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Consolidated Vasari Opinion Thread

Consolidated Vasari Opinion Thread

Okay, hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a mess. It's pretty obvious everyone has an opinion on how the Vasari are, how they want them to be, and what they want to see changed.

Right now, these opinions are scattered in a bunch of threads all over the forum. We know the devs try to keep up on all the reads, but why not make it easier for them?

Here's what I propose:

Everyone sit down, and come up with a way to summarize your opinion on the Vasari. What you like, what you don't, if you have any suggestions, whatever.

However, let's also obey these ground rules:

NO replying to critique/debate/insult/whatever another post in this thread. You post your opinion, other people post theirs.
NO jabs/insults (no matter how well hidden) at other people/ideas/developers for not agreeing with your views.
TRY to say everything you need/want to say in one post so the devs/forum goers can read it once and get everything you were trying to say. If you need to add something and you can't edit, reference the old post and quote what you are adding to/modifying to make the flow of thought easier on readers.

This is not another thread to argue/debate different ideas for the Vasari. It is only a thread where everyone posts their opinions so the devs don't need to shuffle through 10 threads riddled with arguments and debates to figure out what people think.
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That said, here's my take. Overall, I'm very happy with the Vasari and so far I enjoy them more than the TEC. Their special abilities (especially on capitals) make them quite a bit more varied than their TEC counterparts, and their tech trees are diverse enough to offer some interesting bonuses as well.

But the real diversity only comes into play with late-game tech levels, that are mostly unreachable in small/medium games unless they drag out for unreasonably long periods of time. This denies the Vasari most of their tricks, and more or less forces the player to play them in a manner very similar to the TEC. Yes, they have a bit smaller fleets, and they start off a bit slower, but the core gameplay is essentially the same.

For this reason, I believe the Vasari could benefit from a two main tweaks, both of which were already suggested by me and others:

1) Make some of their defining techs (such as phase gates) available earlier in the tech tree, making them a common enough occurence in at least medium games, and thus allowing the Vasari to be played the way they are meant to be.

2) Slightly rebalance their core ships to provide a little more firepower at the cost of some survivability and possibly even higher fleet point requirement (the costs I feel are fairly sufficient, at least metal. Perhaps a little more credits/crystal, but the metal drags down production in the beginning pretty well as it is).

The reasoning behind it is that any highly mobile force traditionally is able to get in, do its damage fast, and get out before the more cumbersome enemy can drown them in their own units. We know that the TEC are meant to be this cumbersome "hammer down" force, and the Vasari are meant to use mobility and finesse. But currently, the Vasari ships are balanced much more on their staying power (higher base hull hp/shields, earlier tech shield research, self repair) than their ability to destroy their targets more efficiently. So while they can get in as a mobile force, once in the grav well they lose much of their mobility and finesse.

Essentially, I am NOT proposing a change that would make smaller Vasari fleets be able to take down much larger TEC fleets. I am NOT proposing high survivability AND high damage output. I AM proposing a bit of a rebalance that would allow them to show more finesse by being able to achieve their objectives faster, but because their ships would be more brittle and fewer in number, they would not be able to stand up to a large TEC fleet. Essentially, guerrilla and hit and run tactics that have become synonymous with 'finesse'. The TEC player would then have to split up his defensive forces, and the Vasari player could then organize surgical strikes to take out some key defenses here and there, and thus always keep the sluggish TEC on its toes.
12,540 views 71 replies
Reply #26 Top
done by us in one night of messing around.
End of quote


that seems to happen with a lot of stuff... do you guys even actually work during the day?
Reply #27 Top
*slaps eets*

you shouldn't lick a horse in the mouth, and damn you use a lot of tongue
Reply #28 Top
Do you know that from personal experience Schem?
Reply #29 Top
we've all seen eet go frenchie to the local SDCians
Reply #30 Top
mmm, SDCians... *frenches empy*
Reply #31 Top
The Vasari are overall a really good race. The thing that bothers me is that their cost verses TEC are HIGH in early game. Early game the Vassari need to start out faster. It was very clear in a game last night, that if you don't upgrade the military units quickly then it is impossible to maintain a stable fleet.
Reply #32 Top
thats the point avvy, the vaz are rediculous lategame but you need to build them up first :P
Reply #33 Top



The voices in beta 4 are all placeholders done by us in one night of messing around. The voicework from professional actors is now in the game and you'll hear it at release (the Vasari is substantially different).

End of quote


Thanks, that's great news.

I just watched the new release of Blade Runner, could you get Rutger Hauer to do the Vasari?, He was very menacing and from the Netherlands. ;) 

Very menacing
Reply #34 Top
I like the Vasari late game. Its the reward for waiting sooooo LONG!

But its not enough when the tec can build the UBER FLEET OF DEATH in about an hr. With Vasari your just solidifing your military and building your ships.
Reply #35 Top
WOW.... much vasari opinion. not much consolidating...


I agree that early game Vasari pretty much blow right now, but the repeatedly mentioned tech-tree re-shuffle should be able to pretty much cover all the major complaints I have, if the distinctive tech advantages have been made MORE accessible.

*crosses fingers*


Real voice acting will cover all the other complaints

*double crosses fingers*
Reply #36 Top
mmm, SDCians... *frenches empy*
End of quote


*slaps eets*

What do I look like, Kosc?
Reply #37 Top
 :LOL: 
someone's girl is mad at her man.
Reply #38 Top
*frenches shoddy and empy at the same time*

KISS AND MAKE OUT!
Reply #39 Top
fortunately I have no mouth, I'm immune to your failed attempts.
Reply #40 Top
Wow, really.

So in person you must be at least partially barable.
Reply #41 Top
unfortunately for you emp, I have vocal chord analogues in the form of undulating antenae, I can still speak :P
Reply #42 Top
Its not just unfortunate for me, its unfortunate for everyone.
Reply #43 Top
naw, people who dont write on compressed dung beetle crap and smoke "weedgarettes" are generally fine :d
Reply #44 Top
I beg to differ.

And that is such a nerdy hippy refrance, its not even funny :P
Reply #45 Top
ah yes, the "your insult sucks" insult. very clever!
Reply #46 Top
Its not an insult, in my opinion you take pleasure in being called a nerd.

Nerd :)
Reply #47 Top
Hey I'm a nerd and im PROUD of it...star trek..check...Stagate...check...D&D...check....carpel tunnel from computer...check....

Nerd=good
Reply #49 Top
Nerd
End of quote

why, *sniff* thank you so much Emp! its the best... uh... somethingorother present I've ever gotten! *hysterical happy crying*
Hey I'm a nerd and im PROUD of it...star trek..check...Stagate...check...D&D...check....carpel tunnel from computer...check....
End of quote

pfft, forgot your math lectures on your ipod, duh.
Reply #50 Top

Hey I'm a nerd and im PROUD of it...star trek..check...Stagate...check...D&D...check....carpel tunnel from computer...check....

Nerd=good
End of quote


It's Sta"r"gate, bye the way.