I AM a Christian

Riiiight... That's a really unfair way to approach a relationship. Maybe you'll be able to find someone who is content with always being second best, but they're not going to be very interesting.

[quote]When I say... 'I am a Christian' I'm not holier than thou,
I'm just a simple sinner Who received God's good grace, somehow![quote]

This annoys me a little. How do you know you have received God's good grace somehow? The Pharisees thought they had God's good grace too, but Jesus was around back then to disabuse them of such notions. How can you be sure Jesus thinks you're awesome? Isn't it a little arrogant to assume that an omnipotent being has you in his good books?

Because that's all you're doing - assuming based on what he did with a small number of other people.

I think cacto said all I was going to say.

~Zoo

Maybe you'll be able to find someone who is content with always being second best, but they're not going to be very interesting.

Because of my love for God, I am better able to love my husband much more than if I didn't love God first. God is love. Because of his love for me I am so much better able to take what he's given to me and give to another. I've been married before and after coming to Christ. There is a big difference in our relationship for the better after coming to Christ. We are not an exception. I see this all the time. Marriages with Christ in them are so much stronger than those without.

This annoys me a little. How do you know you have received God's good grace somehow?

Now this is a fair question and one not easy to answer to someone who doesn't believe. For one thing, I've heard his word, heard his voice, believed it to be true, claimed it for myself and have followed him ever since. Since then he has shown me how he's there for me and I have felt his presence not to mention seen the changes he's wrought in my own life. There is no way I changed myself into who I am today. Perhaps Jesus said it best when he said:

"Truly, Truly I say to you, He that hears my word and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death to life."

Going back to the love topic, there is no way I would have had love in my heart for people that I have today. God has changed me and I am forever grateful for these changes. It's like I'm alive like I should be. He said those that come to him shall have an abundant life. Until then we have no idea what this means thinking we're living it to the utmost. It's not true. It's like I was dead before, but now I'm alive. And, He's not done with me yet. There's still lots of work to be done. I am a work in progress.

assuming based on what he did with a small number of other people.

not assuming, claiming what he's offered me. It's like I grasped a lifeline. And out of this lifeline came nourshiment that I had never felt or known before.

Yeah...sometimes. God is also anger, wrath, and death. That's been demonstrated in the Bible. No being, not even God is immune to emotion. We're created in his image, afterall. So it stands to reason that he has the same emotions.

~Zoo

Zoo,

the only time God is angry is against sin. He's angry over sin. It's ok to be angry over sin. Sin is rebellion against him, aligning ourselves with the enemy of God.

His greatest attribute is NOT anger but love. Over and over we read by the writers of the old and new testaments that God is SLOW to anger. Think about Christ on the cross and beforehand at his sentencing (I suggest you read it)and you'll see a picture of what I speak of.

The flood is another example as well as Sodom. It was only after sin reached epidemic proportions that he reigned down on them. It grieved him to do this.

Remember Satan's lie in the garden? He wants us to think skeptically and severely about God. It's his greatest lie.

It says eating shellfish is a sin somewhere in Leviticus...like right before homosexuality. I'm already going to hell because I love seafood.

9These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.


Delicious shrimp and crab...you are an abomination unto me.
~Zoo

It says eating shellfish is a sin somewhere in Leviticus...like right before homosexuality. I'm already going to hell because I love seafood.

no, no no. This is from someone who tells me he doesn't understand scripture? Gah!!!!

First off no one was going to hell for eating shellfish. THe Jews were given a dietary law for reasons. One was for health reasons, another was to be different than other cultures around them. Nowwhere was this given to Christians. In fact this was done away with in Acts Chap 8 (I believe) with Peter. It had to do with the separation of the Jews and Gentiles and now God was saying all is fit to eat. The distinction between them (the mystery) was to be done away with. So shell away!!! .

Copying and pasting someone ELSE's words is "from the heart"?

Who knew?

*sigh*

The Bible is like the Bill of Rights...amending and changing all kinds of stuff.

~Zoo

hahahaha, well time changes Zoo. God said for a time that type of food...pork and shellfish wasn't ready for the eating and later he said it was ok. I could get into quite a lengthy explanation here, but will refrain......where's Lula?   

Well that's convenient, but why is Peter so holy all of a sudden? Jesus knew he was an untrustworthy bastard but figured he'd be good enough to be the rock. Look what that rock turned into!

Personally I don't consider any but the example of Christ's own actions to be worthy of any attention. The old testament sorts were bloodthirsty barbarians and the disciples were filled with fear and a kind of pious yet vicious passive aggression that doesn't put them forward as particularly holy or particularly good examples to live by.

The central message of Jesus - love one another - is something I can believe in. It's the right thing to do. But the rest of it? I'll leave that behind, thanks. You don't need a list of rules a mile long to love, nor is throwing someone in hell a particularly good expression of love.

If you're going to worship something it may as well be a virtue rather than something that looks suspiciously like a shopping list of bizarre sexual hang-ups and manners.

Love God, have no other God before him. That's all you need, and all the other commandments will fall into place.

That means other Gods exist...interesting concept, eh?

~Zoo

Well that's convenient, but why is Peter so holy all of a sudden?

all of a sudden? He wasn't. That's not how it works. Peter was human like the rest of us. He's exactly the type God uses. God doesn't want somebody perfect (or thinks he is) but rather somebody who understands his weakness and relies on God's strength, not his own. That's why the Pharisees couldn't be used of God. God chooses the weak things of the world to confound the wise. Peter was first justified and then sanctified. After justification comes sanctification which is an ongoing process.

That means other Gods exist...interesting concept, eh?

it's sort of like this....ONE God (big G)......MANY gods (little g).

[

People MAKE things into gods all the time. Man-made gods are throughout history.

So what's to say...eh...forget it. I was going to open a can of worms but I'm not.

~Zoo

all hail the great and powerful amphorum de vermis

The point I was trying to get at is that much of the rules of christianity seem to come from acts, the letters and the old testament. These are all highly suspect because they're based on the words and actions of regular people who claimed godliness but didn't always act like it.

Jesus, from all accounts, acted godly. So why are the rules of those who weren't godly held on par with the one simple rule of Jesus (two technically, but let's not split hairs)?

Because the other 'rules' show you how to fulfil the one simple rule.

Really? You have must some interesting habits in your relationships, Jythier, if you find Revelations or Leviticus a guide to loving other people!

I suppose it really is true - everyone has their kink!

Revelations? I thought that was a book of prophecy, I don't remember any rules coming out of there... maybe the letters to the churches?

Leviticus: all this shit is an abomination unto you.

Revelations: you're all going to die.

There's some love right there.

~Zoo

The point I was trying to get at is that much of the rules of christianity seem to come from acts, the letters and the old testament. These are all highly suspect because they're based on the words and actions of regular people who claimed godliness but didn't always act like it.

We are never going to be perfect this side of eternity, not one of us. But as we get closer to God thru the process of sanctification we leave more and more of the world behind. The gap should be wider as we get to know God better. That's what we see in the Apostles. We see God take weak human beings and together with his word in their hearts and the Holy Spirit's indwelling we see new men emerging. That's why you see or hear so many that come to Christ tell how their lives were changed. Only the Word of God has the power to change lives in a way like no other. It cuts to the heart and quickens the soul.

Jesus, from all accounts, acted godly.

of course he did. He was God in the flesh. He was 100% God....something we can never be.

So why are the rules of those who weren't godly held on par with the one simple rule of Jesus (two technically, but let's not split hairs)?

Can you rephrase this question. Not sure I'm getting exactly what you're getting at here?

Zoo think of it this way.....these books you're talking about serve as a warning as to what will happen if you do thus and thus. Sort of like Adam and Eve. They were warned first before they made their choice.

Of course they were stupid...inherently and didn't listen. Try telling your dog a piece of meat is poisoned...chances are he's going to eat it regardless.

Leviticus is a bunch of crappy rules and Revelations is ultimate pain in the ass endtimes. I have to brush up on my zombie killing skills.

~Zoo