"Christians Aren't Perfect, Just Forgiven" is a COP OUT!!!

I heard it said before, and I put it in my own blog, but it bears repeating.

If you, as a Christian, are not seeing major life change from before you were a Christian, if you are maintaining a pattern of sin in your life, you don't believe in God.

If you, as a Christian, are not seeing major life change from before you were a Christian, if you are maintaining a pattern of sin in your life, you don't believe in God.

If a sinner were drawn by the Father to the Son, having been translated out of the kingdom of darkness, into the light of God's dear son, only to be cast away like chaff into the furnace because one were percieved to have not been family by the fact of one's inability to be as perfect as men who imagine themselves to be lesser sinners. Surely such men who teach these things are worse sinners still to make fun of the grace of God, which can take a broken life and slowly in the time that is appointed by the hand of God to restore, to rebuild what cannot be done in any of the Scientific laboratories of the world. If God has justified who are you to disagree with God?

Ye err not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of GOD.


Love,
.A.

Remaining in a pattern of sin is a deliberate separating yourself from God as our Ultimate End. Apoc. 1:11. So, yes, Jythier you've pretty much nailed it. Remaining in a pattern of sin also shows that you don't don't love Him....for Christ said, if you love me, keep My commandments.

When someone sins, they consciously and freely transgress the law of God, an express opposition to and a contempt of the DIvine Will.

Sin is the greatest of evils becasue it deprives God of the honor due Him and hinders man's attainment of his eternal destiny.

What many people seem to not know (or forget) is Repentance doesn't mean "to ask forgiveness" or even to "forgive", repentance means "a change of heart". While it's true that Christ will forgive the sins of those who accept His atonement, that forgiveness comes with "repentance", not just expecting Him to do it.

THANK YOU, Para!

Aeryck's condemned me to Hell for not believing that Christians can live any way they want to...lol! I guess "judge not, lest ye be judged" doesn't apply either.

According to Aeryck, God must be a monumental fool, writing all of those words and having them mean nothing when he simply could have written out a 3 page tract and saved a lot of scribes a BOATLOAD of time!

The fact is, we aren't perfect, we are just forgiven. But using that as an ideology to allow yourself to live deliberately against God is demeaning to the rest of us who made a mistake and need to remember that we really aren't perfect, we are just forgiven, and making mistakes is okay, as long as there is repentance.

True, jythier. Bumper sticker theology, though, should never substitute for the real thing.

Here's the question, though: Are you comfortable enough with that answer to give it when you stand before God on judgment? Do you really think He's gonna be keen on: Hey, I was waiting on your son to bail me out? Or do you think He wants to see genuine effort on our part, even though we have failings?

I know I'm not in a very good place right now if God decided to take me. I would have a lot of explaining to do, and I'm pretty sure sidestepping the question wouldn't be an option at that point.

making mistakes is okay, as long as there is repentance.

True enough as long as you don't repeat the mistakes...if your attitude is such that it is okay to make this mistake now and repent later...well...that ain't the way it works.

I would have a lot of explaining to do

I think instead that you will have a lot of explaining given to you.

Well said.

There certainly is a process that one goes through from, as Jythier says, "maintaining a pattern of sin" to your saying here, a "change of heart".

First, there is no sin hidden from Almighty and All-Merciful God. He will forgive any and all sin as long as we cooperate with His grace.

There are mental, heartfelt steps that we must go through to reeive forgiveness. First, recognize our sins....examine the offense against God's commandments. Once, that's done, we must have contrition or sorrow, a hatred of sin and a true grief of having committed them and offended God....with a firm purpose of sinning no more.

Re: our sorrow for our sins: God who sees into our hearts and knows the state of our souls blackened by the stain of sin, knows if we are truly sorry, repentant, or if we are only pretending that the sorrow is not interior, only exterior.

We must be sorry for our sins on account of knowing it's displeasing to to God or as Catholics believe, because we have fear the loss of Heaven by it. If we are sorry for our sin only becasue of some natural motive, then our sorrow is not the right kind for God's forgiveness. If a man is sorry for stealing, committing adultery only becasue he got caught and had to go to prison or lost his wife for it, then his sorrow would only be natural...not "supernatural" sorrow. If we are sorry for having offended God on account of His own Infinite Goodness, our contrition or sorrow is said to be perfect.

We must have true sorrow becasue these are sins against God --things forbidden by Him and worthy of His punishment.

Another thing that is bumper sticker statement forgets is, when we sin it isn't always just Christ we hurt. If our sin costs or hurts someone else, then we must do what we can to make restitution to them. Sometimes that is just a matter of sincere apology and seeking their forgiveness, but could also mean paying them back or doing something to "make it up to them" as best we can.

I'm not sure if the words "just" and "forgiven" should be put together..

Oh, ya, so true. And this can be a really tough one to live out. Think of the Lord's Prayer. "..and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."

"I'm not sure if the words "just" and "forgiven" should be put together.. "

Good point.

I think this saying is more directed to those who call Christians un-Christian or hypocrites when they slip.  We aren't perfect and we do make mistakes.  I know I fall short all the time but that shouldn't be a judgement on Christianity, that is about me. 

Jesus,

Please do not patronize my blog again. I deleted your response because I frankly don't want to converse with you.

I think this saying is more directed to those who call Christians un-Christian or hypocrites when they slip.

No, Loca, the fact is, it is usually directed by people who make a habit out of constantly hurting other people and lying to/about them that have no conscience about it whatsoever.

The fact is, while Christians do slip from time to time, MOST "Christians" seem content to stay in their slipped state using stupid sayings like this to rationalize the fact that they will not even TRY to be more Christlike.

I wanted to see what lil' Jesus said.

But they SHOULD expect to try and to somehow evidence SOME change in their life!

Gid,

For by grace (God's) are ye saved (past tense) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10)

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(Tit 2:14)

If the changes were left entirely up to us to do, all on our own steam, then we might as well delete these passages from the Bible.

Good trees bare good fruit, but they do not grow over night. The Father prunes them and it takes longer for some than others, it really depends on the depths of degredation and depravity a soul has sunk to before the prodigal son, turns back to His Father.

.A.

Have I said any different Aryck? No, I have not. Yet you've branded me a heretic and condemned me to Hell, something that is not your place to do.

Yes, Christians will mess up, Aeryck. We don't disagree there, and that was not my point. However, when they excuse their mistakes with bumper sticker theology, when they do not even TRY to be more conformed to the image of Christ, what does it say about their faith?

The Bible calls for a living faith, not a dead faith, Aeryck. Why are we called to go and make disciples? Why are we called to witness? Because there are things that we were meant to do as faithful Christians. Do we HAVE to do them? Not at all. But I have a hard time believing someone truly loves God when they don't even WANT to do His will

SC,

It was nothing, just an ad hominem attack like you'd expect from our illegal alien cabbie!

Terrific explaination of how it should be to be a Christian Gid, eye opening for me anyhow.

Truly do as I did {Jesus talking} not what you think I did.

But if you delete them all, I won't be able to laugh at his expense!

Yes, I understand. This is still largely problematic because you are emphasizing the old system of religion and not the life of the Spirit and the new creation. You make it very black and white, very monotone, when in point of fact the entire work of salvation is credited not to our response but to the completed work of Christ.

You accuse me of judging you, yet you are the one who has set yourself up as the judge. It is this outspoken condemnation of those who are justified by God, who might not be living the way that you believe is right, but who are still within the boundaries of His love and mercy, that brought me to object to your hard words.

Do you not know that even those who have lived so shamefully will appear before the seat of Christ for rewards and though they may not have measured up to your standard they stand or fall because of the only righteous judge, who judges justly, because He knew no sin, but ours. Don't you know that these same one's who you are firing salvos for find grace and forgiveness by which they eventually change and are granted rewards, some though who even do not co-operate know grace because Scripture clearly states that they will have their straw works burned up and their souls will not be damned but their souls will be saved. Knowing this, you aught to not launch out so heavily upon Christians who fail here, for it is the Lord who has justified them (as if they never sinned), it is He who sanctifies them, it is he who glorifies them.

My only objection has been the way you have placed the law over the heads of Christians as if there were some solution offered in the law, when the law has taught us of a better way, a way of the life in the Spirit. This grace is for believers and it does mean that we need to back off and not get so worked up about the failures we see.

When Jimmy Swaggart fell so hard, it was very embarrassing for those who emphasize their part as most important. They did not look carefully at the ways that God works in each persons life. So many of us fail to see that God sometimes has to let a man fall, to wrest out of his heart, or her heart things that we looking from the outside judge in fury but later on when they are restored by Christ, lose the blessing that He has put on thier lives. All I am saying to you is that you have raised the law (love God and love thy neighbour) and forgotten that the purpose of the law is in fact to cause sin to increase and missed the matter of the grace abounding.

Paul in Romans 2:1 is most clear about us not doing this, for we are not less sinful than they are. Those who do not live right. If they fail it is before them and not before us that this failure should be judged. We cannot judge, if we do then we are at war with God. This is why I am at war with you. You have launched out with the law, but are you perfect that you fully keep the law. No.

Brother Gid, you will have learn to understand that it is mercy that truimphs over judgment.

You took my vulnerabilities and apologies and you turned on me, this is something that Christians should not do to each other, and to do it so publically is what I also find saddening. You do not yet know me and yet you presume to know me, I would be most happy if you were lest down on me all the time and actually took the time to consider why I have made a strong case against you for teaching what the Pharisees taught and not the life of the Spirit. It is not something you can learn over night, but to chasten weak believers is to chasten Christ publically. I object to your judgments and am not going to discuss this with you again. I hope you will come to you senses and leave this well alone.

Sincerely,
.A.

Since I DON'T teach what the Pharisees taught, aeryk, you have no case.

Do you even see the irony of your post? You have judged me wholly and thoroughly, yet you ask me not to judge you. You have judged others as well. You claim (and rightly so) that God is a God of grace, yet you claim that grace does not extend to those who believe differently.

I WANT to have a reasonable conversation with you, Aeryck, but as long as you've condemned me before I walk in the door, I don't see how that's possible!

Gid, you may say you don't but you have raised the law over others, you should only raise the cross, as Moses raised the serpent in the desert. (John 3)

.A.

Oh Gid,
You are playing now. You smashed down the door of trust when you took my apology and went public. There is where you have crushed my trust.



Of course, God's grace does not extend to ALL men. Some men will not come to Christ EVER. They are what the Bible calls 'reprobate'. They seek justification through their own merit as Cain did who slew his own brother.



Your admission is good enough for me. I am ready to lay down my sword.

.A.