with a form of identity theft. Some how this god of Israel rejected the whole old Testament and the people he called out to be a priestly nation for a bunch of lawless Gentiles? Some how this isn't replacement theology?

One other thing I have come to learn is the main difference from what I see in the Scriptures vs what I see in the 'Church.' In the Old Testament and in the New G-D calls the people out and the Spirit works on their heart. It is a bilateral relationship but the diety of G-D remains in HIS rightful place. Countless times I see G-D say, through you I will do great things (or variations) BUT as long as you keep my Torah.

The scenario changes in the 'Christian Church' (at least in increasinly numbers). Some how if I say enough Hail Marys, repetitive this or that, or pray hard enough, I get what I wanted. This is a form of god manipulation on top of the pre-described identity hijacking. Ultimately speaking this is telling god what to do which by default elevates you above? How then can this be an omnipotent god that is now manipulated by your pleadings?

So many do realize this and out of their morbid ignorance they do exactly what you said EOIC.

By hyjacking this identity they now somehow feel that they are elevated. The Greek influence has drastically influenced our 'Western' culture of arrogance and civil superiority complexes. This attitude is what they accuse the Pharisees (or more commonly used 'The Jews') of execution of the Messiah they so cherish.

This is my perspective.

To: Adventure-Dude

You are evidently a thinking person. A person who has given thought to your religious/spiritual perspective on the world. You and I may disagree (not that that matters because I'm right and you're wrong - excuse me, I was channeling KFC there) but it's evident from your contributions that you exercise thought in relation to your ritual observance.

In all matters of religious/spiritual observance I look for a sense of adulthood in the observant person with whom I'm engaged in conversation. Adulthood, in these matters, is defined for me by a sense that while I (the observant person) have faith, I understand that my faith is incomplete. It's incomplete because it's human. Faith is the response of the human spirit to the conundrum that is the presence of God. God is. Man is. Somehow, the one must deal with the other.

I no longer have any interest in promoting my conception of the divine in the presence of others in such a way that they, eventually, agree with me. For all I know, I'm as deluded as any Christian. I have, however, an interest in debating with the god-bothering majority the finer points of their particular delusions. I believe it to be incumbent on those who have progressed beyond the simple dichotomies of faith without thought that they contest with those who are convinced that they are righteous. I know that there is no one righteous before God. How could there be? God is more. And what is less is, by definition, neither righteous nor holy.

This is the root of my on-going fascination with Jesus, the latest incarnation of the Solar Myth. I ask you a question as one human being to another. Who is there that, knowing themselves to be in immediate peril of horrible death, wouldn't want someone to selflessly rescue them simply because they are loved? To rescue them at the cost of their own life? Simply because they are loved. There is not a soul alive that is immune to the attraction of that kind of imagery, that kind of appeal.

We all want to be loved. And we all want to be loved absolutely and for ourselves alone.

And as the Gospels testify, Jesus is Love. The power of the Christian myth is in its perfect combination of the Terrifying Judge and the Sacrificial Lover. The one will kill your ass simply because you deserve nothing else. The other will save your ass because he loves you. And that in essence is the whole of Christianity.

It would be wonderful, if it wasn't bullshit.

The God I know thinks genocide is funny. It invented Bubonic Plague, and Cholera. It invented us, the Great Exterminator, and set us to hate one another. It's as much at home in cellars where people are tortured to death as It is in Cathedrals. Maybe more so. And It doesn't give a shit whether I, or you, or anyone else, lives or dies. It regards us as we regard insects, or viruses, or the atoms that compose the air we breathe. With complete and utter indifference. If it possesses any kind of morality at all that morality is nothing but an exaggerated sense of irony.

And at the same time and in the same instant the God I know is Holy, Righteous and Just.

These two completely opposed points of view live together in me because I have an adult understanding of the difficulties involved in understanding God. God is not what I am. Nor is God what I can conceive. The only way to speak the truth concerning God is to be silent. Everything else is idolatry and blasphemy. And there are moments, and days, in which I grow weary of idolatry and blasphemy - and simple, bloody-minded, ignorance.

But I take comfort in this. God is. And God will repay.

And none will be exempt.

But being able to agree to disagree seems to show maturity (spiritual and emotional). I know there are areas that we disagree on but I respect your perspective because you didn't read about it and consider it your own. You've obviously thought about it and chewed on it for a good length of time.

I for one do not feel that I have 'arrived' and have more knowledge than anyone else nor righteous than any other. I have learned enough to know that I know SO VERY LITTLE! The one thing that seems to irk me the most is the revelation of implications in Scriptures. This, I find to be the most dangerous road to travel down. Especially when you point it out that it doesn't say that they say, but it implies it and references a non-relevant set of scriptures. I would be lying to everyone who reads this if I were to say I was innocent from doing the same. We all do it. And it irks me!



While I will disagree with you here. I see this as more of the curses that were mentioned in scriptures. So many refuse to acknowledge that curses do exist (especially generational) but yet what is the first thing you fill out at a doctor's visit? They ask you if anyone in your family tree have xyz disease. Why? Because they see a pattern of them being passed from generation to generation. The era of Sterilization here in the US was based upon this same principle!



Very true!

To: Adventure-Dude

The purpose of my comment was not to commend you. You are, in your own way, as complete and utter a blasphemer, idolator, devil-worshipper, and rampant, screaming hypocite as is KFC. You differ from her only in this. You actively think. If I 'support', 'defend', 'agree with', anything you have to say it's only in the sense that I support the deliberate effort to think. And to that degree and in that way alone, I suppose I do indeed commend you. Thinking persons, no matter the utter idiocy of their thought, are in short supply.

So desperate are our times that the important question is not 'how do you think?' but 'can you think at all?'

I am not in agreement with you. The fiction you believe in as 'G_d' is as much a fraud, a deceit, a thing derivative of your own desire, as is anything produced by the incomparable arrogance, stupidity, complicity and deceit, of the likes of KFC. You are both blasphemers, and you are both idolators.

It just so happens that I find your idolatry and blasphemy less intellectually and aesthetically displeasing than hers.

That doesn't alter the fact that the way you are in the world, your most absolute and private being, is an insult in the face of God that will not go unpunished. Exactly the same can be said of me. But I don't give a shit.

Why? Because I'm a Magickian, not an observant convert to a religion that is as much a nonsense as is every other.

I am not what you think I am. Your god is even less what you imagine it to be.

And, unlike me, your god bears grudges, and will repay.

I ask you this as one man to another and one believer to another. What have you done for your god that It should spare you its righteous judgment?