What is with the Torians?

Torians wont concede losing

from GalCiv2 Forums
Hey guys,

I'm playing Gal Civ II DL (no expansions) as a custom race, and have been attacked by the Torians without provocation. My military score was lower than theirs and they attacked me thinking I guess, that I'd be an easy mark. However, to their surprise I've defeated them in almost every engagement, some rather large fleets I might add, and also taken 7 of their worlds while losing none of mine.

It seems however when I speak to their leader he will not acknowledge that they are losing. Instead his replies are either taunts such as "It doesn't take much to make you flinch" in the early part of the war or "Have you come to discuss terms of peace?" in the current phase of our war.

I have the opponets set to tough and all of them are "Intelligent". BTW my ships are more powerful than theirs. I've developed weapons along the beam line while they've developed along the Mass drive line of research. All my ships have armor defenses while their ships also have armor defenses. They have no counter so far to my weapons and yet their military still has a higher score than mine.

Not to mention that every other race has either developed "Armor" defenses or the only other defense option they've selected (my allies btw) are the terrans (shields). Can anybody tell me why the game is acting this way?

I figured that the Torians would adapt their defenses to counter my weapons but so far they have not. We've been a peacable spacefaring society thus far until provoked by them.
8,319 views 12 replies
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
When the game calculates military strength it uses total military force, not on a ship to ship basis. Because of this,a race with a significantly lower military strength can actually be the more powerful one due to various reasons, such as the ability to put more ships into a fleet (who cares if person A has 100 more ships if they can't put them into fleets big enough to put up a fight), or having weapons that no one has defenses for. So, even though you are winning the AI might still be looking at total military strength and feel that they can get the upper hand.

If you are getting tired of taking over their planets then your best bet to try and secure peace is to either buy it, or to go after their ships. If you focus on taking out their fleet and dropping their military rating they will be much more eager to come to the table and will pay out a lot more to get you to stop.

For example, not five minutes ago I finished playing a game in which I had a massive war with the Altarins. I parked a capitol ship over each of their planets (about twenty total) and destroyed everything they built while sweeper ships took out their star bases, trade routes, and fleets. By the time they were willing to speak the military rating was over 300 for me, 0 for them. Consequently they were willing to give up five planets (including Altair), all of their techs, and all of their money (definitely worth the effort).
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It is a flaw in the AI which drives me nuts. That rating is not a very good indicator of military strength, and completely disregards military prowess. Wiping out several fleets without a loss using a first strike ability, for instance, indicates that you're punching above your weight. So too for a situation where a weaker military is focused enough to gain ground on the enemy despite having an inferior force.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Wiping out several fleets without a loss using a first strike ability, for instance, indicates that you're punching above your weight.
End of quote


I always go with first strike and work to keep ahead of everyone logistically. As a result in the game I mentioned above it ended with my military having destroyed 971 enemy ships while only losing 7 of our own. A 138:1 kill ratio definitely wins the wars. :CONGRAT:
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
In my last full Medium sized game with the Yor, I played and played. I made a total of 5 ship designs, each of them was able to destroy a lot for more than 4 months before needing a refit. My medium hull'd ships, in a fleet of 2 or 3, were taking on fleets made up of a meat shield (battleship or heavy cruiser) and some smaller ships (usually cruisers and heavy fighters). My last fleet of medium ships was lvl 30 - 34 and finally was killed in a raid on a planet with the Orbital Fleet Defense, or whatever it is called, with several battleship/dreadnaughts on it.

For Medium hulls to be able to take on even one battleship is a testament to the exploitability of the AI sometimes when it comes to defenses. The stupid Drengin didn't build high defense ships, sadly :[ It would have made for a better game hehe...

GalenEvil
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Heheh, high defence ships... Haven't traditionally had much luck with them due to opponents being contrary and all developing different weapon types, but in my current game as Thalans I built two medium ships with 3 laser attacks and 12 armour, fleeted them and stuck them on top of an unarmed military starbase as bait... they took out fourteen five-strong Super Dominator Corvette fleets in two turns and got to level 17, while my weaker but faster ships captured the Drengin's level 28 and 18 factory worlds deep in their territory. Incidentally, it's the first time I'd seen a level 28 world in Dark Avatar and I'm very excited.

But the Torians drive me mental. As allies or enemies, they're belligerent little sods and always land me in trouble - but I've never seen them develop the muscle to back it up.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They seem to be much more tactically proficient in TA... we'll see how that pans out, but they don't seem to be the ridiculous pushovers they used to be.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I love playing against the Torians when also playing as the Yor. But then again, I like the Yor super ability a lot...

I have seen a planet up to 33 i think, or something close to it. naturally it was prolly somewhere near a 28 i think. Getting ahold of one of those planets is always a good thing :D

What I do in my games usually is:
1) find someone at the start of the game that is close enough to kill quickly
2) research invasion techs through advanced troop modules
3) invade everything that the civilization has while trying to not get into other wars.

Because of those tactics I usually end my colony rush with about half the planets other civs have, and then just absorbing one of the opponents.

I am starting a new game tomorrow I think that goes along these lines, but on a higher difficulty. I want a challenge once I finish my first invasion waves. My high defense ships are crazy hard to kill off, much like Garhoud's 2 Med. Hull fleet. Also, my first hits against a civ in the early game are:
1) outlier planets
2) homeworld
with 2 being more preferable if it is not surrounded by other stronger planets.

As enemies, the Torians are just fun. Because of their super-breeder-ness you get to fight lots of sub-par ships for a long time. I got the Drengin to go after them and about half of the Torian worlds disappeared. That probably made for a longer game, since the Drengin were my only real threat. I have been playing on Tough, so I'm not sure how much more aggressive the Torians are on higher difficulties....

GalenEvil
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
They seem to be much more tactically proficient in TA... we'll see how that pans out, but they don't seem to be the ridiculous pushovers they used to be.
End of quote


You mean the AIs actually make good use of ship designs?

To me I've always thought the AI should be able to see that is losing (who cares what the graph says), and either adjust it's ship designs or seek peace. If someone tells me the AI is actually getting there I may actually go for TA. However, I don't see why DL or DA could not have had this...
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I haven't been able to tell if they're getting better at knowing when they're beaten... I've been too busy getting my ass handed to me by the Drengin and Korath (both at once, too... figures). I have noticed that the Torians are zipping around and hitting where they aren't expected, though.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have seen a planet up to 33 i think, or something close to it. naturally it was prolly somewhere near a 28 i think. Getting ahold of one of those planets is always a good thing
End of quote


in my last game, as the thalans, i had two of them near my HW, no extreme colonization required. it was sweet.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'm still trying to move up from Tough to Painful - first time I played on Painful, I got double-teamed by the Korath and the Iconians (of all people) despite an early lead, so now I'm gradually mixing in stronger AIs into Tough games: started, obviously, with the Torians since they seem to need the help. The little buggers started in the far corner (large galaxy, tight clusters, so they have a couple of systems to themselves but aren't completely isolated). Since the Korath and Drengin don't like engine techs, the Torians have made a great show of hurling abuse and generally winding them up, safe in the knowledge that any ships sent their way will be intercepted by my Thalans or the Arceans first, while they research up the larger hull sizes. Maybe they're not so dumb. Korath, on the other hand, seem to have forgotten about their spore ships entirely (this is kind of on topic, since they're not taking advantage of their real advantage over me, but are just massing gunships that I'll out-maneuver, and will probably capture their homeworld in the next couple of turns. Who needs spore tech when you have Tir-Quan ninja insects?)

Meanwhile, it seems the Drengin took the +2 speed bonus, which means all those all-gun ships they build are able to catch my ships if I don't keep them moving every turn, so think my new level 28 world will be churning out a lot more of the uber-defenders. Can't wait to try this out on large hulls...