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Pirates: The Worst (or Best) Part of the Game?

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Pirates: The Worst (or Best) Part of the Game?

Please share your thoughts so we can adapt as neccessary.

from Sins Forums
Is there really no way to turn off the Pirates? Why are Pirates even in the game? What purpose do they serve besides increased difficulty? I understand all the intricacies with bounties and using Pirates to your advantage, but their prevalence is absurd. How do Pirates have enormous fleets in sectors I'm just starting to exploit? Doesn't it hurt the immersion to have this universe set up as it is and then there are just enormous random fleets of advanced warships out there under a space age Blackbeard?

If there isn't a way to turn them off (strange that such an option would be absent in a game being touted by the developer of Galactic Civilizations, which lets you turn off almost any annoying feature), are there any pre-set maps where they aren't as prevalent or, hopefully, are just not a part of the game?
214,015 views 218 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top
Pirate raids are where over confident and over extended players go to die.
Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top
:LOL:

its simply a matter of prioritization: either cover your ass with defenses when facing the direction of pirates, or make damn sure you outbid to get them to attack someone else.

hint: they go towards the nearest planet of yours they can find, on occasion they will detour if they are having issue there.
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Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top

As handled in the default game, they add nothing and detract much.
End of quote

I gave 11 ways in which they add to the game in post 29. I can add more if needed.

I’m sure the game designers had a point to using the pirates but it’s lost on me.
End of quote

I gave our reasons in post 29.

Moreover, in the beginning of the game, there’s great attention paid to setting the stage in a dramatic way, to introduce the 3 factions yet, there’s no mention of the “pirates?” What’s their role in all of this?
End of quote

The pirates are important part of the TEC's history and this is described in the faction section of the manual.

For those interested here are the maps without pirates:

Balance Of Power
Derelict
Gateway
Voruk's Labyrinth

More coming.

 

Reply #54 from Stardock Forums Top
I tried to get revenge via the pirates after I had lost a game (and continued playing) by selling all of my resources and supposedly paying the pirates to attack all of my victorious enemies (over 10k bribes each) but they never did anything. Bunch of slackers when not attacking me.
Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top

Regardless, we recognize it isn't for everyone so here is what we are going to do. We'll build some new maps without pirates and include them as soon as possible. Anything more drastic (such as turning them off completely) would take a fair bit more work and couldn't be done quickly. Besides, we'd also like to take some time to evaluate possible side effects of their removal that we haven't considered yet.


Thanks for bringing up your concerns,


-Blair


End of quote


Blair, honestly, there are really two things that need to be considered for the Pirate integration with the game to work out well in a ballanced way. With two somewhat-interesting changes, people would be more sanguine about the presence of pirates even without new non-piraty maps (though there is a massive demand for that as well, so don't think I'm suggesting going away from that).

1) Perhaps the most important one, the speed of the game should scale the time between pirate attacks. On a Slow game (which I prefer), the resource flow is too slow to make a pirate attack every 12min reasonable to deal with. Scale the basic numbers along with the rest of the delays and the ballance'll be retained with only minor coding requirements.

2) On the random maps, add an option for No Pirates. Then the node/planet generator for the maps just won't use PiratePlanet as a possible entry at all. Bingo, infinite number of random maps with no pirates and everyone playing random gen'd maps wins. This is non-trivial programming, but there should likely be some more options for random map generation anyway, much like the random map options in GalCiv. No Pirates is the obvious first one to get in there.

With just those two changes, I think you'll see more people enjoying the pirate threat as much as you do, when they want it, at the pace that keeps it balanced.

I do appreciate your interaction and contact with the community, and I want to encourage you to view the passion with which your community engages with you to be a good thing. People love your work. The more they love it, the more glaring the pieces they love less stand out.


Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top
Perhaps the most important one, the speed of the game should scale the time between pirate attacks
End of quote

that is a good point.
Besides, we'd also like to take some time to evaluate possible side effects of their removal that we haven't considered yet.
End of quote

*pulls out an ambiguous, but obviously exotic and probably painful to get hit with weapon*

do NOT remove the pirates blair, or I swear I will get you with this ambiguous, but obviously exotic and probably painful to get hit with weapon. do not kowtow to the large society of players just yet.
Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates are fine, easy to deal with, even in large numbers. Their ships may as well be made of paper and are easily repulsed by even a small defense fleet with a cap-ship. TBH, learn2play.
Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top
Don't listen to Schod, he doesn't know what he is talking about... ever :P
Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top

1) Perhaps the most important one, the speed of the game should scale the time between pirate attacks. On a Slow game (which I prefer), the resource flow is too slow to make a pirate attack every 12min reasonable to deal with. Scale the basic numbers along with the rest of the delays and the ballance'll be retained with only minor coding requirements.
End of quote

This should already be implicit. The pirate size is proportional to the amount of money involved. Slower income means less money for bounty which means less pirates.

2) On the random maps, add an option for No Pirates.
End of quote

Possibly. Like I said earlier we need to take some time to evaluate all the options and consequences.

I do appreciate your interaction and contact with the community, and I want to encourage you to view the passion with which your community engages with you to be a good thing. People love your work.
End of quote

Oh for sure we do! We wouldn't have had an open beta since March if we didn't appreciate everyone's feedback - that is how Sins got to where it is today. Infact the existing pirate system is the product of the majority's feedback and creative input. We couldn't have honed it was well as we have (clearly a subjective opinion) without them. :)

Nontheless, everyone is a paying customer and we are looking at ways to improve things for everyone. It may just take a bit of time to sort out the details.

Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top
key word being "time", I know how good the devs are at listening to people, maybe a bit too much so.
Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top
Not when they listen to you of course though, right?

Cause the game soo definetly has to be like you want it :P
Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top
 they've listened long and hard to me, they just chose to mock and parody my ideas instead of utilizing them :SNIFF!:
Reply #63 from Sins Forums Top
As it should be.
Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top
beats being the useless forum troll hippy!
Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top
wooo, so the more you pay the pirates, the bigger they get.

This could prove VERY useful.
Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top

You didnt pay anyone to make a game...
End of quote


Sure I did, didn't I? I paid Ironclad for their hard work and intellectual property. Do you grasp the nature of a simple business transaction? I'm not saying I paid them much, but don't pretend they're the lord Jesus Christ from on high come to bestow upon me (for free) some sacred item.


rather you bought a game someone was nice enough to sell to you, that they spent years making
End of quote


Nice enough? I think your fanboyism is just a bit too much for me. You lick their boots just for having the benevolence to share this game with us, the unwashed gaming masses.

The funny thing is I don't even really mind pirates. But rooting them into the mapfile rather than having some algorithm that randomly places them in maps dynamically (much like resources) or allows you to turn them off seems a questionable design decision, in my non-professional opinion.

Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top

This should already be implicit. The pirate size is proportional to the amount of money involved. Slower income means less money for bounty which means less pirates.


End of quote


I'm not sure that this is actually the way it works given the current AI, though. They're happy to pop up at least a small 250 gold bounty even when it isn't necessarily a great idea. Which is why shifting the timer a bit would help with that.


Possibly. Like I said earlier we need to take some time to evaluate all the options and consequences.


End of quote


The advantage as an option for the random maps is that it's the decision of the players so impact is minimal. As long as it's one of the traits mentioned on the multiplayer map description, the impact to balance isn't really a developer issue, in that sense. Just like the fact you can create a map without a pirate base by hand, making it an option for automagic creation doesn't really have more impact.


Nontheless, everyone is a paying customer and we are looking at ways to improve things for everyone. It may just take a bit of time to sort out the details.


End of quote


And that's why you have a fanatical fanbase. :)

Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates are easy to handle. Just raise the bounty of another player higher then yours. Very simple. Now that I know this I've only had one pirate attack against me and it was one that I actually allowed so that my capital ships could gain a couple extra goodies before I went after an AI controlled world. You will hear audio when the bounty on your head is highest, simply go to the pirate screen and pay more. Done deal.
Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top
I've been playing Sins since..... well... I was in the first batch o download beta 1 (back when the Arcova was the main frigate - before cobalts were added), and I absolutely love pirates. Granted, I took a couple months off shortly after beta 4, so I'm rusty getting back in.

Anyway, I use pirates to my advantage every time; I get my games quicker and cheaper without copy protection crap.... oh wait, LOL! <-- joke

-->Real: In regards to the ones that actually attack you; I use pirates as a means of rather effective proxy war. I ramp up the bounty (yes I usually have the money to do this) and let the pirates do any one or combination of the following:
-Soften up enemy fleets and defenses,
-Stop an enemy from rebuilding or finish them when I can no longer spare required forces to do this my self (happened in a 4 way FFA today with great results),
-Use them to hold back a main enemy force when to hit a junction/area the enemy needs to pass first while I hit their rear planets,
-Draw off enemy forces for me to slip in,
-and cause general havoc with the enemy.

As for the local militias (pirates who start and stay in a single system), they are good for the following:
-Leveling up cap ships.
-Stopping rapid over expansion.
-Stopping or hurting early rushes (unless you're really good).


I say do no remove pirates, but like all things I believe, they should be an option dictated by the user.
Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates really are the the gift that keeps on giving and they add so much to the subterfuge & strategy aspects of the game. People really should show them proper love. :HOT:
Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top
I'm sure if we shoot eet at their planet through the novalith, that'll be all the loving they'll ever need.
Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top

Sure I did, didn't I? I paid Ironclad for their hard work and intellectual property. Do you grasp the nature of a simple business transaction? I'm not saying I paid them much, but don't pretend they're the lord Jesus Christ from on high come to bestow upon me (for free) some sacred item.
End of quote


Paying them for a game they made != paying them to make a game.

One is paying for a finished good, the other getting them to craft something to your specifications.
Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top
No one is asking for the Pirates to be removed completely.

What kind of study needs to be done to determine whether the user should have the option to turn pirates off in a random map? The question is why the user is forced to deal with pirates now, whether he wants to or not.

As I said earlier, if the Pirate concept is so integral to the functioning of the game then it raises much more serious questions in my mind about the game, itself, that goes beyond simply the ridiculous nature of a large roaming fleet of interstellar buccaneers with super-advanced ships that overly influence the early game and are quickly destroyed or dispersed later without trouble.

If I could turn them off with a simple click on the random map generator, I wouldn't be here posting about the game. I'd be playing it without reservation for the entire evening. As it is, I'm not sure where I'm going to want to sit through another game. Having played for 4-5 hours tonight and dealt with pirates dozens of times just in that space of time, I'm kind of SIN'd out.

As for the idea that since I can design my own map without pirates so its not valid to ask why the option to simply turn them off isn't present in the random map generator, that's complete nonsense. If the Pirates are absolutely integral to the game, why are they not present in some maps and why can they be turned off in a user created map? And if they aren't so integral that some maps don't include them and the user can disable them by creating their own map, why not just include a simple option when generating a random map to remove them?

I just don't understand some of the posts on this thread at all.
Reply #74 from Sins Forums Top
i love the pirates ...true a nice button to toggle it on/off 4 ppl who dont like them might be nice but to remove them all 2ghter will be madness!!!

if they start nerfing pirates and the AI in 1 week everyone will whine that the game is too easy...

how can u ask to remove the pirates after 1 day of play??? maybe ur tax just isnt good enough? maybe in a week u will counter them with ease and then complaine there isnt enough pirates...

i LOVE the AI and i LOVE the pirates finaly an AI that gives a challange and a stupid crap AI who just sits there doing nothing.

just make a button to toggle on/of pirates but do not remove them ffs!
Reply #75 from Sins Forums Top
Again, not a single person who has criticized pirates in this thread has asked for them to be removed completely.

That is a "straw man" proposition put up by the people who like the pirates to mask the true question in the thread: why some people aren't allowed to turn them off in the random map generator.