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Comparison of the lore with the game

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Comparison of the lore with the game

from Sins Forums
As requested in the gameplay feedback thread, here is my take on the lore and what it says, contra what is in the game. I bring it in a separate post because it would clutter up the gameplay feedback thread with something that isn't really that much gameplay feedback, now that Yarlen has confirmed that there will not be any major changes there. I might have to edit for format as the forum refuses previews for some reason.

10000 years ago
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The Vasari Empire ruled over countless worlds. Relentless and unstoppable, the Dark Fleet sought to eclipse ever more until a cataclysmic error brought it all to an abrupt end. With their worlds destroyed and their species all but wiped out, the survivors began a desperate race to outrun their past.
End of quote

Okay, this tells me that Vasari are nomad aliens, few in number. The few in number fits well enough with their increased support point costs, good. But there are only a few weak traces of nomadism.

They have a ship called Evacuator, okay. But it doesn't really evacuate anything, it functions as its TEC equivalent ship, so the only nomadism involved is the name.

The special capital ship weapon sucking planetary resources shows that they do not care particularly about the worlds they come to, good. However, that special weapon does not actually affect the planetary resources as far as I can see, it merely reduces the health of the current colony. It should probably reduce the capabilities of the planet permanently.

In general, a further focus on mobility would be good. The phase gates could be a step in the right direction, but convey an idea of the hive (fair enough, being insects), and defending their holdings. As nomads, they should be more concerned with getting to new places quickly, not where they have been before. In fact, the space gates are completely at odds with the lore, because it would enable their nemesis to gain whatever head start they had, even quicker getting to all the worlds they now stay at. However, for the sake of keeping something that makes the Vasari unique, let's say that the nemesis has no way of detecting where the phase gates commune with and the Vasari can shut them down remotely at a moment's notice.

1000 years ago
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During the formation of the Trade Order, emissaries found a single world orbiting a giant red star on the periphery of what was to become Trader Space. The people of that desert planet were eventually found to be practicing the utmost in scientific and social deviancy; ancient taboos long since assumed to be law. Shocked and disgusted, the Trader Worlds conspired to have their forgotten brethren exiled far outside the territory they were claiming as their own.
End of quote

This is obviously only my take on what the lore says, since we haven't seen them yet. The Advent break with/exile from the rest of humanity. They are 1000 years distant from TEC in evolution, meaning very similar appearance. They are also 1000 years distant in scientific progress, which could make it way different, but similar brain function would make it likely they have many similarities, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a completely different technology. Their social views are highly at odds with those of the TEC. The lore does not say what exactly these different social views may be, but they would have to be completely different in order to provoke a permanent exile. I would expect the technology and special abilities of the Advent to be in tune with this.

10 years ago
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The Trader Worlds prospered in an era of lucrative trade and relative peace. Stories of their ancestor's wars had long since passed into the depths of the oldest archives; the methods and machines by which they conducted those affairs long since buried. Consequently, when the Vasari Exodus Fleet arrived, the outlying Trader Worlds paid dearly.

In a battle for survival, the Traders find a new impetus to rediscover the ways of their savage past.
End of quote

The TEC have focused on peaceful economy for nearly 1000 years, and need to scramble to transform their society and technology focus to gain back the huge advantage of the Vasari that is implied. They manage to do this. In fact, they manage to do so in a mere 10 years, as can clearly be seen by the performance of the early ships available to each race: they deal almost the same damage. The Vasari is merely a bit sturdier built. This rate of change is... quite unrealistic... and is one of my major disappointments of beta4.

Incidentally, the Vasari have got an entirely equal footing in economy matters during the 10 years. They accumulate wealth and resources at exactly the same rates as TEC, even though they have an entirely different social structure based on unwilling slave labour. Perhaps you can get away with saying that their superior technology in general offsets the unwillingness of their subjects, but then again TEC is the faction who has focused on economy matters lately, the nomad Vasari with their abundant slaves would hardly be as interested in this technology or have the mindset needed for efficient use of the resources.

The TEC have never met the Vasari before, or they would have known there was a terrible exodus coming. Therefore the two races should not be alike, at all. It is mind-boggling that after 10 years of contact, both races only have access to the scout and generic frigate at the start of the game (in addition to the capital ships), and THEN only start to develop differing technology.

Now
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The Exiled have returned; a transformed people calling themselves "The Advent". With a vast fleet of advanced warships and mysterious weapons, they bring a growing number of worlds under their control. The already struggling Trader Emergency Coalition finds itself caught in a two-front war that appears utterly hopeless.

The fate of the galaxy is at hand and one must rise to face the Sins of a Solar Empire.
End of quote

Oh, the Advent are transformed? It doesn't say how, so that leaves it suitably open for anything. Anything except something very similar to the TEC, that is. Which is what I expect, given the Vasari in Beta4.

===========

The ancient Vasari Empire once ruled over countless worlds. Beginning at the galactic core, the empire expanded uniformly, brought hundreds of alien races under its control, and showed no signs of slowing down.
End of quote

Okay.

Most species encountered were young enough to be subjugated peacefully, although, some resisted and were harshly enslaved. Those who had expanded into space were quickly exterminated. Once conquered, most species were integrated into the Vasari social structure as "valued citizens". The Vasari locked each planet down and ruled from vast orbital structures, finding a minimal surface presence more effective for both production and the minimization of rebellion.
End of quote

Vast orbital structures to control the planets? Moving from world to world during this exodus, I'd presume (like Perimeter's megacities)? Cool! But where are these in the game? The Vasari function exactly like the TEC, colonizing planets that they have bombed into radioactive hulks. There is no mobility of their populace.

When the first of the inner planets fell, analysts initially assumed that the local species had somehow managed to rebel. They immediately requested a wing of the Dark Fleet to restore order but no status reports were ever received. Instead, three more planets dropped from the communications grid. The probability of multiple, simultaneous, and successful rebellions was exceptionally remote. Internal Intelligence concluded that a renegade force from within the Vasari engineered a revolt. As deliberations proceeded on how best to deal with the traitorous acts, another series of planets were lost, including their world of origin. The unknown enemy’s rate of expansion far exceeded even that of the entire Dark Fleet. As a last resort, the Dark Fleet Veerr brought the bulk of their forces back from the expansionary frontier and massed for a blind assault on whatever was eating its way out from the central worlds.
End of quote

Okay, nemesis is currently invincible.

The inhabitants of a perimeter planet were surprised when a single warship of the Dark Fleet appeared out of Phase Space bearing signs of heavy damage. Their curiosity and confusion quickly gave way to fear when they boarded the ship and found the crew apparently mad with terror.

In a rare act of autonomy, the colony decided it would be best to take precautions and temporarily evacuate to a system far from the Empire.

The refugees waited for signs of a safe return but instead, the signal from their warning beacons ceased. The lifetimes of the warning beacons were used to estimate the speed of the threat. It would not be long before their current position would be compromised. Additional beacons were placed at their current location and the group moved on to a considerably further destination.
End of quote

Okay.

Settling for a time, the refugees started to build colonies, construct new ships, and extract resources. Ultimately, their goal was to uncover the nature of the threat, to research technologies that might aid in its destruction, and to restore the rule of the Empire.
End of quote

Maybe this is where they discarded their huge orbital structures for control.

For the next ten thousand years this pattern would repeat - the growing Vasari Exodus Fleet only ever a generation ahead of the relentless, unknown enemy.
End of quote

No wait, they've got this huge fleet that departs from its current world with their people, growing over 10000 years. Scratch that idea.

When the Vasari arrived in Trader Space ten years ago, they were confident in their ability to quickly deal with the locals. Initially, the victories were painless – the scouts alone procured the initial settlements – but as time went on it became clear that the local space-faring species would not be so easy to eliminate.

Now, the Vasari are caught in a stalemate, and in some positions, on the verge of being pushed back. A state of panic ensues. Already too entrenched in this disastrous war, the Vasari are simply unable to withdraw without catastrophic losses. Even worse, the conflict is consuming resources faster than can be put into the reserve. They will not be able to fuel the next phase of their exodus and time is running out.
End of quote

To repeat. In... ten years... the TEC have turned complete lack of military fleet and technology (Vasari scouts dominated it) into something rivalling the fleet and technology of the mighty exodus that has grown over 10000 years, constantly battling and requiring to perfect their military technology. Did I mention the Vasari fleet was huge?

The TEC lore (which I don't care to take to details) even says they didn't function for years, with disastrous lack of cohesion, and slowly learned to apply their perfection of the economic engine into the war machine. A couple of years is not a slow transformation. It's a miraculous transformation.

===========
So, how to fix this? Make it plausible that the TEC and Vasari have similar advancement at this point. Prolonged peace and trade could do that of course, but that would clash with the nomadism and urgency the Vasari now have due to the nemesis at their heels. Make up another story that does not involve the Vasari popping up in TEC space, from nowhere, only 10 years ago. Perhaps a secretive intermediary race, that have refused to divulge where it gets its technology from when passing it along so that TEC didn't know about the Vasari, or some such nonsense.

Well, I'm done. I see I write less and less on each point as I grow tired of it. Go ahead and rip it to pieces.
16,683 views 73 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
ok, the fact that the TEC "have no central organization" has been a granted since the game was first initialized, that has always been there.

as for the vasari? I admit they are a little similar to humans, but do you really think trade would never happen? no, thats practically a universal anthropological given. resources are never all in the places they need to be, as a result trade develops. so saying that trade "would not exist" in any extended culture is utter crap (pardon my french)

And I would think that if I were the Vasari on the run from an unknown enemy, I would likely apply a "scorched earth" policy and destroy everything prior to departure to keep their predator from utilizing any of the resources that could have been left behind.
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that makes me think, maybe the earth-sucker should reduce income for a planet permentantly, rather than being temporary and causing extreme damage...

huh, just a thought

again though, keep in mind that the Vasari HAVE to use planets, thats part of their given lore, they settle and pick up what they need before lifting themselves up by the bootstraps and moving on. saying "they shouldnt use planets" is a rather massive extreme that was never mentioned, and certainly cannot be the basis for a "they are space nomads, they use only ships" argument.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe we haven't seen all of the lore yet? All we are going by now is a BRIEF background writeup on a web page. There may be some things we haven't seen yet that will explain this whole situation much better.

I'm not trying to be rude, but this whole mess of topics about the Vasari not being uber, and not living up to the lore is getting very old, and beaten to death. The dev's are well aware of what people think about them.
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Thank you! You understand it well

Here's the punchline of the whole thing: The Vasari are different from how most of us expected them to be (myself included). But different doesn't mean 'worse'. Do I think it might have been done differently? Of course! Do I think that the way I read into the lore is the way it 'should' be? Nope!

I'm not interested in taking the side that's arguing from the perspective of what little bits of their history we have. I'm also not interested in taking the side that this is the best way to implement them.

The side I am taking is this: Whatever our expectations were, this is what we have. Instead of kicking and screaming how that's not what we wanted/expected/thought we should get, why not instead focus all that energy into making what we were given into the best it can be? We've been told the core gameplay isn't changing. We've also been told that they're open to tweaking with balance of ship-to-ship power and the tech tree. Instead of beating the 'core' aspect of gameplay to death (see trade ships, culture centers, colonizing planets), why not focus all that energy to make sure when the game launches the ships and technologies make the two races as unique as they can be?
WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
Schod, you're applying your limited knowledge of our own species approach to things. The Vasari appear to me to be a race that subjugates others and uses them as slave labor.

They would not be trading with the TEC or the Advent, they would be enslaving them. Perhaps replace trade ships with slave ships that help boost productivity or increase mining resources, etc.
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
I'm just saying, if people are so angry with how defensive I get, they really should not be throwing stones.

Oh my god there you go swearing and saying we are attacking people....

and how is that? all I'VE said was that the name should be changed, as of current its like throwing sand in someone's eyes.
I havent once sweared with respect to any party present.

I'm not going to even bother quoting the rest of your post as its obviously a GROSS overreaction to a small comment I made about its name.

as for the lore? I grant that its definately vague and definately up to interpretation. thats fine, for that fact I like that about it (and even some of bovi's interpretation). what I find irritating is that people take their own interpretations as law and then proceed to attack the game when the two arent compatable.
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Look in the internet/textual mirro. You're the one taking YOU'RE opinion as law, and you're the one making Gross over reactions. No one has once said 'This Game Sucks' because of the Vasari lore-to game-ratio.

People saying they are disappointed (which i haven't said for myself) is just an expression of their emotion, its not saying they are mad, or that the game is awful, or that the devs are insane, or any some such non-sense you've been inventing. If your friend comes to you and say, yeah this birthday gift was disappointing but its the thought that counts, and he is sincere... what do you do Schod? Berate him while telling him that he is berating the gift-giver?

I re-iterate, Yarlen told YOU to be less insulting to people in the other thread... not Everyone else. Thats because no one has been insulting the devs. The only insults have been from you, and then eventually a few go back at you.

I wonder why...
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Oh Real quick-

I have to say I never said Ships only or they don't use planets, just that they shouldn't have their entire population on planets. And I'm not really judging anyone by saying so. I unlike you, don't tell people that they are wrong and I am write, just that I have a different opinion. I think me and anatar were having an intelligent discussion until you came in here screaming bloody murder.

But yeah, I agree with you- they would totally trade since they have been there for 10 years... its not like all the zinc they ever needed was evenly spread out exactly where they want it at all times or something.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
They would not be trading with the TEC or the Advent, they would be enslaving them. Perhaps replace trade ships with slave ships that help boost productivity or increase mining resources, etc.
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if they are allying with the advent and/or TEC (which we are assuming is rare) then why not trade with them? as for my "limited knowledge of our own species" let me point out to you that its not just our species that trades, there are even cases of INTER species trade in this world

its simply a survival imperative, if I need something and I cannot provide for it, I must get it FROM SOMEONE ELSE. this is a must in every form of social collection, regardless of species.
People saying they are disappointed (which i haven't said for myself) is just an expression of their emotion
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so they are dissipointed that the game... rocks?
gaunt people are making these broad sweeping statements left and right, with little to no experience of the vasari. god I have little experience with them, I just happened to catch on immediately to what they were supposed to do, luck, intelligence I dont give a damn what you call it.
its not saying they are mad, or that the game is awful, or that the devs are insane, or any some such non-sense you've been inventing
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if it was just that I wouldnt have had any sort of reaction "oh, sad, the vasari arent what I wanted". thats not what people have been saying, what they've been saying is "the vasari do NOT fit what the lore says blah blah blah they should be changed to this blah blah blah blah"
I re-iterate, Yarlen told YOU to be less insulting to people in the other thread
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WHERE was I insulting? not even blatantly, I was critiquing veiled hostility, saying that it should be changed for the sake of neutrality and I get your vile rebuke.
If your friend comes to you and say, yeah this birthday gift was disappointing but its the thought that counts, and he is sincere... what do you do Schod? Berate him while telling him that he is berating the gift-giver?
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I dont know about you, but people I classify as friends care enough about what I feel not to tell me that I fucked up. my friends take gifts graciously and say "thanks" because they care what I think and feel
I back up the devs because they are dead on, and are getting no positive feedback. all I've tried to accomplish in all of this is to blunt some of the rediculous sieges people have launched against what is obviously a brilliant game mechanic.
Thats because no one has been insulting the devs. The only insults have been from you, and then eventually a few go back at you.
End of quote

I ask you now, not because I want to triumph or feel good about myself or insult you, that you look back upon my post and ask yourself "was he trying to be insulting"
the response should be quite obvious, if it isnt go for a run and cool down.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
I think Annatar nailed it right there. We all expected one thing, and and this is what we got. Lets make the best of it. There are still things that can be done to the Vasari to make them more unique without changing the core gameplay. Which the dev's have said is set in stone.
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
the only reason I'm not going to satirically point out that this has been what I have been saying all along, is because if I did someone here would engage in a lengthy, pointless attack on my moral fiber for being "an unabideable asshat".

alas, its what I have been saying all along.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
uhm Schod, in the friend example, I meant they were confiding in you about someone else. Not about you to you. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but yes that would be a bit rude.

I don't think you are trying to be insulting, I think it must come naturally to you    If you were trying I imagine you'd get banned, along with anyone else trying to be insulting.

Veiled hostility, is allot less likely to be what you think it is, tone is hard to read on the internet, how are you so positive? point it out to me, and I can interpret it much differently, your constant assumption that You are right, and that others are wrong, is in and of itself more insulting than us discussing lore under the title of 'Comparison of the lore and the game'

what more politically correct title could it possibly have?

NOW the LordKosc title for his mod thread... that is presumptious and provacative.

And yeah I didn't say the Vasari were bad/worse off in game, compared to lore... most of my ideas would make them a little harder to play most likely, in fact.... I dont think anyone has said the Vasari are un-fun or bad in this particular thread Major Stress.




Back on top a little bit- I tried out the auto-salvage tech, and that is a wonderful one... if the Vasari could have that be a level 1 tech without the largely unimportant salvage tech requirement, it would be a godsend. It could make them earn allot fo resources if they win a battle or two early on.

The tech gives you money for destroying enemy structures and capital ships. Fits very nicely with their lore, they would be terrific recyclers...The other tech just makes their own salvage rate better, but honestly... salvaging is a rare and unfortunate thing... they should just get this particular ability/bonus as a addon with the other above mentioned tech.

Oh and the self regen tech is also very good, and makes perfect sense...
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
alas, its what I have been saying all along.
End of quote


Yes, but few people were listening to the message itself As is the case now..

People just need to stop beating a dead horse about things we know for a fact are not changing and focus on what we know can be changed, and work with that instead

But so far, a huge chunk of suggestions concerning the Vasari (as Yarlen pointed out) have not been about technology tree balancing or power/cost balancing but essentially core gameplay changes.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
uhm Schod, in the friend example, I meant they were confiding in you about someone else. Not about you to you. That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but yes that would be a bit rude.
End of quote

the point remains, my friends generally keep anything to themselves that they know could injure a friend. the only reason I'm not like that here is because I dont see this as a social environment. at least not as a serious one. yes I'm roudy and insulting. But I do realize when I go too far, then I start to back off, but that doesnt mean you should grow to read hostility into my posts.
Veiled hostility, is allot less likely to be what you think it is, tone is hard to read on the internet
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even more simply, this was a difference of perception sets. I saw hostility in views opposing me, I of course was slightly insulting back, then I get berated, so I respond more outrageously

it develops from there
what more politically correct title could it possibly have?
End of quote

in a vacuum I would agree with you, but it was a fly in the face of decency given the current situation.
Back on top a little bit- I tried out the auto-salvage tech, and that is a wonderful one... if the Vasari could have that be a level 1 tech without the largely unimportant salvage tech requirement, it would be a godsend. It could make them earn allot fo resources if they win a battle or two early on.
End of quote

its one of those techs that you just have to laugh at, its simply so dead on for the Vaz.
I would like to see it dropped a couple ranks to, maybe have a couple other techs like it.
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
True, he's probably not trying to be insulting. I don't have to either, it just comes naturally.

Another point that is frequently being bored to death. Planetary bombing, ooh they must be bigger than nukes, look at them explosions!!! Ooh, look at the fighters! They're only like 400 miles long... The light frigates are bigger than texas. Ok, so the explosions look really big, but so does everything else so maybe we should take a chill pill on the whole extermination thing? If that's not enough, see tech tree. High yield warheads, heavy fallout. Heavy fallout reduces population growth, a sure sign that you royally screwed up the planet while you were bombing the shit out of it. High yield doesn't say either way, it just means bigger boom boom. Maybe they fire conventional weaponry, city blocks are easy to blow up already, we could wipe out entire cities no problem inside a hundred years, without nukes, radiation, any lasting effects. Hell, if you're still stuck on the graphics, those bombs are too big to be nukes. If they were nuclear instead of conventional weaponry, there wouldn't be a planet left, the resulting explosion from a nuke a few hundred miles across would vaporize most of it and send the surviving pieces off in a very fine mist arcing out from the explosion point. It would also wipe out the attacking fleet, but no biggy.

The explanation given is that colony ships carry administration, not that they don't harm the population, but that they don't replace it, they rule it. The population doesn't start maxed out when you recolonize a place, it starts off low and slowly rebuilds. The same is true for the infrastructure, they haven't razed it anymore than they've razed the population, just crushed resistance and recolonized. It rebuilds a little fast, but you don't really think you're fighting a galactic war in the space of a few hours do you? Time is relative, just as size is relative, perfect scale would, in both cases, be unplayable and boring. That you just set it to zero to blow the place to start with is a nicety, something rather good to have. Setting arbitrary values where the place flips out of your control would be more of a pain in the ass than the inconvenient mismatch we have now where zero isn't really zero.

Why would TEC bomb the shit out of their own population to retake a planet? They've got a bit of a problem there, but you don't actually need to either. You could just wipe out the orbital infrastructure and culture flip them all.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
The face of decency? You are taking the forum way way too seriously man.


Salvage Tech:

It really is an enjoyable one, killing a cap gave me half the resources to make myself one!

It needs to be level 1, that way we can snag it and with SKILL be able to take advantage and have an economic boost to help cope with the early game blues.

Also as Protossy as this may be... I think a shield restore defense system would fit in incredibly well for the Vasari... considering they don't rely on hulls oh so much, it would make sense... energy is allot more portable and efficient than Mass afterall.

A few Aura units could be nifty for them, perhaps a shield restore for the Over Seer? Give it a long enough range for them not to go suiciding in battle too.

I would also like to see the Jarasul have an ability whereby it increases the overall economy of a world... kind of like a reverse embargo. Fits its concept as a great big 'mother ship'
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
Psychoak,

you aren't arguing with my points are you? Because you just made all of them again.

My point with the graphics is they don't = extermination. Which Annatar is insisting the Vasari are doing. Notably since I have no idea what those green explosions are they made indeed be nano-clouds that seek out important unwanted people and eat them.

Or they put food coloring in their radiation bombs lol
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
The face of decency? You are taking the forum way way too seriously man
End of quote

and I could just as easily use the same argument to say "stuff it" to anyone who tells me to stuff it

that is to say, I cant use it, because its wrong
It really is an enjoyable one, killing a cap gave me half the resources to make myself one!
End of quote

and its PERFECT for raids
Hell, if you're still stuck on the graphics, those bombs are too big to be nukes. If they were nuclear instead of conventional weaponry, there wouldn't be a planet left, the resulting explosion from a nuke a few hundred miles across would vaporize most of it and send the surviving pieces off in a very fine mist arcing out from the explosion point. It would also wipe out the attacking fleet, but no biggy.
End of quote

Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top

So why on earth would they waste material on planets they will end up leaving.
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Long term loss for a short term gain? AKA things are pretty much equal, no use saving up for the long term if it gets your butts kicked in the short?

The lore never states that they can't leave until the TEC is defeated,
End of quote


Actually, it does. Re-read the part about "catastrophic losses"
I also want to point out that the load screen in Beta4 for the Vasari mentions that the TEC have "No central orginization or military technology"
End of quote


Should have read "had" -- the entire point of being Trader Emergency Coalition is to have the central organization and military!
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
energy is allot more portable and efficient than Mass afterall.
End of quote


Actually, energy and mass are the same thing.
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
*hisses at ron* interrupting my editing process



because everyone has been so hung up on being politically correct, I wanted to reword this part
and I could just as easily use the same argument to say "stuff it" to anyone who tells me to stuff it

that is to say, I cant use it, because its wrong
End of quote

what I meant to say was that: if the boards were to be taken so laxidasically, I would never have gotten to this level of infamy and been witchhunted so widely.
Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
energy is allot more portable and efficient than Mass afterall.


Actually, energy and mass are the same thing.
End of quote


rather, you mean mass is more portable and efficient than energy, as holding onto an equal ammount of energy requires a MUCH greater amount of mass for the same effect
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
True. But different forms are Different Ron.

Energy as in lets say Electrical- is far more portable....

Batteries equating to say 100 tons of coal, are not taking up 100 tons of Mass or Space. Plus its a game- vasari like shields, so wouldn't they invest in a way to keep them up>?

- The Vasari CAN leave... they will just take Catastrophic losses. I just mean this Literally. Not that leaving is a good idea (yet) for the Vasari, just that they have every reason to be constantly prepared to do so.

If the Vasari waste everything in the short term, they are dead anyways. That is the horrible predicament they face.

Which is why they should Really try to ally with the Tech against the Advent in exchange for the resources they need to get the hell outta there. Before the boogey man gets them that is.
Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
I think the idea is that they have such a dramatic mental shift towards dominance and supremacy that being humble is an entirely impossible prospect for them.
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
Oh here it goes, here it goes, here it goes again...
Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top
grandgnu, say hello to one of my greatest admirers!
I think the idea is that they have such a dramatic mental shift towards dominance and supremacy that being humble is an entirely impossible prospect for them.
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I just remembered, the Vasari CAN ally with some factions of the advent/TEC, but there are so many factions that peace cannot be assured.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Lore is after all just creative writing, it should not necessarily influence the game, nor should it interfere with balance.

Plus, the devs have stated what they intended the Vasari to truely be, and as such it should be how the Lore is viewed. After all, all we can do is interpret, whether or not we interpret correctly is another question.
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top

- The Vasari CAN leave... they will just take Catastrophic losses. I just mean this Literally. Not that leaving is a good idea (yet) for the Vasari, just that they have every reason to be constantly prepared to do so.
End of quote


Catastrophic losses are not good. While it is unclear, to me that read out as being unacceptable, or untenable, or intolerable losses. In my mind, its talking about losses severe enough to prevent them from continuing to run -- i. e. the extinction, short or long term, of their race. Perhaps via an insufficient gene pool?