Can you go to heaven without accepting Christ?

What are your thoughts on this?

Yes,

If the answer was no, then all the believing Israelites pre-messiah would have been doomed?

Interesting topic though.

No, they believed in Christ by faith. They looked forward as we look back. No difference. All must accept Christ to get into heaven. Or all must accept the "Messiah that was to come" to gain entrance into heaven.

There's no getting around the cross. Many try but it can't be done.

Actually if you look back at the Passover you'll see a picture of the cross. Here's a verse to consider from Exodus 12:22.

"And you shall take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the lood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel (top) and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason..."

Jesus said he was the "door." Here in Exodus we see them putting blood all around the lintel of their doors. Picture the door with blood all around it. Picture Christ on the cross with blood dripping down. Christ was wearing a crown of thorns (very important). Jesus was wearing the curse of the earth on his head (Gen 3)and from his head blood dripped down just like it did from the top of the doors in Exodus.

Imagine Christ on the cross with blood dripping down as his hands are stretched out. Blood coming from the top and the sides as blood dripped from his head and his hands.

Draw a picture of a door with blood on it. Go ahead. Draw it. Then put a cross in the middle of the doorway and you'll see a picture of Christ right there in the Passover. There is no going thru that door without getting blood on you. There's no gaining entrance into heaven with washing yourself in the blood of the lamb first.

Besides all this Jesus said himself....

"I am the door, by me if any man enters in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

There's no getting around that door/cross.

only mere speculation KFC. There is no specific concrete evidence that they believed in the Messiah to come. Only the prophets could see that there are two comings of Messiah which weren't clearly depicted until after the Second Babylon.

KFC, I don’t see it that way, I see Passover as just a symbolic act to prepare the world for the coming of the Christ.
The crucifixion of Jesus was the act of Passover for all the people, Jews and Gentiles. Jesus was the innocent Lamb of God without blemish, slaughtered and his blood put upon our temples to mark our temples as a house that belongs to God thus keeping the angel of death from us.




Ah, but there is my young friend. Which takes us back to Pauls letter to the Romans chapter 2 verses 10-16
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


This is sort of a back door for those that deserve to be hin heaven but never heard the word of God or the Gospel of Christ.

I agree with you here Paladin77. When Passover was commanded in Egypt there was no, "Do this with the faith of the coming Messiah." Yes I will agree that we can better recognize WHO the Messiah is as a result of Passover but the focus of Passover was not about faith in Messiah in my view.

This isn't a backdoor at all Paladin. The Gentiles were not under the law as they were not given the law. The Jews were. Only the covenants and promises were given the Jews (9:4).

Look at v12 again. It's saying that the Gentiles will not escape judgment, but their judgment will not be on the basis of the Mosaic Law. That's it.

What you are saying Paladin and AD contradicts ALL of scripture if you believe there is another way into heaven. For just an example:

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to EVERY ONE that believes. Romans 10:4.

"Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is NONE other name under heaven given among men whereby we MUST be saved." Acts 4:12

In Paul's day the Judiazers were trying to convert the Gentiles to Judaism. Paul was saying they were all in the same boat. Without Jesus, Jew or Gentile all will perish. The Jews felt the law was going to save them but repeatedly Paul told them that was not so. He said this in 3:20

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

The only way a person can be justified is by the blood of the lamb. In the Passover it pointed to Christ. When Christ died that was it. No more sacrifices had to be made. He was the end of the sacrificial system. He was the substance in place of the shadow. The Old Covenant was meant to be temporary.

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then shold no place have been sought for the second." Heb 8:7.

No, I agree with you AD. But the Passover was to be a memorial of what God had done for them. It had a deeper meaning which the Jews might not have recognized...I agree. But if you go back to before the first passover you'll see God say this:

"Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the Lord and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egypians and I will rid you of of their ondage and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments." Ex 6:6

You'll see the reason why 4 cups were used right here in the service of the Passover. We see these cups just before Christ gave his own life as the lamb. You'll see this in Luke 22:20,42. In v20 Jesus said:

"Likewise also the cup after supper saying This cup is the new testament in my blood which is shed for you."
in v42 he says:

Father if you be willing remove this cup from me, nevertheless not my will but thine be done."

This last cup was the cup of redemption. Christ was going to take the cup and redeem the people. The OT Passover was all a perfect picture of this.

Both the Passover and the Cross of Christ point to redemption. The former from bondage to the Egyptians and the latter from the bondage to sin. The former was a shadow of the second.

But Moses later did tell the Israelites:

"The Lord your God will raise up to thee a Prophet from the midst of thee of thy brethren like to me, unto him you shall listen." Deut 18:15

They were waiting for Him to show up and when Christ came they inquired if he might be "The Prophet." John 1:21, 7:40-42 So obviously Moses was teaching them about the Messiah to come right there in the wilderness.

I understand your point however again this is after they left Egypt. When they were commanded about Passover they weren't instructed to believe in 'Christ' by faith as you stated. The 4 cups came much later through the Oral Law.

Your claim is/was:



Deuteronomy wasn't even written yet while they were still in Egypt. Granted after many of the prophet's writings we see the 'deeper' meaning but your claim is that they believed in Christ by faith and that is how they accepted Christ to enter heaven. Your points are still only mere hindsight speculated assumptions.

True but the reason for the passage was at the time the new converts were told that they had to be subject to the law. It was the passage that freed us from the yoke of the law.



I suggest you read it again, you will find that they don't conflict at all.



See, this is the trick. You are missing the point and reaching for dogma to fill in the gap. Really read what it says and see it for what it really is. Yes, you are partially correct, but I want you to think deeper.

Yes, I agree with you here, but it doesn't give them a free pass into heaven without Jesus either.



hahahahh I know this scripture quite well but....can you give me a hint? Deeper thinking is a good thing....  but I'm all deepthinked out...I think.

Hey but I am not into DOGMA!!! That's a bad word to me Paladin   

I never said it did, you need to read it through. you are still missing the point.



Ok, here it is. The purpose of this post was to make people see that yes, you need Christ to get into heaven, but God left an out for those that have not heard the world of the lord, or the Gospel of Christ.

Here let me spell it out for everyone.
If you have never heard the word of God, never heard the Gospel of Jesus the Christ, and you have lived as if you are a Christian in the ways that count, such as not being a hypocrite to the beliefs you hold, not taking advantage of others, helping people that are weaker then you among other things then you get to go to heaven. The trick is that would leave out most of the world. This is why we were commissioned to go forth and preach the word so everyone will have the chance to have their sins forgiven and enter the kingdom of heaven. Once a person hears the word of God the loophole is closed.

So, yes, KFC, YOU have to accept Christ as your savior in order to be redeemed. Those that have never heard the word and have lived an honest life can get into heaven just as you can. God thought of everything and every situation. God is not as ridged as the secularists make him out to be but even they under the God’s good grace would not be allowed into heaven since most of them are hypocrites.

As Christians we are judged by our life and redeemed because of our faith as unknowing Gentiles they are judged on the totality of their life and how they conform to the rules they claim to live by. You won’t find many of them making it into heaven but the chance is there just as it was for the Jew before Christ came on the scene. Find fault with any of this KFC?