we are talking about telling people

from JoeUser Forums
that they cannot vote because they don't measure up to our standards.

but where does it stop.

in england it used to be that they only ones with any rights were the royals and the nobles

then they decided that anyone who was a member of the church of england had rights.

then along came 13 colonies who gave everyone rights except for the slaves.

then there was a so called civil war that finally gave these rights to the slaves(read ex).




now we are going all the way back to telling people that if you don't know something you can't vote.

using this criteria that means the only ones who can vote will be those with phd's.


so tell me where does it end. there are more people voting and have always voted who don't know the issues.


go ahead little whip keep making fun at me. it only shows how stupid you are.
8,022 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gah, you really are uninformed.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gah, you really are uninformed.
End of quote

Dharma, he's now going to think you think he wears a uniform.  ;) 
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gah, you really are uninformed.
End of quote


look i know it is important to know the issues if your going to vote.


but i still say it is slightly more important to get people to want to vote in the first place. knowing the issues will not help you get into the voting booth.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Learn a little history Daniel. In the 13 Original Colonies (before the U.S.), there were more than just slaves who couldn't vote. In most colonies women couldn't vote (although it's a little known fact that a few of the colonies allowed them to), if you didn't own property you couldn't vote, if you were endentured you couldn't vote.

No one is calling for a return to voting tests so complicated that even those writing the test couldn't pass, or imposing a "grandfather claus".

What many get frustrated with are the total ignoramouses whose random and arbitrary vote may cancel out our vote.

MTV says, "Just get out and vote".. but if the person's vote is based on absolutely nothing, it did more harm than good.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Learn a little history Daniel. In the 13 Original Colonies (before the U.S.),
End of quote


Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
What many get frustrated with are the total ignoramouses whose random and arbitrary vote may cancel out our vote.
End of quote




this is going to happen any ways because the people who vote for the other person will always be ignoramouses whose random and arbitrary vote will cancel out our vote.


it does not matter who we are or who they are or how much they now about the issues.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
I can live with someone else's vote cancelling mine out because they simply disagree with me, so they voted for the other guy... but there is absolutely NO difference between the uniformed voters and just throwing a dart at a board with pictures of all the candidates.

If that is what you are defending, I pity you.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes we sure are. Isn't freedom of speech a wonderful thing?
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but you want to kill their freedom not to care to learn.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
but you want to kill their freedom not to care to learn.
End of quote


No, it is people who vote out of ignorance that are killing freedom. In fact our founding fathers said that freedom is wasted on the ignorant.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
No, it is people who vote out of ignorance that are killing freedom. In fact our founding fathers said that freedom is wasted on the ignorant.
End of quote


and yet they didn't say they couldn't vote or shouldn't vote.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Learn a little history Daniel. In the 13 Original Colonies (before the U.S.),
End of quote

Oh, my....

Dani, you need to learn a bit of history.  "Ex-slaves" (as you put it) gained the right to vote with the 15th Amendment, which was passed in 1870 (we had 37 states at the time).

Women didn't have the right to vote until the 19th Amendment, which was in frikkin' 1920.  There were all of the continental 48 states by that time!

BTW, there were only 13 colonies BEFORE THE U.S.  After that, they were the 13 STATES.

gah.....Cornflakes

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
then along came 13 colonies who gave everyone rights except for the slaves.
End of quote




sorry to both of you. but when the 13 colonies were still 13 colonies they were allowing all non slave males to vote. that was a long time before there was 13 states.


the only thing that the 13 colonies didn't have was self determination. meaning that the English crown could over turn any laws, trade treaties, and tax cuts or what ever. which is what the crown was doing. in fact the crown and Parliament were making the colonies pay for most of the empires expenses.


which is where no taxation without representation came from.


and your right i should have said all non-slave males. not everyone.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
oh and not all 13 colonies gave all non-slave males the right to vote but some of them did. which is where that right came from in the constitution.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
if the person's vote is based on absolutely nothing, it did more harm than good.
End of quote


True. But the solution is not to prevent them from voting. Teach them even if you have to drag them to classes. it is difficult, i dont need anyone to tell me that. it is even very difficult. But who ever said that real democracy is cheap or easy or even not messy. that is its price. and it is still better than anyother way of picking a government.

PS: this is a perfect example that the problems those people have actually cause "more harm" to all of us. that is why we HAVE to teach them. so they dont do harm to the rest of us. not only out of morality but also out of pure self-interest.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
True. But the solution is not to prevent them from voting. Teach them even if you have to drag them to classes. it is difficult, i dont need anyone to tell me that. it is even very difficult. But who ever said that real democracy is cheap or easy or even not messy. that is its price. and it is still better than anyother way of picking a government.

PS: this is a perfect example that the problems those people have actually cause "more harm" to all of us. that is why we HAVE to teach them. so they dont do harm to the rest of us. not only out of morality but also out of pure self-interest.
End of quote




this is what i have been saying. i just didn't use the nice words.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
Yes, they need to be taught. Most of all, they need to be taught that ignorance isn't something to brag about or be proud of... which is far to common these days. Education is the best way to combat the problem, but you can't force education on people in a free society, you can only make it available to them.

On the other hand, you can attach consequences to people's choices in a free society... that is what laws are.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

and your right i should have said all non-slave males. not everyone.
End of quote

Sorry, but that is not a simple mistake.  There is a HUGE difference between "everyone" and "just 'non-slave' males".

 

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
What about those who utterly refuse to be taught? Daniel is a perfect example.
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Refusing to be taught is a choice... not letting the voluntarily ignorant vote is the consequence attached.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
not letting the voluntarily ignorant vote is the consequence attached.
End of quote


sorry but this is also a choice


What about those who utterly refuse to be taught? Daniel is a perfect example.
End of quote



I learn what I want to learn. but I don't hold a person's choice about learning or not learning against them.


I do hold stupid things people who are supposed to know better against them. like gene and his using the wrong words when he has supposedly written one or two books.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
sorry but this is also a choice
End of quote


Exactly, and there is nothing wrong with attaching consequences to choices. We do it all the time... they are called "laws".