I didn't understand two and three-digit subtraction with borrowing until my grandmother sat down with me once in fourth grade and helped me figure it out. My teacher just wasn't teaching it like *I* need to get it. It wasn't that he wasn't a good teacher, I just didn't understand.

ummmmm.....NOT!

How can you so quickly dismiss someone you hadn't heard about until thirty minutes ago?

yikes  

But, what happens if there is nobody at home that can help?  The problem with relying on homework is that you are assuming that there are educated parents at home that can help.  The problem is that there isn't always somebody at home that can help teach anything other than the instructions that you send home (assuming that you send them home).

Also, in that scenario, the argument about repetition is thrown out the window.  If you have it repeated at school and don't understand it, yet somebody else is able to teach it a different way- it's not repetition that is helping you learn.

Also, in that scenario, the argument about repetition is thrown out the window. If you have it repeated at school and don't understand it, yet somebody else is able to teach it a different way- it's not repetition that is helping you learn.

I wasn't arguing for repetition.

The kids who don't have someone at home to help them (which is crap...it's adults choosing NOT to help or care at this level) just don't turn it in. The directions are sent home and are very clear. There is no NEW content being sent home. If the child put forth a smidge of effort in class, he or she should be able to get it by him or herself at home without adult supervision.

How does a teacher satisfy everyone? If I didn't send homework home, half of the families would complain. When I send it home, hardly any of it gets returned anyway. And then those are the parents that complain that I'm not "communicating" what's going on in class, when in fact, I communicate our goings-on DAILY. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's not about relying on HW. It's about cementing new concepts that are freshly learned. It's about training your brain to think in a new way. That's why I said repetition is helpful. Now I'm not saying usless or junk repetition but just enough for the child,teacher and parent know that he's got it.



This is true. But what about parents that are home and would like to see their child have some HW? I was one of those parents. I would assume the teacher was a lazy teacher if she didn't send home any HW because she/he didn't want to correct papers.



You can't. Impossible. You have to go with your gut. If they seem as if they totally get a concept maybe that's all that's needed. But if there seems to be a struggle classwide,then doing HW would be good practice for them to learn this new way. I also think HW is good discipline for them in all sorts of ways other than just doing the work itself. It's teaching them responsibility in completing a task and turning it in at a proper time.

Marcie-


Oh, I realize that, Marcie. My mother's a public school teacher (and has been for the last 40 years). I realize quite a bit of what's going on. I also realize that the "teaching to the test" is something that the school DISTRICT emphasizes more so than the individual teacher.



Been there. Done That. Still do it. I've disagreed with NCLB (and got into several rather ... heated ... debates with the maternal unit over it.

See, I come from the POV that my 9 year old autistic son, no matter how frighteningly intelligent he is, is not going to be working to the same standard that his little sister (arguable the smartest of the bunch of smart kids) will be at the same age. They just don't THINK in the same manner.


KFC -


Now, that's my problem with homework. Admittedly, I've ALWAYS had a problem with homework. Part of it comes from the fact that I'm a lazy SOB by nature. The other part comes from the fact that I've NOT needed the "reinforcement" or the "cementing new concepts". With my children, when they were in the local school system, this wasn't what the homework was trying to accomplish. It was information that was NOT covered in school. They were using the homework to cover material that was supposed to be covered in class, but wasn't.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE find a copy of "The Case against Homework" and read it. Check out http://stophomework.com/.

It is amazing to me that "good Homework practices" are not taught as a class in university for upcoming teachers. That's crazy. But the reason it's not taught I think is that there have not been good studies of what is the right amount.

I have told my wife, daughter, her teacher and the administration that I think 10 minutes per grade is appropriate and about the max I will have her do. After 20 minutes (in her case) I'll either know she knows the material or know she doesn't and the teacher needs to do something different (or I do). Doing the problems wrong for an hour doesn't make a kid learn it. it just reinforces the wrong way to do it.

The fact is I'm not a teacher. I don't know how she is teaching and I may not do it the "right" way. [I recall huge fights with my older girls for doing math homework "THE WRONG WAY!!"]

On a personal level, I was a D/C student because of homework. I aced tests and got concepts but refused to waste my time on meaningless work. I won't do that to my kids. And I won't take time away from being with the family or unstructured play so a teacher can have make-work that takes up 30+% of a grade (which I think is crazy). Base grades on understanding (tests + classroom discussion).

As an aside; my family reads for pleasure. Reading at grade level teaches spelling, grammar, comprehension, and critical thinking. This reading does not factor into the 10 minute per grade rule. Reading assignments for class does count.

Tex . .if homework is so hard and your kid is getting the concept . . try to meet with the teacher and negotiate a compromise.

Try to get the teacher to allow you to do half of every assignment. Every odd number, or some such crap. Talk them into agreeing that "getting the concept" is the point of the homework. Get them to agree that "of course it's not busy-work". Then spring the "half-homework for a month" plan. They'll have a hard time arguing with it if you've already won the first to points.

Now you have a place to start a dialog. After a month . . meet again and see what the results were. If your kid is as smart as you claim they'll glom onto this plan and work their asses off to meet it. Work the amount of homework down to what you and the teach think is reasonable to prove knowledge of the concept. Be ready if it fails to step in to fix whatever the problem is.

Try to get the teacher to allow you to do half of every assignment. Every odd number, or some such crap. Talk them into agreeing that "getting the concept" is the point of the homework. Get them to agree that "of course it's not busy-work". Then spring the "half-homework for a month" plan. They'll have a hard time arguing with it if you've already won the first to points.

To me, if a parent is willing to work with their student, I would be MORE than willing to work with that. It *is* more about understanding than completing the assignment. It also means a whole lot more to me that a parent is working with their kid than finishing all the problems on the page.

 

So, you are saying that illiterate people don't have kids?  Do you have no immigrants in your classes.  It's not crap- the fact is that not all parents are capable of helping their kids.

I hope you don't teach Math...So, 1/2 of the families would complain if their wasn't homework, yet hardly any (less than half) gets returned?  If half want homework, then why isn't at least half being returned?  Also, are you communicating with the parents, or with the kids, who want to forget school once they walk out the door?

  

LOL.  I don't need public schools to teach my kid responsibility or discipline.  Did you?  Come on, that's just silly.  Your kids needed homework to teach them how to be responsible and finish a task on time?  Yikes.

I'm with ya' there.  I much rather use "homework" time to take my daughter to the farm sanctuary that we volunteer at and teach her about real life work and responsibility.  Since she wants to be a Vet when she grows up, that type of learning is more important than homework, which ends up just being busy work to her. 

 

 

Unfortunately, I think there are more poorly trained parents than teachers and I have come to think that the schools see their role as "parental replacements".  The same is true for many day-care and after-school care facilities.  In many cases, they are correct (which is very sad).

With as many kids as they need to deal with, a one-size-fits-all solution is the easiest solution.  It may also be the best on average.  We know, though, that no individual child is that average.  It makes it hard to find the sweet spot.  the teacher only has so much time too.

Having said all that, I still think that homework isn't the answer.  It is especially not the answer if you are not telling the child what the purpose is.  If you are sending home homework to teach responsibility and time management or whatever; rote work isn't the answer.  What type of job are you preparing the kids for?  What expectations are you setting for adulthood?

As for Try being a single parent with multiple kids, multiple jobs, laundry, shopping, doctors, etc.  Quality time is hard to come by and fighting over rote homeworks doesn't count.

First of all I never used the school as a replacement to help "discipline" my kids. I happen to think it's a good thing for a child to be responsible for a task outside the home that has nothing to do with Mom and Dad. Someday they will have to answer to a boss and anything they learn inside or outside the home up until that time will serve them well later on. So both are important. It starts at home, yes, but what they learn outside the home is just as important as inside especially in lieu of dealing with other personalities and expectations.

Time management and discipline are just as important lessons as learning and "cementing" the concepts taught that day.



It's all about priorities and time management. I was basically a single parent from Jan-April every year which is most of the school year. My husband wasn't around to help with schoolwork or any other household chore. I had three kids in three years. I had laundry, doctor appointments etc. What about the parents out there who are HomeSchooling 7 kids? You think they don't have laundry and cooking?

It's all about time management and discipline that you teach your kids. They learn from watching you. Of course if you can't do this, most likely your kids won't get it either.

KFC-- You've made this comment before (about being like a single parent) and it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it really strikes me as "one-up-manship" ("I could do it why can't you?"). There is a huge difference between what you did and being a single parent -- your husband still LIVED with you and you could see and communicate with him on a daily basis. While he chose to be more involved with work than he was with his family, in a pinch he could be there to offer some support or do things that needed to be done. He was also providing for your family. A single parent often doesn't have someone out making cash for them -- they have to make ends meet all by themselves and so time becomes a very limited commodity.

shadesofgray

The point wasn't single parenting. I'm not comparing myself to a single parent. The main point was homework surrounded by a myriad of other activities going on in a busy household.

I know many totally single parents who manage to help their kids with homework surrounded by working, laundry, cooking and whatnot. I chose instead to draw on my own experiences doing these same activities while helping my kids with homework not relying on another adult to help me because he basically needed me to handle these things.

I'm not saying it was easy. I'm saying it was work but it can be done successfully.

You don't, but if schools DIDN'T do these things--like homework, or teaching kids how to not beat the crap out of each other on the playground, well, I'm sure society at large would come up with some reason to continue to hate public education.

EVERYTHING is the school's fault. The increasing number of criminals. Violence on the rise. Teenage pregnancy.

I'm all for families taking more repsonsibility raising their kids. Sex education? Character education? I don't think we should have to "waste" time on those in school, because families should talk to their kids about sex and teach their kids to do the right thing. But the fact of the matter is, a percentage of the population DOESN'T do that, and the excess gets pushed off onto the educational system. We get to pick up where families leave off.

It sure is wonderful.

I am thankful for what the teachers do.  I'm thankful for what you are doing here and in your classroom..  I just wish you didn't have to do it.  

As an aside . .I would be curious if you asked your fellow teachers, administrators, and district folks the same question you asked us.  What were there answers?  If possible . . do some research and start pushing for a district policy.  You could be a heroine to hundreds of students (and me).

Zubaz~

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words.

Honestly, I don't know of a teacher at my school that doesn't assign homework. I think its a generally expected thing. I will make a point to ask though. I know that nearly all teachers require reading for the Book It program through Pizza Hut. I required it before Book It started, but it was just an assumption that it would be done. I didn't require it to be documented like I do for Book-It.

I suppose it's awful that I require kids and parents to take the time to write down what they read and how long they read for each night. God forbid there be an expectation.

 

Uh...it sure looked like you were comparing yourself to a single parent.  Sure, you were a stay at home Mom that didn't get a bunch of support from her husband.  That is nothing at all like these women who have no support at all and work their butts off to give their kids a decent life, or possibly even just to give them basic necessities.  Not all people live in ideal conditions that even allow them much time at home with their kids.  You talk about laundry and chores like that is the stuff that single parents worry about.  These people are working 40+ hours a day and deal with *everything* in their household.  Every weight of the world is on their shoulders.  The last thing they need is to have their kid fail a grade because they couldn't help them do busy work after school.

Homework is not the highest priority to a single parent.  They have to worry about housing, food and clothing first.  Then they have to worry about keeping their kids safe and secure while they juggle work, chores, appointments and family time. 

Even families that need 2 incomes to live (yes, some people only have a minimum wage potential) run into the same kind of issues.  Many immigrants need two incomes at minimum wage to be able to provide basic support for their families.  Not only do they have limited time, but they also aren't always able to help their kids at all.

Sure, you can't have a "one size fits all" solution, but you do have to look at the way society is right now, look at the typical family and then make a logical assessment.  Raising kids in 2007 isn't the same as even 10 years ago.

You have so much negativity toward teaching...why are you even a teacher?  When you ask comments from parents, and you get a view contrary to your own, you get very defensive.  Do you actually want other opinions, or are you simply looking for validation?

I suppose it's awful that I require kids and parents to take the time to write down what they read and how long they read for each night. God forbid there be an expectation.

I'm going to assume sarcasm and frustration here. Why not? You're not teaching my kids.

"These people are working 40+ hours a day and deal with *everything* in their household."

Did you mean 40+ per week, or were you exaggerating for effect?

Hehe- yeah, I meant per week.  That's what I get for posting pre-coffee!

I was going to say, wow, that's a lot more work than I do!

I don't think it's awful at all Marcie. I think it's great that you have put the bar a bit higher and expect them to reach it. I would much rather see a teacher do that than put it too low with no expectations at all.



My best friend now and then is a single parent of two girls. Her girls being the same age as my sons. We are very close. Believe me, I know what it's like to raise children alone. If you notice, I always use qualifiers when I say I compare myself (in any way) to single parenting. I know what the differences are. This is nothing more than a chance to jump on my back just for the sake of doing so and adds nothing to the discussion.

BTW...I was ONLY a stay at home mom till my youngest went to school full time. Other than that, I worked 9-3 everyday all thru their growing up years. But I still managed to help (as needed) with HW. It was their work after all, not mine. I did very little. Basically all I did was make sure they had time to do it.