the job of the federal government

from JoeUser Forums
the federal government's job is to do three things.


1 provide education for the nation. ie pay the teachers.

2 provide for the safety of the people.

3 represent the people in international affairs.

that's it nothing more.

under education falls

nasa would fall because without research there isn't anything to teach.


under public safety falls

the military.

the federal highways. specifically the interstate which was designed and built for the rapid deployment of the military if the country should be invaded.


under representing us

1 sign trade treaties such as nafta.

2 declare war such as iraq. no matter what you call it when you authorize use of military force it is a war.

3 peace treaties.


and to pay for all of this they have a right to tax.


7,320 views 40 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
i think you would be surprised at how much teachers make. i don't feel bad for them. everybody thinks they should be making more money for what they do, the teachers union has just done a good job of making you feel sorry for teachers. i want more money and a three month vacation every year.

i would be all for paying them more if we could get around to performance based pay. i am never in favor of a tenured position where its almost impossible to get rid of some of these teachers.

anyway, i think the government should be responsible for infrastructure, defense, and police and fire. enforcing laws, but not loading us down with a bunch of laws.

we basically agree, though. the federal gov. is way too deep in our lives.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
infrastructure, defense
End of quote


federal

infrastructure
End of quote

police and fire
End of quote


state and local
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
Education is not the job of the federal government, or at least it shouldn't be. The federal government should limit itself to--
End of quote




except that the founding fathers made it the job of the federal government
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
ok your right so we should just shut down all schools.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
you know what just because i can't find it doesn't make me wrong


the federal government set aside 1 acre out of every mile for schools. this was back when the country was formed.


now you no doubt will call me a lier again well do so but i am right about this.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
"The object [of my education bill was] to bring into action that mass of talents which lies buried in poverty in every country for want of the means of development, and thus give activity to a mass of mind which in proportion to our population shall be the double or treble of what it is in most countries." --Thomas Jefferson to M. Correa de Serra, 1817. ME 15:156

"The general objects [of a bill to diffuse knowledge more generally through the mass of the people] are to provide an education adapted to the years, to the capacity, and the condition of every one, and directed to their freedom and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIV, 1782. ME 2:204

"A bill for the more general diffusion of learning... proposed to divide every county into wards of five or six miles square;... to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools, who might receive at the public expense a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects, to be completed at an University where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and completely prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:399

"This [bill] on education would [raise] the mass of the people to the high ground of moral respectability necessary to their own safety and to orderly government, and would [complete] the great object of qualifying them to secure the veritable aristoi for the trusts of government, to the exclusion of the pseudalists... I have great hope that some patriotic spirit will... call it up and make it the keystone of the arch of our government." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:400

"My partiality for that division [of every county into wards] is not founded in views of education solely, but infinitely more as the means of a better administration of our government, and the eternal preservation of its republican principles. The example of this most admirable of all human contrivances in government, is to be seen in our Eastern States; and its powerful effect in the order and economy of their internal affairs, and the momentum it gives them as a nation, is the single circumstance which distinguishes them so remarkably from every other national association." --Thomas Jefferson to Wilson C. Nicholas, 1816. ME 14:454

"The less wealthy people,... by the bill for a general education, would be qualified to understand their rights, to maintain them, and to exercise with intelligence their parts in self-government; and all this would be effected without the violation of a single natural right of any one individual citizen." --Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821. ME 1:73

WWW Link


i do believe that jefferson was around a long time before you time periods above.

and there is a difference between FREE education and MANDITORY education.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
after reading further into the above link

Mr Jefferson was against mandatory eduction.


he instead wanted to use the shame factor to get parents to send kids to school
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
there wasn't even a department of education till 1980. education used to be wrapped up in the department of health, education, and welfare.

i'm with whip, the gov. should be out of education. it should be state only. this is one of the issues that i can't agree with bush. i really think the fed. gov. should stay out of education.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Why should the federal government pay for local teachers?
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
Other than schools on military installations, name one teacher paid by the federal government.

Sorry, Daniel, but your entire premise is just plain wrong.

The job of the federal government is described pretty well in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution. The Constitution then goes on to detail the descriptions in the preamble.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
End of quote


Establish Justice: It is the federal government's role to oversea the system of courts in the US. This begins and the local level and ends at the Supreme Court. That means local and state courts adjudicate all cases, and the federal courts should only get involved in appeals, or in federal cases.

Insure Domestic Tranquility: This is done through our system of elections. Out Constitution was written in such a way that coup de tats and insurrections can't succeed in toppling our government. Every election year the people vote, those who lose their positions to elections have no way of refusing to vacate.

Common Defense: This is done with the military. Notice it doesn't say "individual defense" or "defense of each state". There is no Consitutional backing for the idea that any policeman, military member or other federal officer is responsible for defending you or me as individuals. The role of the federal government in defense is for the entire nation.

General Welfare: This is probably the most misused and abused part of the Consitution. Just like Defense isn't about individuals, there is nothing in the Constitution that says the government is responsible or the welfare of each citizen. The General Welfare is done by the departments in government. NASA, the FBI, The Department of Defense, The Department of Energy.. etc... These departments are established to fulfill needs of the nation.

Securing the Blessings of Liberty: This part tells those who work in the federal government what the basis of their job is, and should always be.


That is the job of the federal government. Until We the People are ready to put our leaders' feet to the fire to remember it, we will continue to live under the idea that their role is anything they want it to be... and/or each of us wish it was.
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
i will say it again

the federal government way back at the time of washington. gave 1 acre out of ever square mile to schools....
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
So they were all for education, yet not one of your examples shows where they considered the job of the federal government. They further emphasized that fact by not mentioning it once in the entire U.S. Constitution.

Again, outside of the military system, name one K-12 teacher who has ever been paid by the federal government.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
OK whatever


the most important thing in this country is defense.


the second is education.

without education there is no real defense. there are no new jobs.


there is no welfare.


ever war we have been in and won is because of educated people and the youth of the country. except the revaluation

and since the USA has never been defeated militarily that means all wars.


i am not including social security or Medicare/Medicaid in this because they have their own taxes set aside. yes i know it isn't enough.

and local roads and USA highways also have their own taxes.

but the interstate was designed for the rapid deployment of the military in case we are invaded. thus it is part of our defense.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
i didn't finish high school


i do have now two geds and a high school diploma


and a cert. in accounting. not that i have been able to use it.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
Of course education is important. However, the importance of it does not make it a federal government issue. Importance doesn't decide what level of government should be involved. All issues should be handled at the smallest level possible.. beginning with the individual, family/community, city, county, state, and federal government.

In other words, most important things should never even make it to the state level, much less the federal level.
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
i didn't finish high school


i do have now two geds and a high school diploma


and a cert. in accounting. not that i have been able to use it.
End of quote


I commend you for going back and finishing when you could have decided it wasn't worth it.
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

They're all the same, why do you have three? And if really you do, my point has been proven, if you're what passes as a 'graduate' (no matter HOW that diploma was earned) our entire educational system is a joke.
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no little whip you are the joke.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
OK i will rephrase this


the job of the federal government is


defense of the country.


the job of the federal government should also include eduction all the way up to graduate school.


meaning education should be free to the citizens of the united states. this would allow more people to get phds. that being said. the federal government should not pay room and board for these students.


we would recoup the expense of the cost of this education in the higher taxes earned off of their higher income through out their lives.


these are the two most important things in this country or this world in my opinion


however the only mandatory part of education should be reading riting and rithmetic
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
meaning education should be free to the citizens of the united states. this would allow more people to get phds. that being said. the federal government should not pay room and board for these students.
End of quote


I disagree on this, danielost.

I have had to work my butt off for what I have. This makes me far more appreciative for what I've received. I've seen firsthand students going to college on "daddy's money". They don't show up in class, they're lazy and unmotivated, with very few exceptions. The harder something is, it seems, the harder people work for it.

What little postsecondary education I have had has not come easily, nor should it have.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I have had to work my butt off for what I have. This makes me far more appreciative for what I've received. I've seen firsthand students going to college on "daddy's money". They don't show up in class, they're lazy and unmotivated, with very few exceptions. The harder something is, it seems, the harder people work for it.
End of quote




don't be like gene read all of it.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
the way we do it now. doctors end up being in debt their whole life trying to pay off their student loans.


there are those who will never be able to go to college if they wanted to. like me.
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
there are those who will never be able to go to college if they wanted to. like me.
End of quote


No, you could go, danielost. If I can have six kids and go back, I assure you you can go.

My point was, and is, that if the government pays for your schooling, ity removes the incentive. I agree that education is a better use of government money than welfare is, but I disagree that college should be free all the way through. Are you aware how easy it would be to remain a professional student the rest of your life? I know one individual who has been working five years on a two year degree and refuses to get a real job because he gets enough extra money for going to school to tide him over. Real life examples, danielost.

As for yourself, if you don't like the way your life is, change it. I assure you, there's more than ample opportunity for someone who is willing to work their butt off to make a change. I have spent the last year and a half working one full time job, one part time job, and carrying a full time school course load. I ran one political campaign during that time, I directed a play, and I worked with various civi groups in the community. Frankly, if I can do it, I'm sure you could manage to add 3-6 credits a semester to your load to continue working towards an education.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
My point was, and is, that if the government pays for your schooling, ity removes the incentive. I agree that education is a better use of government money than welfare is, but I disagree that college should be free all the way through. Are you aware how easy it would be to remain a professional student the rest of your life? I know one individual who has been working five years on a two year degree and refuses to get a real job because he gets enough extra money for going to school to tide him over. Real life examples, danielost.
End of quote




as has been discussed on here on many threads there will be people like this no matter what.

but you empower people by educating them and you disempower people by handing them money.

and as i have said on here they would still have to get the money for room and board while in school.

and i would probable have still been a cab driver because i was hiding and still am.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
As for yourself, if you don't like the way your life is, change it. I assure you, there's more than ample opportunity for someone who is willing to work their butt off to make a change. I have spent the last year and a half working one full time job, one part time job, and carrying a full time school course load. I ran one political campaign during that time, I directed a play, and I worked with various civi groups in the community. Frankly, if I can do it, I'm sure you could manage to add 3-6 credits a semester to your load to continue working towards an education.
End of quote



i have tried to go back to work.

and the same thing keeps stopping me

and would stop me the moment i did anything other than what i do do.

that is my dad. he wants me around 24/7 in case he wants to go buy another 5 cases of soda.
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
danielost,

I'm trying to be constructive in saying this. You are an adult. You can love your dad, and honor him, but still be your own person. If you want your life to be better, YOU'RE going to have to do it. The government won't hold your hand, and nobody can make you do it, but ultimately you need to decide what is important. If you're not happy, it is up to you to change it.

I started out with ALL the strikes against me, danielost. I got by with a lot of help from my friends, but truth be told, if anyone had an excuse to lie down and quit, I do. But I owe myself better, I owe my family better.

If you want lower taxes, if you want a government that's not bordering on a nanny state, you need to realize that you can't have the government cater to your every whim. The sad state of some of our public schools occurs BECAUSE of the governmental education monopoly, not in spite of it.