As I said (and you too),it's clearly down to personal preference,just because you don't like a skin doesn't mean it is substandard or not as good as the old days,it just means that YOU don't like it.
So are you saying that the none master skinners skins just aren't good enough for you?Because if you are then you know what the solution is,make your own or buy Master skins.If on the other hand you think it is unfair to have to purchase skins I really don't know what to say apart from look around you,stuff costs money,and in the case of the master skinners here it is well deserved in my opinion.
  

I don't read his posts as being unfair.  Just that Stardock (and the skinners they've hired) are killing thier base of users by only having the great skins for pay.

I disagree with him on his definition of great skins and his assertion that it will kill the user base.

I'd be willing to bet the user base hasn't decreased in recent memory.

Jeffrey, I took the time to go back and read your replies. They were put together with thought and opinion. Then I read the rest of the replies that dealt with yours.

I am left with one overiding theme. You don't want anything to change. When you first came to Stardock and WB things were a certain way and you liked it, trust me you are not alone in that thinking. Now some years later things have changed, alot of us here feel for the good. Don't get me wrong it's fine to want things to always stay where and how they first started. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

I will agree that not all change is good. For instance over the air TV, used to be no more than four or five channels to choose from. Without cable or satellite you now can get upwards to 10 channels and in some cases more. Problem I have is that the so called major networks are all now showing reality programs. Not an improvement as far as I can see. So I have satellite services. In other words, things change, we move on.

What I like about all that has happened here and elsewheres is that my ability to choose has not been taken away from me. Much more important than anything else that has been posted here.

Jeffrey, choose what you want and move on. If you choose to stay here, great, if not that's your choice.

Have a great day.   

The Master Skin process was designed to help encourage new skinners to get into skinning.

I think there's a major variable being ignored: Most of the good skins we speak of in the past are made by people who have left or no longer have hobby time to justify continually making them.

Like anything, new people need to rise up.  Master Skins is one way to encourage this because only someone with MASTER access can make them which requires a great deal of effort and having demonstrated their capability and passion over the course of time to make their way up.

There is a significant misconception if someone thinks that Treetog and Alexandrie and Essorant and all the other long long LONG time skinners are going to simply continue to crank out amazing skins indefinitely.

Like all hobbies, once you get to a certain level, it becomes work at which point it's not a hobby. Master skins encourage skinners who have reached a certain level to still makes skins even when it's not a hobby.

We need an incentive to get NEW artists into skinning. Master Skins is that carrot.

btw, does anyone else see the irony in discussing this in a news item announcing the second (in less than a week) free skin from Stardock Design?

Fair point Zubaz,I get your drift and I have to agree with you that it is not killing the user base.There are too many up and coming skinners for that to happen.  

I also got a chuckle out of that Brad.

Certainly do.  
There's no pleasing some people.  

  

I thought it was ironic too until I realized the main point he is making is that supposedly ALL the good skinners are under Stardock mind control.

Well, we all know that to be true!  

*I* am still free.

Wait . . . just a minute . . maybe I'm *not* a master skinner 

  

I'm not saying anyone is under mind control, just that the incentive for them to produce master skins is greater than that of free skins and thus the balance has changed. It is people stretching my words with comments like "mind control" that really make me appreciate posters with an understanding open minded tone like Philly0381 and Zubaz. You can disagree but I would appreciate it if people didn't put words in my mouth.

As far as irony is concerned... it is not about the number of skins it is about which skins I personally prefer. I personally find it strange that they find irony in something that is somebody elses opinion. There is no irony, it is an opinion you agree or you disagree either is fine.

Perhaps I'm just being a bit too cynical and pessimistic, and perhaps I'm spending too much time reminiscing about the good ol' days.

I'm not going anywhere 'till my OD subscription runs out anyway, I'll reevaluate then I guess.

I understand the idea behind the carrot, I think it is faulty, but I understand what frogboy is saying. The whole idea behind a carrot is that it has to be something attainable or just out of reach to keep you intrested, if it is too far out of reach it doesn't work as a carrot. Try putting a carrot 2 miles in front of a horse and see if he runs for it. The only way someone would make it to 6 years or however long it takes is through enjoying the process. While I can see the validity of having masters skins to keep the old skinners skinning(but that could be done if Stardock payed them directly), in my opinion having master skins does absolutely nothing to get new skinners into skinning. For this I think you need a better carrot. I hope this can be taken as constructive criticism because that is how it intended, I say this because I do hope to see more new skinners.
From the carrot comment it seems like the master skins idea was like throwing on a band aid before actually knowing what the injury was, and that scares me. While seeing the current "masters" leave would be very sad indeed, it must also be considered that an event like that is what allows a newer skinner to step up and fill the void, that is a very real carrot. Please people don't take this the wrong way, I don't want anybody to leave. All that I am saying is that if the master skins program was designed to fix a problem, perhaps the root cause of the problem needed a little bit more analysis.

I dont see why Master status wouldn't be a good incentive for someone to start skinning, I'll be honest with you, financial gain and the enticement to be my own boss is exactly why I took initiative to start skinning years ago, and that was before people even thought about selling skins, In fact I was the first to sell a non-WB "Visual style."

Nowadays in the world of multimedia, google and a wealth of tutorials the learning the "trade" is infinitely more streamlined. 6 Years doesn't apply.

Also, It wouldn't take as long these days, my case may differ as I got into it much earlier on. Moreover it's a way to motivate current skinners to be more productive and to improve on skills they may have otherwise overlooked. I know this because I personally know some of the skinners working towards it and who I might add are now additionaly motivated AND producing good skins.

Nothin wrong with the carrot or the reasoning behind it. It's worked and it's working.. just fine. I ask you to be open minded.   

It took you 19 paragraphs to make that completely obvious point? I don't think so.

As a skinner, yes my feelings are hurt but I am not barking back because of that. I just think you are wrong.

Forgive me if I analyze your analysis.

You started by blaming Stardock for the quality of skins that are being released by some Master Skinners (Stardock Design).

By questioning the quality of the work that is being released and blaming Stardock, are you not saying that the Stardock Design team doesn't care about their reputations? In a long winded way you are saying that they have sold out and therefore cannot think for themselves anymore. Hence the mind control comment. It is called hyperbole. It's all over the internet. Please get used to it.

1 year ago we had 3 premium skins to choose from as subscribers. Now we have many. How exactly has the Master Skinner system harmed anything? People cried for years for more premium skins. They finally got what they asked for. They aren't bad skins. I guess they just aren't what you had hoped for. Understandable. Noone has ever made a skin that met my taste perfectly, except myself.
I started skinning so I could match my personal taste.

Jefferey, See if you can answer this 1 question in 1 sentence.



When it comes time to reevaluate, what has to happen between now and then for you to resubscribe?

Thanks Mike. Go Yanks! (I guess Sox fans can't spell thanks.)  Cappy714

    

If the product continues to evolve, and there is a continuous influx of new free content that meets my tastes and also takes advantage of the product's new features then I will resubscribe.

It is the amount of free content that meets my tastes as of late that has me worried.



I can't believe you actually counted my paragraphs, lol. If you go back and read, the majority of what I wrote is in reply to what other people wrote and not necessarily pertaining to the main point.

As a long term customer I am concerned with quality of the content that will continue to be available. My personality is such that I would rather debate the issues that concern me than just sit by and hope for the best. I'm sorry if that offends some people, but without discussion there is no progress. As to hyperbole, just because it's all over the internet doesn't make it a good thing, or even well mannered. I didn't like Stardock's decision to do master skins from day 1, I don't expect the master skinners to agree with me as they have a vested interest. Like somebody said stuff costs money, well I have many hobbies, desktop cutomization is one very small chunk. There is a limit to how much I am willing to spend on each hobby.

I really with all my heart hope that I am wrong. I hope that master skinners continue to provide awesome free content for their fans as well as master skins. I don't know any of them personally nor do I know about what arrangement they have with Stardock, if I did I probably wouldn't be worried. As long as Stardock and master skinners know that there are people out there who are worried about the future, then that is enough for me.

Jeffrey, I have to say that you have made your point as to what you want to see provided here as free content.

I'm left with this one thought, by defination, Premium and Master should be better then regualr or free. That doesn't mean the the work done by the skinner is inferior or less than good on a free skin.

As I wrote before, things do change, hopefully the standard of quality of all skins does not. You have to choose now what you are willing to accept. Understand that alot of use here enjoy and appreciate all the skins that are made available by the skinners, whether free or not.

I haven't mentioned this before but I am not a skinner, but I love customizing my desktop. We all start with a WB and WP and from there we add lots of other things that tend to make are desktops somewhat unique, and usually far from the original theme of the skinner. Some may say that we screw things up, others say we are showing our talent.

Have a great weekend.  

What can you do to encourage new skinners to create new work?

Stardock has done their part by rewriting SKS to be less overwhelming so new skinners can create work more easily.  They've also made sure that these hobbyists have a way to continue making such great skins.

Your complaint is that the new order will lower the amount of free, great skins.  What you still fail to get I think is that not only masters can make free, great skins.  Any one can if they spend the time learning.  I've enjoyed being here over the years seeing good artists become great.



You are setting to different sets of criteria here.  Stardock makes the product which *has* continually evolved (and given the skinners more things to skin).  The community is the source for almost all the new free content.  As to meeting your tastes . . nuthin' anyone can do about that but you.