Our kids are our future

Definitely something to ponder about, but you may be asking for too much. Basically, you're taking a lot of responsibility out of the hands of the parent and putting them into the hands of the government.

Now, I think the real problem is this - if the government is paying for school, meals, after school programs, healthcare, and college, then the government can regulate all those things. The more they pay, the more they regulate. And government regulation of all those things is a terrible thing. See, when the government regulates things, they like to eliminate any choice you may have. Also, the cost of everything goes up, and the effectiveness goes down.

What about people who want to homeschool? Government control of after school activity would lead to there being one or two ASAs, instead of the multitude we have now. After all, schools tend to cut the music and art programs first when they cut things, why wouldn't they cut after school programming until there's none? Free none, but none.

I think it's the kind of idea that would be great in theory, but not in practice. Having free stuff is great. Having the government in control sucks. So we pay for stuff so we can have better/nicer/more stuff than the government would give. You could suggest we make the government just pay for whatever we want, but that bird probably won't fly.

Definitely something to ponder about, but you may be asking for too much. Basically, you're taking a lot of responsibility out of the hands of the parent and putting them into the hands of the government.

Well, I'm not necesarily taking away the responsibility from the parents but actually giving them a bit more freedom to stay afloat and move forward in life. By not having to worry about buying school supplies (since we here in Florida have to buy what the schools want, nothing more nothing less), uniforms (if they have uniforms), meals (I don't ever recall paying for my breakfast and lunch in school, now my son does, about $20 a week) and mode of transportation, parents will not have to rush to stores looking for items on sales, waiting for tax free days and the long lines at Walmart for schools supplies and uniforms. Children need healthy meals to keep their brains working properly in order to absorb all the knowledge, it's a shame that a child could go without lunch or breakfast just because he/she has no money in his/her account and already owes $5 to the lunch lady while the parents have to wait till payday to give the child money for his/her account.

This is not about making the Gov't do everything for us, but to give all children of this nation the same opportunities to make something of themselves with the hopes of securing a better future for this nation. Imagine how many of those children who could not finish school or afford college could have been great scientist, engineers, World Leaders, inventors; we could have had cures to many deseases, discovered the rtuth behind global warming, be using alternative fuels and even know more about outer space. But we will never really know because those children were never given a chance.

Now don't think I would expect every child in the country to be the next Albert Einstein, Bill Gates or George Washington; but at least we can feel good knowing we gave them the chance to reach the stars if they really wanted to.

Now, I think the real problem is this - if the government is paying for school, meals, after school programs, healthcare, and college, then the government can regulate all those things. The more they pay, the more they regulate. And government regulation of all those things is a terrible thing. See, when the government regulates things, they like to eliminate any choice you may have. Also, the cost of everything goes up, and the effectiveness goes down.

Yes, I know. Trust me when I say I would rather not have the Gov't involved. But my goal is not some kind of welfare system but a system that will have no limits, no walls, no obsticles to stop a child from getting the education they deserve. Once born as an American they automatically qualify, no need to apply. My main point here is that while the Gov't gets to set the rules, I always believed we, the people, are the Gov't and the rules would be set based on our choices not choices by some idiot in the oval office and a bunch of idiots in the 2 Houses. I just believe its time we took our Gov't back and with it our lives.

What about people who want to homeschool?

Well I never said making it mandatory, but if people chose to stay out of the system it is up to them to pay their way. Maybe some kind of tax break for not using schools materials and property.

Government control of after school activity would lead to there being one or two ASAs, instead of the multitude we have now. After all, schools tend to cut the music and art programs first when they cut things, why wouldn't they cut after school programming until there's none? Free none, but none.

What I meant was using the current ones we have but all having the same set of guidelines. Example, the Boys and Girls club my son currently goes to is not exactly one I would recomend all parents to try. I have very few choices in ASA where my son can be without affecting my job or that of his mother. I can not afford a better place so I'm really out of options. But this could be better if they had better rules, better control. Again, we take back our Gov't and make sure that our children are getting the right education, including art and music.

I think it's the kind of idea that would be great in theory, but not in practice.

That's why I asked if it seemed I was asking too much, hehe.

Having free stuff is great.

Now you see, I don't necessarily see it as free. To me this is kinda like paying for a car before you are actually old enough to drive it. This will be paid for by our own taxes, and allowing our children to have all the opportunities to become better citizens of this nation is payback enough for me. Even if some of them fail regardless.

Having the government in control sucks. So we pay for stuff so we can have better/nicer/more stuff than the government would give. You could suggest we make the government just pay for whatever we want, but that bird probably won't fly.

I would look at it the same way someone here looked at how we need the Gov't for such things as roads. As individuals we are not capable of making and maintain roads and bridges by ourselves, but together we can. Same for our childrens future.

I know this sounds like a lot and I'm sure there are better ways to do this. I am willing to listen to any ideas and suggestions. My goal is to make a good idea better, not have it "my way or the highway".

The other problem, thanks for getting back to this so fast by the way, is that who are the kids that don't succeed going to blame their failure on? Their parents, for not providing? Can't, it was provided. No after school programs or extracurricular activities? Can't, they were available. No, they'll only have themselves to blame, and that is unnacceptable. So it will never get voted in!

kids need to be educated not indoctrinated.


all this free stuff is nice. who is going to pay for it.

Some schools, even public schools, have fees to be paid to get a schedule, and they hold the kids out of class until the fees are paid.

This is great stuff LW. Just the kind of questioning I was looking for. I know public schools are free. What I meant when I said free was their entire education till at least 12th grade. I probably would agree with school vouchers for private schools, but I just want it to be paid period, no questions asked. Except if the school abuses with charging to much, then there’s a problem.

I know there are programs for schools supplies, my company just recently participated in a program that gave some children from many schools bookbags full of school supplies. My point is schools should supply all the necessities, eliminating the need to have to go to stores trying to find supplies amongst the messes made by other people, having to do the long lines and just simply not having to worry about it at all. I know it’s a lot to ask but considering how not so expensive it is to buy it, why not have the schools supply it. I constantly hear here in Florida how the Lottery gives billions and how there are millions of dollars being poured into the Florida education system. Having been in Florida for 12 years, I don’t see where the hell that money is going to.



Again, I know that. My point is there are some places, such as where I live where buses don’t pick up children for my sons school because we live within a certain distance. The problem is when we take him to school it takes us 45 minute to an hour just to drop him off. We could use a private school bus but that cost a lot. I think all children, and parents, deserve to have a bus pick them up, except maybe if you live 500 ft from your school, but then.



My son was on a school lunch program, he still had to pay even if it was about ¼ of what he pays now. But because I got a $1 raise we no longer qualify. But what I don’t get is why we pay at all, as a child I never paid for breakfast or lunch, not once. Breakfast and lunch are essential to children’s development, why the hell are we charging them for it?

I understand that part about those who don’t have kids should not have to pay for it, but in this case we are talking about the future of this country, our children. They are already paying for everything that has to do with public education, why not do a little more. This is not about giving free stuff to lazy people. It’s about giving those who may not be able to succeed in life and might end up as those lazy people a chance to avoid that. I would think that could somewhat lower the number of uneducated people that could end up living poor and draining our Gov’t of money thru assistance programs. May as well shift the money from one program to another, except this time we may get better results. But that’s just a theory.



Well, I had to pay $150 a week for my son in the YMCA. That’s why I went to the boys and girls club which was $120 a month. My problem with the Boys and Girls club is just that it’s not what you see on TV. Since when are pool tables and arcade games something to educate children? What ever happened to the sports and games they show on TV?

I know some churches do that but at the moment I am not in the religious system due to the fact that my faith is kinda lost and I am in search for something to believe in. Maybe once I find what I am looking for that church may be able to help me out. But I need something solid, something for every day, it’s bad enough I now have to take my lunch at 2:00 in the afternoon just so I can go all the way to my sons school to pick him up and drop him off at the B&G club leaving only 15 minutes to grab a bit and wasting gas in the process. Not to mention that because of this I have to keep the car and my wife has to catch rides with unreliable people to work. She has already missed a few days of work and has had to leave early as well. This is not looking good for our budget.

I just think when it comes to children, they should not have to pay the price for such a screwed up system like the one we have. Parents don’t have that much time now a days cause both have to work. School hours keep being moved back more and more and kids spend less time in school. I use to get out at 4:00, my son gets out at 2:00. That makes no sense.



I guess that sorta makes sense but I just believe that all children, rich or not, deserve some kind of net just in case.



OK so maybe the College part was too much. That’s why I asked what you think. I am not fully educated in all matters of education so I will come off a bit uneducated in some instances.

I agree we do plenty for kids. I just think we can do more since what were are currently doing does not seem to be working at a much better rate. I just don’t think children should get their education based on their income. Is that really a bad thing to believe in? This is not about the adults and giving them something for free when they can afford it. It’s about giving our children a chance to be something, even if they have money. It’s kinda interesting to see how most people I hear from who have gone to Yale or Harvard usually turn out to be from rich families. I just figure it would be nice to give others a chance by actually giving it to them.

So what are you complaining about again?

Well, my article was not so much a complaint LW. It was more of an idea that could use some or a lot ironing, as I stated at the end of it.

Not that I wouldn’t have expected it from you, but you do realized all you did was criticize the article and not once did you offer any ideas to make this better or what part should be done differently. But that’s OK, You made very good points, many of which I am aware of but still think can be done better. Again, it’s for the children. I just think we should not hold back when it comes to children.

Thank you for replying. Great stuff.

You know my son did not eat lunch the other day cause he had already used up his money in his account (since he is no longer on the lunch program he pays full price) and he had exceeded his account by 5 dollars. But the school never said anything about his account till he could no longer buy food. If that is not shameful, i don't know what is.

My school lunchlady always alerted us to our remaining balance, especially if it was low.

Also, I paid for school lunch. I didn't eat breakfast at school. But you could bring a lunch, and that was a lot cheaper.

Unless you are participating in the free or reduced price lunch program.

Charles, I find it highly unlikely that you don't qualify for reduced or free lunches for your kids. My boys both qualified for FREE lunches this year.

You need to apply again and see if you qualify for something. The guidelines are ridiculously loose.

I just looked up the guidelines. For this year, the cut off for reduced lunches (fam of 4) is $44,641 annually. You qualify for free lunches if your income is $29K or less.

(We only report base pay, which is about $26k for an E-5 with more than 4 but less than 6 years in service.)

I could send you the letter if you want. I have it at the house. I barely make $25,000 myself. My wife makes around $20,000.

That is an OK idea, if it wasn't because my son is so picky. It would be easy to give him lunches. But you know what? I will have to start doing that. It's a shame though, I never paid for lunch during my school years. I just don't understand how the Florida Education system that has so much money being thrown at it makes children pay for food.

It makes PARENTS pay for food. Parents who make over 45k, which you seem to, and even more if you get health insurance, or any benefits paid for, etc. Might not, but hey.

45k is a lot of money.

My son will eat eggs in the morning for breakfast, but only if you don't give him anything else first. Yes, he WILL eat when he's hungry enough.

In that case you are probably just slightly over the line (which makes the raise thing make sense).

We actually don't fill out our paperwork. We give the school an LES (Leave and Earnings Statement) and they fill it out. I was very surprised about qualifying for free lunches this year and I felt a little guilty, but the schools do like to have as many kids on free or reduced as they can because it helps with their funding.

Oh, and Adrian just found out he made points for SSG! Woohoo!

CharlesCS1,

I agree with all 6 of your points. My concern isn't so much about the old freeloaders on society argument but about creating a two-tiered class based society, where you have two groups of kids- one group which has been given every advantage and opportunity to grow and learn (these kids will probably grow up to be the boss-man, and will hang out in their own social circle of fellow educated elites) and the other much larger group which end up with a dumbed-down education because the public system had only the most bare-bones funding (this much larger group will end up being the workers and probably have an unhealthy addiction to NASCAR and NFL)

It's slowly being recognized in the mainstream media that the words "middle class" aren't so much anymore- over the past 30 odd years or so thanks to inflation a middle class family has a lot less spending power than they use to. Back in the early 70's it was entirely possible for the average family to be supported by one income. You know, those heady days when the average joe (or jane) had an average job, one or two kids, station wagon and house, and on top of it was able to take the family somewhere nice once a year for vacation. These days "middle class" means at least two incomes, MAYBE a house (unless you're one of the unlucky 7 million people who will lose their homes in the housing bubble collapse that is just starting)and maybe two cars. maybe. If you're a lucky middle class person then your employer is providing your healthcare or a good portion of it. If not, then the average joe has to dole out approximately 15 % of his take home pay just for coverage.

Anywho. I grew up in a small town that is close to a big city. What this meant was that there were two types of people living in town;

1) people who lived and worked in town- mostly at the sawmill, the biggest local employer.
2) people who lived in town but worked in the city as highly paid professionals, executives, but wanted to have the "small town" life

Because of the boom in the big city, both categories were close to equal in size, let's say the mill group was about 60% and the well off group were about 40%. Today this number is closer to equal.

Now, most of the people in category 1 and 2 sent their kids to the same public schools in town. Some of the really well off sent their kids to fancy private schools in the city, but not so much. But boy did you see a world of difference!

The well off kids grew up not worrying about where their lunch would come from. If they were having trouble with their classes the folks made sure they got a tutor, special extra-curricular classes, schedule cleared until the grades went back up and no price was too high. The issue of post-secondary was never a problem for them. Mom and Pop had enough money set aside so they could easily do a four year university program, with of course a complimentary summer trip to europe after graduation! During high school some of the well off kids got a part time job here or there but the moment that awesome weekend party came along, guess who would be quitting in a heartbeat!

The "mill" kids was a way different story. Their folks would have loved to give them all the same advantages that the well-off kids got but they were too busy keeping their heads above water, paying the bills and putting food on the table. Most of these kids didn't have the luxury of actually getting to be a 'kid' as they learned early on that the world is a tough place. Language enrichment classes? Sorry son, but we've gotta make the mortgage payment and keep gas in the tank! Need extra time to work on some problems you're having with your classes? Oohh, I dunno, that might mean you'll have to quit your 5 nights a week job, can't have that now! And college- well, unless you get a scholarship for being really smart, looks like you get rewarded with tens of thousands of dollars of debt for a sub-par community college!

How it all worked out in the end was this:

A very small portion of the mill kids, the ones who were naturally gifted or ridiculously hard workers DID excel, they put their noses to the grindstone and did pretty well for themselves. However the vast majority of the mill kids now work in the mill or other similar industry. They have no real interest in politics other than gruffly muttering "they're all liars!". For the most part, they don't believe that they can change the world in any way. And then a good maybe 20% never graduated and either went to work in some dead end menial labor job, or fell into addictions problems, fell off the face of the earth etc.

A very small portion of the well-off kids, the best and the brightest were groomed for executive management roles and are now among the small percentile of people who call the shots for big companies and organizations, ran for office etc. The average of the well off kids are now in the equivalent of middle management jobs or above. They are almost all politically active and versed in other cultures, many are multilingual. The "failures" of the well off, while not doing anything productive are living at home with mom and pop and still living the high life. The group of failures among the well off is relatively small.

I believe both sets of kids were roughly equal in intelligence, but one group was nurtured and provided every opportunity for growth, and the other was not. When one group ran into problems and needed some help to understand things they got it. The other group was told that they had to do things on their own, never ask for anything! And so they grew up into a bunch of rugged individuals with one hell of a work ethic, but too damned proud to ever question why they seemed to get the short end of the stick!

OK LW. I think you are judging way too fast before you even get to understand my point and who I really am. You came to this article with a set mentallity and never gave a chance to understand it.

Don't worry, I knew this article would bring some criticism so I am not feeling picked on. I myself have admitted to being really bad at managing my own money, though I have made a great improvement these past 6 months.

I have 2 kids not 1. My youngest goes to a daycare of which we pay $145 a week. That's $580 a month for those of you who are too lazy to calculate. My oldest gets out of school at 2:00. At this time both me and my wife are working. I have been forced to change my lunch schedule at work in order to pick him up and drop him off at the boy's & girls club every day. This cost me a lot of gas since his school is not around the corner from me and the boy's and girls club is not close to his school. Lucky I only pay $20 for the whole year but during the summer I paid $60 every 2 weeks. That was after I got him out of another summer camp which I paid $85 a week. I had to wait for an opening. It took a while let me tell you.

This is not about me feeling entitled to anything. You must be confusing me with people who don't want to work and want everything given to them. I work hard for my money, I like buying my own stuff with my own hard earned money. I don't mind paying for my sons lunches. My point is that when I was a child kids did not have to pay for lunch before. Now they do and I think that is wrong when a child goes without lunch just because either the parent did not have the money at the moment the child was told he needed to add more to his account or the school failed to let the child and parents know he was over his limit. As I said before, breakfast and lunch is an essential part of a child development. I just don't see why, with all the billions being poured in to the education system, should children have to pay for it. I reiterate my words. this is not about feeling entitled, this is about ensuring our children have the necessary benefits that would allow them to get the best education possible. Let the failures stand out not because of lack of money, food and school supplies. This can make it easier to target those who are not doing well in school and give them the help they need to succeed or at least pass.

BTW, considering I know what it's like to be poor and I have seen it time and time again, I do not feel poor. I believe I make a decent living and if I learn to manage my money properly I can avoid repeating my last 6 years of my life. I work for the biggest cement company in the US, which is now the second in the world since we were bought of by the second largest. I work in the Accounting Dept and I have some of the best benefits in the company including incentives and a lot of free food. With time and hard work I see myself moving up in the company faster than I can imagine it. The company will even reemburse me for going to school.

Poor? Not a chance. Bad at managing my money? Yes, but am improving.



As I said I am improving on my budget. Right now all my bill are up to day, my rent is paid and I still have a few bucks in my pocket. I always shop for value, Walmart is my best friend, but I sometimes buy a bit more expensive for the quality and for it to last longer. Trust me when I tell you that most of my meals at home are inexpensive though not all are very nutricious I will admit, but I have changed things such as soda in the house making my kids drink stuff such as natural orange juice and lots of water.

I have to worry about my son being picky. He has gone a whole day without eating just because he did not like what we had in the house to eat at the time. I don't want him to eat something he does not like and make him sick like I have seen happen before with him. You may think its no big deal but (without any insult intended) I would like to see you try to force something to your own child that he/she does not like. I should know, as a child I was just as picky if not worse than him. I learn to expand my palet as an adult chosing to do it at my own time.

I think you got me all wrong here LW, while I see and understand your point and somewhat agree with it. I stress this is not about entitle ment, or any democratic mentality. My goal here is to provide our children (keep in mind that while not every American has a child American children are this countries future none the less) with the best chances to succeed in life to secure a better future for our nation. As adults it's up to themselves to take advantage of this education given to them to either be great citizens or lazy people.

Another thing, some people may think "why should I have to pay if I don't have kids?", but I see it this way. People who don't have cars pay taxes to roads. People who don't have kids pay taxes for education. People who don't use Gov't assistance pay for it. It's just the way this country works. I think that at least for our children and our future, education should be one thing no one should hold back from helping.

Artysim

Thank you, you seem to have understood my point the best. All I look for is to give every child of this nation, citizens of course, the same opportunities to become the best they can be. A rich child is no different than a poor one except one has better chances of a good education over the other. It is my belief that if we want this nation to become the greatest or better than it is right now is to provide the best education possible to all children of this nation, rich or poor.

So far these past few years have shown that the average American, including myself, is not well educated. Feeling we should get everything even when we don't work for it is not the way for a nation to survive and stay on top. We depend so much on technology now a days that I'm sure the average person could not open a can of beans without a can opener or without smashing the can to bits. People don't even understand the basis of this country, the laws, even the Constitution itself.

Most of this ignorance can be cured with a proper education, but if we continue to make getting the proper education as easy as winning the lottery 3 times a year, we're gonna end up like the movie Idiocracy. While it's just a movie and unlikely to happen in such a short period of time, it's scary to think that it almost seems possible at all.