Angels

The Good Angels That Is

I've been studying angels lately thru a course I'm taking from Liberty. I've never done a study on angels before but found it interesting. Some people are fascinated with this subject. Some even border on or are full blown worshippers of angels. Many don't realize that angels in scripture are always mentioned as male (Gabriel and Michael ) but yet when we go to the store and pick up a figurine of an angel it's usually depicted as female. Why is that?

What do you know about angels? Most know there are good angels and bad angels and that they are ministering spirits. For many that's as far as it goes. But there is so much more about angels we don't usually think about. Here for the sake of time I'm just focusing on the faithful angels. Maybe later I'll come back with something on evil angels.

I found angels mentioned 273 times in scripture, 108 in the OT and 165 in the NT. So where do they come from? Well from scripture we know their origin comes from God; a special act of God created especially to worship the Son of God before the creation of the earth. They are invisible spirit beings who do not possess flesh and bone. They are as innumerable as the stars in the heavens for angels are associated with the stars.

From scripture I can see they possess individual personalities. We can see they are intelligent with a will and can display emotion. Angels are superior to man but inferior to God. They are stronger and smarter than man. They are not omnipresent, omnipotent or omniscient.

We know they cannot die and the original number of angels will never increase or decrease. They also seem to follow a ranking system. We have the archangels. Two are mentioned by name, Michael & Gabriel. Militarily speaking they would be compared to a 5 Star General.

Michael is mentioned by name on 4 separate occasions. He helps lesser ranked angels. He is going to be the one who will stand up for Israel during the coming tribulation. He disputed with Satan concerning the body of Moses and he is forefront in the fighting of Satan in the heavenlies.

Gabriel is the announcing angel. He spoke to Daniel and was the bearer of good news to Mary and Zacharias on the upcoming birth of their sons. He was the one who warned Joseph in a dream about the plot of Herod.

Then on down the line we can see the mention of Cherubims and Seraphims. Both have wings. Cherubims have 4 wings and Seraphims have 6 wings. A cherubim has four faces. The face of a man in the front and a face as a lion on the right. He has a face as an ox on the left and the face in back as an eagle. They apparently travel in groups of four.

If you remember, it was Cherubim who were placed at the entrance to the garden to keep Adam from it. Golden Cherubim were also constructed, at God's command, and placed at either end on top of the ark of the covenant. Satan was a Cherub angel. Actually he was called the Chief Cherub. Maybe he didn't want that position. We know he desires God's position, but maybe he was looking at Michael first and wanted his job? What? Not General Archangel? Who knows? We do know that he rebelled and took 1/3 of the angels with him to war against God and the faithful angels.

There are other angels. We have ruling angels, guardian angels and angels associated with horses and chariots. Angels have names and titles as well. They are called ministers, host, chariots, watchers, sons of the mighty, sons of God, Holy ones and stars.

So what do they do? I found they have many activities. They worship God, they observe the people of God, they inquire into the prophetical plan of God, they rejoice in the works of God and they perform the will of God. They also witness the wrath of God. For us down here they inform, instruct and interpret both the will and word of God. We see this in conversations with Daniel, Zechariah, Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, the apostles, Phillip, Cornelius and John.

They also protect, comfort and deliver us. They also minister to us even in death as they carry us to God when we take our last breath as we read in the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

I found out in my study angels are instrumental in judging the unsaved. They judged the Egyptians, Sodomites and Assyrians as well as Herod. They will judge the earth during the Tribulation as they pronounce the seven trumpet judgments. They cast Satan and his angels out of heaven. They anounce the eternal Hell to unbelievers and predict the fall of Babylon. They will pour out the seven vial judgments, seal the 144,000 and announce Armageddon. They also will accompay Christ at the second coming. Whew! They are very busy. No wonder there are so many of them.

Concerning Israel we see from scripture that the angels fought for Israel. They gave the law to Israel and will in the future regather faithful Israel.

Concerning the Messiah they worship Him as they were made by Him and for Him. They predicted His birth as well as announcing it. After he was born, they protected him and ministered to Him in the wilderness and later in the garden before his death. They rolled away his tombstone and announced His resurrection. They predicted His second coming and will accompany Him when he does come back. They are in total subjection to Him.

Their destiny is to be with us in the New Jerusalem for all eternity.
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Reply #1 Top

Won't believers sit in on the judgment of fallen angels?

I love that God made an Army of warrior/helpers to take care of business.  I love the thought of Michael and Gabriel running things.  It's all so orderly and military, which I can totally relate too.

I think the reason figurines are women is because they don't reflect heavenly angels, but more man's idea of comfort.  They are a form of art if you will.  Personally, I collect angels.  Not because I think they are related to God in anyway, but because I think they are beautiful and they make me smile.  I don't bow to them, or get upset if one breaks....but I like them.  (Maybe because in my dreams, the best ability to have is being able to fly.  heh)

Reply #2 Top
The ones you hang out with, LW, our jealous of us because we have authority over the Earth, and they do not.
Reply #3 Top
Won't believers sit in on the judgment of fallen angels?


I think you're referring to 1 Cor 6:3 which says:

"Know you not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life? 1 Cor 6:3

and in Matthew remember Jesus told the disciples they would sit on thrones and judge ungodly Israel?

So I was thinking about those two verses today and thinking how is this going to happen? I mean I can't imagine we are all going to sit there in our judges robes and point fingers at the bad angels or ungodly Israel one by one are we? I mean we're talking about quite a crowd here. Besides everything I read about the second coming seems to put Christ in the Judge's seat, not us.

So the only thing I can come up with especially reading Paul in context in 1 Cor is that just by our lives and how we are believers is going to be a judgment against them. I think that's what Paul was getting at when he said...."how much more things that pertain to this life?"

And Uriel. And Raphael.


Well since I don't recognize these names from scripture where are you getting them from?

Nope. God loves us best, which makes us infinitely superior to any mere angel. Why do you think they're jealous of us?


Okay, have to ask.....where do you get they are jealous over us? I read they rejoice when one becomes a child of God. They love what God loves and rejoice over what God rejoices over.

As far as superiority goes here's the scripture I'm referring.....

"What is man that you are mindful of Him? And the son of man, that you visit him? For you have made him a little lower than the angels and have crowned him with glory and honor. Psalm 8:4-5

You'll also see this in Hebrews 2:6-11 and see that even Jesus, in his incarnation, was made a little lower than the angels as well because he had to take on human flesh, suffer and die .

Reply #4 Top
Well since I don't recognize these names from scripture where are you getting them from?
End of quote


Did a search and apparently there are three more: Raguel, Sariel, and Jerahmeel. Books of Enoch and Tobit.

Learning is fun!

~Zoo
Reply #5 Top
Did a search and apparently there are three more: Raguel, Sariel, and Jerahmeel. Books of Enoch and Tobit.


These books are not part of the 66 books of scripture that I'm referring to. I've heard of these books and call them extra-biblical writings but not part of what was accepted by the historic Chrisitan Church.

The only two names mentioned in scripture concerning angels are Michael and Gabriel.

Learning is fun....lol.
Reply #7 Top
I enjoyed reading your article. I'm sure you understand when I say it was a nice change from politics and Evolution Theory!

Something that I might add is that the angels are not all equal in dignity, size or splendour. They are divided into 9 classes called choirs according to their rank or office and their degree of wisdom, power and glory...they are:

ANgels...archangels...virtues...powers...principalities..dominations, thrones...cherubim and seraphim.

Many don't realize that angels in scripture are always mentioned as male (Gabriel and Michael ) but yet when we go to the store and pick up a figurine of an angel it's usually depicted as female. Why is that?
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Interesting point about figurines in stores depicting angels as female. I never noticed that before. In the CC, pictures of holy angels are always represented as male or youthful boys with wings or playing harps holding a lily in their hands.

Concerning Israel we see from scripture that the angels fought for Israel. They gave the law to Israel
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The OT tells us that the course of Israel through eras and empires that God used the angels as messengers to project knowledge and communicate His truth. With the Advent of Christ into the world, the prime office of angel, mediation between God and men was overshadowed by our Lord's perfect mediation. Where the OLd Law came through the ministry of GOd's angels Gal. 3:19; Heb 2:2, the New Law came through Christ, infinitely superior to the angels and adored by them. The Christian dispensation is not subject to angels, but to the Lord, Jesus Christ, Heb. 2:5-18.







Reply #8 Top
These books are not part of the 66 books of scripture that I'm referring to. I've heard of these books and call them extra-biblical writings but not part of what was accepted by the historic Chrisitan Church.
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What's wrong with extras? They're nice in DVDs why not the Bible?

~Zoo
Reply #9 Top
New, Bible extended version! Now with never-before-seen musical number!
Reply #10 Top
What's wrong with extras? They're nice in DVDs why not the Bible?


The book is always better than the movie......dinchaknow?

Reply #11 Top
ZOo Posts:
Did a search and apparently there are three more: Raguel, Sariel, and Jerahmeel. Books of Enoch and Tobit.

Learning is fun!
End of quote


KFC posts:
These books are not part of the 66 books of scripture that I'm referring to. I've heard of these books and call them extra-biblical writings
End of quote


Ya, Zoo, I kid KFC that by limiting herself to the Protestant version, she's not working with a full deck!  :LOL: 

Reply #12 Top
hahahahah Lula you are so funny..... :p 

Maybe according to the Catholics I'm not working with a full deck....but I think you've gone....overboard!!!

Reply #13 Top
Catholics play with jokers. And the rules card that comes in the pack. To each their own!
Reply #14 Top
The book is always better than the movie......dinchaknow?
End of quote


Then written extras are better than DVD extras. :)

~Zoo
Reply #15 Top
What's wrong with extras? They're nice in DVDs
End of quote


What are DVD extras anyway?
Reply #16 Top
What are DVD extras anyway?
End of quote


Usually bloopers, deleted scenes, commentary, on the set stuff, interviews...stuff like that.

~Zoo
Reply #17 Top
Got it, Zoo, thanks...


Reply #18 Top
I believe I might be able to help you here. I know a bit about angels.

First of all, the Hebrew for "angel" is "meleekh" (ML'K) which is a modification of "melekh" (MLK) which means "king". A "meleekh" is, gramatically, something generated (or sent) by a king.

From this the meaning "messenger from the king" and finally "messenger" derives. An angel is a messenger. "Angelos" is Greek for "messenger". (In fact, "evangelium" derives from the Greek for "good message".)

In the Biblical sense an angel is something sent by the King, i.e. the Creator, a messenger of G-d if you so will.


I've been studying angels lately thru a course I'm taking from Liberty. I've never done a study on angels before but found it interesting. Some people are fascinated with this subject. Some even border on or are full blown worshippers of angels.
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Yes, and that is dangerous. Rabbi Maimonides (THE historic authority for Jewish law and history/mythology) wrote in the 12th century CE:

"If one of the multitude refuses to believe that angels are incorporeal and prefers to believe that angels have bodies and even that they eat, since it is written 'they ate', or that those who exist in the World to Come will also have bodies—we won't hold it against him or consider him a heretic, and we will not distance ourselves from him. May there not be many who profess this folly, and let us hope that he will go no farther than this in his folly and believe that the Creator is corporeal."

Maimonides argues that angels are metaphors for the laws of nature and that the Bible described the effects of "angel activity" in the same poetic way it describes everything else. A "hand of G-d" is mentioned, but G-d doesn't have a hand in the sense that you and I have hands. Desriptions of angels are similar.


Many don't realize that angels in scripture are always mentioned as male (Gabriel and Michael ) but yet when we go to the store and pick up a figurine of an angel it's usually depicted as female. Why is that?
End of quote


The reason is simply that angels are incorporeal and can be imagined as either male or female.

In the Guide for the Perplexed, Maimonides covers that question in Part 1, chapter XLIX "Figurative Expressions Applied to Angels".

It's on page 65 in my edition:

"The angels are likewise incoporeal; they are intelligences without matter, but they are nevertheless created beings, and G-d created them, as will be explaine below [...] By this remark [he quoted Genesis] they clearly stated that angels are incorporeal, and have no permanent bodily form independent of the mind of him who perceives them, they exist entirely in prophetic vision, and depend on the action of the imaginative power, as will be explained when speaking of the true meaning of prophecy. As to the words 'at another time as females', which imply that the Prophets in prophetical vision perceived angels also in the form of women, they refer to the vision of Zecheriah [quotes Bible]. You know very well how difficult it is for men [I assumes he means human beings, not 'men' specifically :-)] to form a notion of anything immaterial, and entirely devoid of corporality, except after considerable training: it is especially difficult for those who do not distinguish between objects of the intellect and objects of the imagination, and depend mostly on the mere imaginative power."

He goes on to explain that most people have such problems and cannot differentiate between things they imagine and things that (can) really exist.

Read the entire chapter for more.

Note that that was 800 years ago. Today, with computers and the Internet and movies etc. it has become a lot easier to imagine objects that don't exist, like this "forum" we are posting "to".


What do you know about angels?
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I know that they only speak Aramaic, at least that is an old legend I have heard. It was perhaps meant as symbolism for the fact that the original greatest enemies of Israel, the Babylonians, who spoke Aramaic where a type of natural disaster or message from G-d. I don't know.

This is one reason I don't believe that Muhammed really spoke to the angel Gabriel, because Muhammed, being an Ishmaeli, spoke Arabic and not Aramaic and he claimed to have received the message in Arabic.

(Hebrew is close enough to Aramaic for people to understand each other, I suppose. The only Aramaic speaker I ever spoke to did understand Hebrew well.)

Reply #19 Top
There is a song in my (reform) prayer book about angels:

Shalom aleynu, meleekhi haShareth, meleekhi elion,

MeMelekh malekhi haMalakhim, haQadosh barukh hu.

Peace (be) on you, ministering messengers (actually: "messengers the ministering"), messengers (of) the most high,

From (the) king king (of) the kings, the holy praise Him.

(The song goes on a bit. Most of it is praising the lord and welcoming the angels.)


Reply #20 Top

Usually bloopers, deleted scenes, commentary, on the set stuff, interviews...stuff like that.
End of quote


Ouch! If the movie is the Bible, I can imagine some of the bloopers and I don't want to know the "deleted scenes".

Reminds me of the "Celebrate!!!! Not celibate." joke.

Interviews?
Reply #21 Top
KFC posts:
"Angels are superior to man but inferior to God. "
End of quote


There is an infinite difference between Almighty God and the highest of angels.


It's true that angels are superior to man in that God has endowed them with gifts that are superior to all other created beings. They are superior to man in the sense that they have sublime understanding, great strength, grace and their wills are holy, but not infinitely holy as God is.

Like us and everything else of God's Creation, they were created for the honor and glory of God.

LITTLE WHIP POSTS:
Nope. God loves us best, which makes us infinitely superior to any mere angel. Why do you think they're jealous of us?
End of quote


I remember reading something to the effect that God loves us more than the angels. I've delayed posting this hoping to find where I read that for more clarification. I think, but am not positively sure, that when all is said and done, in our eternal life, we, in our glorified state, will be above the angels.

The good angels are not jealous of us though, not at all. Jealousy is a sin and they are holy and exist for the glory and honor of God.





Reply #22 Top
Maimonides argues that angels are metaphors for the laws of nature and that the Bible described the effects of "angel activity" in the same poetic way it describes everything else. A "hand of G-d" is mentioned, but G-d doesn't have a hand in the sense that you and I have hands. Desriptions of angels are similar.
End of quote


From reading this I would disagree with Maimonides...Angels are more than just metaphors for the laws of nature. As a matter of fact the laws of nature, as we understand them, don't apply to angels.

The angels are pure spirits. Yet, if it is God's will that men should see and hear them, when they are sent as messengers from Him, they are able to manifest their presence by taking upon a bodily form. Take for example, the holy archangel Gabriel who appeared to Zacharais and to our Lady, the Blessed mother of Christ as written in Sacred Scripture.


This is one reason I don't believe that Muhammed really spoke to the angel Gabriel,
End of quote


This is an interesting point. I never thought of it in terms of language. I don't believe Muhammed really spoke to Gabriel either, mainly becasue the Qur'an was the result and most of what's in that runs contrary to Sacred Scripture....but that's a whole different discussion.


Reply #23 Top
There are other angels. We have ruling angels, guardian angels
End of quote


Yes, by God's providence, a guardian angel has been appointed to every one of us.

Christ speaks of children having guardian angels when He said, "See that you despise not one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always see the face of My Father who is in Heaven.". St. Matt. 18:10.

Reply #24 Top
Interesting Leauki. Thanks for your thoughts. I've not heard of what you speak of before. Are you a reformed Jew? A couple things came to mind thinking about how scripture fits into what you said.

"If one of the multitude refuses to believe that angels are incorporeal and prefers to believe that angels have bodies and even that they eat
End of quote


I believe angels are spirit beings but real. As far as eating is concerned we do have at least two instances where we've seen them eating in scripture.

In Chap 18 of Genesis Abaham entertained three angels, one believed to be pre-incarnate Jesus. We read that he prepared a meal for this trio.

"And he took butter and milk and the calf which he had dressed and set it before them and he stood by them under the tree and they did eat."

Also later two of these angels went to Sodom to rescue Lot. While there they enjoyed a nice meal prepared by Lot. Genesis 19:3 says:

"And he (Lot) pressed upon them (the angels) greatly and they turned in to him and entered into his house and he made them a feast and did bake unleavened bread and they did eat."

We see after the resurrection of Christ that he too did eat. Some believe after seeing all this that this shows that when in the Kingdom of God we will be eating. Ha! Probably no calories but eating just the same.

I know that they only speak Aramaic, at least that is an old legend I have heard.
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I've not heard this before either. By looking at all the people spoken to in scripture I'd have to say that the angels most likely speak to the hearers in their own langage. I'm pretty sure these intelligent beings will be able to speak more than one language like even some of us can.

This is one reason I don't believe that Muhammed really spoke to the angel Gabriel, because Muhammed, being an Ishmaeli, spoke Arabic and not Aramaic and he claimed to have received the message in Arabic.
End of quote


Well I agree that I don't believe Muhammed really spoke to a faithful angel either but not so sure he didn't speak to an evil one. There are good angels and bad angels. Like Lula said what was said in that cave by this angel and brought forth later contradicted scripture and would be more likely from a scriptural POV as being warefare.

Even this experience nearly scared the pants off Muhammed. He himself thought he spoke to a demon. That is, until he brought his wife into the picture.

As a matter of fact the laws of nature, as we understand them, don't apply to angels.
End of quote


True. I would agree with this.





Reply #25 Top

Interesting Leauki. Thanks for your thoughts. I've not heard of what you speak of before. Are you a reformed Jew? A couple things came to mind thinking about how scripture fits into what you said.
End of quote


A "Reform" synagogue is a non-Orthodox synagogue. A Jew is a Jew. The beliefs or interpretations of Jewish law do not make one more Jewish or less.


I believe angels are spirit beings but real. As far as eating is concerned we do have at least two instances where we've seen them eating in scripture.
End of quote


You must remember that Hebrew, like Arabic, is a very poetic language. There is only one word for "word" and "thing", and only one word for "read" and "happen" (and "recite" and related meanings). You cannot translate a Hebrew text into English and read "eat" as "eat" when it refers to beings that do not need to eat.


In Chap 18 of Genesis Abaham entertained three angels, one believed to be pre-incarnate Jesus. We read that he prepared a meal for this trio.
End of quote


Yes, he would have. It's customary in the region to prepare a meal for any guest. It would be impolite not to, much like failing to greet a guest in the English-speaking world.


By looking at all the people spoken to in scripture I'd have to say that the angels most likely speak to the hearers in their own language. I'm pretty sure these intelligent beings will be able to speak more than one language like even some of us can.
End of quote


Abraham lived a long time ago, 4000 years at least. At that time Aramaic and Hebrew were still the same language, they only differentiated perhaps 3000 years ago and are still very similar.

Remember that the Bible tells us that the reason for human languages to be different from each other is because of man's arrogance. That doesn't tell us anything about linguistics (because we know that languages change all the time anyway, for example English and German were still the same 1500 years ago, i.e. there are lots of reasons for languages to change), but it does tell us that the reason for languages to change applies to humans, not those beings that don't know arrogance.

Angels, whatever they are, have no reason to change the way they speak, as long as (some) humans can still understand them. If they had changed their language or adapted, it would have been mentioned.


Well I agree that I don't believe Muhammed really spoke to a faithful angel either but not so sure he didn't speak to an evil one.
End of quote


Muhammed spoke to himself.