There are many people out there with all degrees of issues that, if the school gives into this complaint, could be used to demand further special treatment.

yes, exactly and the slippery slope I was referring to. There are all sorts of ways these types of things could play out. We do for one, we'll have to do for the rest sooner or later based on what's already been allowed.

Can someone say segregation?

Segregation. There....I said it!! lol

Oh how about this one... a white student demands a white-only change room because he's not comfortable in mixed race company... cites biological differences. How would that one play out?

ha! I'd tell him to go home and use his white only at-home bathroom or get over it. .....but hey....that's just me.

You're getting on in years, so I'll forgive your ignorance of the current state of play with bathroom usage. Women already use men's bathrooms when they need to, so frankly if a man wants to use a woman's bathroom I really don't think women have anything to complain about.

Change rooms are different - I've been to places with unisex change rooms and they tend to be pretty segregated anyway, guys on one side, girls on the other. Whether that will change over the years I don't claim to know, but I don't think it's anything to be scared of - if you don't want other people to see you naked don't get undressed in public places. If you don't want to see naked people, move to Saudi Arabia. You're definitely in the minority where you live.



I'm fine with that. It's fair enough, and at an increasing number of places around the world that's becoming the case.

I've never believed in this alleged inability of otherwise sane men and women to avoid raping each other as soon as they see each other naked. We let children see each other naked and they tend to turn out okay. Not every situation is sexualised, and if you have a problem with controlling your sexual urges then there's no better place to figure yourself out than college. Our ancestors managed to deal with public nudity with no problems. We can do the same if we can be arsed.

But, until the universe becomes a utopia where everyone believes as I do, I don't think it's so stupid to ask around to see if anyone who uses that locker room would consider it an issue. They probably do, in which case an alternative situation should be arranged. Transgenders are becoming more common or at least coming out of the alleyways and bars. They need to be catered for.
Whether that's with a unisex bathroom as well as/instead of male/female only ones or through simple social change to accept that gender has nothing to do with biology, it still has to be dealt with appropriately.

What is next is Elizabeth will complain that people in the locker room are making her feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. This has nothing to do with gender identity or equal rights, this has everything to do with a person who has decided that her comfort and feelings are the only ones that matter. Everyone else should just understand and allow her to do what she wants... and if they won't, she wants a judge to order the world to live her fantasies with her.

lol

Isn't that what they did with the workplace?

No, I agree that is absurdly extreme, cacto.

What I am concerned with is not this woman's actions, but the fact that 1) I don't feel comfortable with a woman with free access to a men's restroom (dire emergencies are understandable and excusable, but I'm talking about on a regular basis) and DEFINITELY not in a locker room setting. Nor do most men. And that's why such places have "Men" and "women" over the door. 2) I am concerned about the legal precedent this would set that would allow certain individuals to claim gender identity disorder in order to gain access to people in a vulnerable state. Sexual predators are called that for a reason, you know. And one of the "rules" of political correctness is that you aren't even allowed to challenge their disability; if they claim it, you must accept it at face value. I discovered this when I worked overnights at a WalMart and a college football player would come in and ride the handicapped carts throughout the store.



Well said!

I'm mostly with you on this. After at least 10 years of having women come in and use the men's cubicles whenever they feel like it (generally at public functions where the girls' line is ridiculously long) I've gotten to the point where it doesn't bother me.

Change rooms are different, but most transgenders are pretty similar physically to their 'new' biological sex, and even preops can be hard to pick until they're naked. If the only way you can tell is with a thorough examination of their genitalia, I'm not sure what the problem is.

Of course that doesn't seem to be the case here, but it's something to think about. Where do we draw the line?



It's a tricky one, and frankly I don't have a solution except to have a third changeroom anyone can use. One possibility would be to have gender identity a legal status that can be changed through deed poll; proof of gender would need to be shown where it becomes questionable (eg a college football player would need to show his officially female card before getting into the women's changerooms).

But it is something we should be talking about as more than just a 'oh noes, the sky's falling in cos of these detestable trannies where is the world coming to' deal. They're people too.

Yup...but they need to keep to the locker room of the gender they currently hold...lol!

As for bathrooms, I agree. I've got no way of knowing if the "guy" in the stall next to me is a woman, nor, frankly, do I WANT to know. And I'm hoping that "guy" doesn't want to know about ME either...lol!

just keep your tosies to yourself and don't reach under the door in any shape or form and you'll be ok Gid....lol.

The question still comes down to, why should all of society have to change just to make sure Elizabeth doesn't feel uncomforable?

Even better question: Will being allowed in the men's locker room make her any more comfortable with being trapped in a woman's body?

Great question.


Are we becoming more concerned about one's self-esteem or self worth?

I know it's not PC (but I don't care) but this person is troubled. I'm not trying to argue the cause but state that the result is this individual has some serious issues.

I don't understand why we would even consider concessions to a person who is troubled with their own gender.

The locker room isn't the ONLY place to change clothes.

I know the article didn't address whether the student lived on or off campus but while I was in college I more often than not would put on my work-out clothes and if it was cold I would put on warmer clothes on top of them. At the gym I would shed the outer layers and put them in the bag I brought with me. During that time didn't need to use the locker room.

Another thing I did (although probably not fully advisable) was changing in my pick-up. I can't count the number of times I had to change in there. Also I know many women that can change their shirts revealing nothing during the process. Granted my reasons for changing in my pick-up weren't usually to go to the gym but rather to run or ride at the trail head parking lot.

Just some thoughts.

I've done this as well and with tinted windows on my van no one was any wiser. Quite often going to road races meant changing clothes usually after a race and with either no changing rooms or crowded bathrooms this was the most logical place.

And as far as the girls changing like you've described, this is true. As a HS X-country coach for many years, I've never ceased to be amazed at the ease these girls have in changing right on the bus (many untinted windows) and many times the boys were in the next or nearby seat. Yet they could do so with very little being shown. I've actually seen a boy from time to time turn his head away in embarrasment. Usually they are first timers, new to the team, and haven't seen with their eyes that very little is going to be flashed in front of them in the process. The girls are pros at this.

Thanks KFC for affirming this.

What's next? Handicaps complain about treadmills in the gym. Makes them feel uncomfortable?

so your ready to take a shower in the mens locker room with all the guys hanging out.

no, not at all and not sure at all how you'd draw this conclusion from what I said here. I think men should be in men's rooms and ladies in ladies rooms with very few exceptions.

the lady in this thread wants to change in a mens locker room. not on a bus where nothing will show. if your changing in a mens locker room that means your going to shower with the men probable.

Daniel, I think you totally missed the point of the discussion regarding changing a bus. The idea is that there are alternatives for this lady to change and that a locker room is not the only available option.

Saying that this person was automatically going to shower in the locker room is like saying that anyone who drives is going to speed. Yeah many people do it but it is by no means a cause and effect.



Daniel, in no way did KFC allude to KFC changing in the locker room or showering. This comment is uncalled for.

the lady stated that she was not comfortable changing in the ladies locker room.


the logical step is she is also not comfortable showering in the ladies locker room.


i did not imply that kfc was going to shower in the locker room. i asked based on what this thread is written about.

I'm not comfortable showering in any locker room...

Then who does the possessive pronoun 'your' refer to in...

I am ok doing it in a woman's locker room.

i was making a point and sometimes you have to make the person your talking to the object of the point.

the last time I showered in ANY locker room was in Jr High and they made us do this after gym class. I hated that. Once, somebody stole my pants....but that's another story.

I've gotten thru life somehow without showering in public locker rooms since then, I betcha I can continue to live out the rest of my life doing the same.

And I certainly wouldn't be found ever in a men's locker room. I'd take money on that one.

But there was NO logical progression from the discussion that even alluded to KFC even thinking about changing in the Men's locker room. Your premise was distasteful and potentially slanderous based upon a false presumption.