DA-1: Buddhism, suicide of the soul?
from 
JoeUser Forums
JoeUser Forums
First, I want to share some rule of the DA (Devil's Advocate) articles. DA articles are hypothicals. They are points of debate that do not necessarily represent my views. They are exercises in debate as well as generators of new thought. This is not for bashing. This is not for crying. This is for fair, balanced debate over issues that might or might not be fair. So I don't want to hear personal attacks. We'll see how this one goes, if need be, I'll revise the rules for the next one until we can come to an understanding on how to work these DA articles.
----------------------------------------------------
DA-1
Buddhism, suicide of the soul?
I have to wonder if Siddhartha didn't really just find a way to extinguish the soul.
1. While sitting under the Bodhi tree, Siddhartha was tempted by Mara, an evil deity who tries to tempt the him away from mediating, arguably because he was going to find enlightenment.
Siddartha was an extremely well-educated man, except when it came to matters of religion . Link Due to the prophecy that Siddhartha would either become a great king or a great religious leader, his father tried to keep from those matters dealing with religion. In many respects, Siddhartha was probably one the least knowledgable people on issues of religion. Therefore, it is highly likely that he would know very little about the nature of Mara other than regular hearsay which would probably describe Mara as an evil who tempts people. It would be likely that Siddhartha would label any deity who tried to keep him from mediating as Mara. What if a good deity came to stop Siddartha from something terrible? He would probably label that deity Mara as well.
Say for instance, we took the Jewish God (since it couldn't be the Jewish-Christian God due to the timeline) into effect as fully existent as He is to the Jewish people of then as well as today, and even the Christians of today. Now what if He came to talk Siddhartha out of meditating? Would God, a being of goodness and perfection, do something evil to tempt Siddhartha away from mediating? Or could it be that God went to Siddhartha petitioning him to stop because he would discover the way to commit spiritual suicide?
2. Buddhism states that nirvana is a snuffing out or extinguishing of the reincarnation. This is the goal of all who follow Buddhism. They are looking to end the wheel of samsara.
Buddhist don't like to use the terminology of the word "soul." When I asked them why, they respond that people will confuse the idea of what exists in Buddhism with that of the Judeo-Christian soul. However, something still is. And that something is reincarnated. That carry-over, that link, that importance of reincarnation is more-or-less a soul. Therefore, Siddhartha was searching and would find the way to extinguish the soul.
3. This is a break from Buddhism to allow for the actual extinguishing of the soul in a Judeo-Christian context.
God gave all men free will when He created each person. That free will is the ability to freely choose whatever we want to do while on this earth. We have the ability to commit suicide and destroy our life, ending the creation of God within us. Afterwards there might or might not be hell to meet with, however we do get that choice. We found a way to do it, and we can. If we found a way to destroy the soul, why would God forbid that? It would impede upon the gift of free will. In essence, it would destroy all free will. We would then have the ability to do something without the ability to choose to do it, as it would be limited by God. Then we could not be held responsible for our decisions if free will was damaged. It would then induce chaos. So, it seems as though we could choose to do if we found a way to do it. (We've found a way to execute much worse attacks against creation)
4. Buddha, after Siddhartha was enlightened to the way, refrained from teaching anyone else. He only did so afterwards because he was approached by one or more deities (depending on the source) asking him to teach mankind.
Interestingly enough, he never wanted to teach anyone else. He basically was coerced, or at least reasoned, into teaching how to do it. And in the end, the Buddha never exactly taught how to find enlightenment. He was very cryptic and offered vague pointers, but he seemed very careful about not instructing people too well. If he was enlightened and endowed with special knowledge that could end suffering forever, why would he refrain? Why would he only tell puzzles and riddles to the followers? What if, God agreed to let Siddhartha go ahead with spiritual suicide but asked him not to tell anyone how to do it? That might be ample justification for the Buddha to refrain completely at first, and then come to a way of how to tell people without telling people. Then he would be maintaining his agreement with God, at the same as letting people know that it is possible.
5. The Buddha announced the time and place of his death.
This is an easy feat if you are committing suicide. While it may seem very mystical, commiting spiritual suicide would remove the anime (the Greek word, not the Japanese word) from the flesh, thereby resulting in the apparent death of the body. The unseen would be the death of the soul.
With the suicidal death of the soul, all of the Buddha's promises come true. No more suffering. No more reincarnation. No more anything.
----------------------------------------------------
DA-1
Buddhism, suicide of the soul?
I have to wonder if Siddhartha didn't really just find a way to extinguish the soul.
1. While sitting under the Bodhi tree, Siddhartha was tempted by Mara, an evil deity who tries to tempt the him away from mediating, arguably because he was going to find enlightenment.
Siddartha was an extremely well-educated man, except when it came to matters of religion . Link Due to the prophecy that Siddhartha would either become a great king or a great religious leader, his father tried to keep from those matters dealing with religion. In many respects, Siddhartha was probably one the least knowledgable people on issues of religion. Therefore, it is highly likely that he would know very little about the nature of Mara other than regular hearsay which would probably describe Mara as an evil who tempts people. It would be likely that Siddhartha would label any deity who tried to keep him from mediating as Mara. What if a good deity came to stop Siddartha from something terrible? He would probably label that deity Mara as well.
Say for instance, we took the Jewish God (since it couldn't be the Jewish-Christian God due to the timeline) into effect as fully existent as He is to the Jewish people of then as well as today, and even the Christians of today. Now what if He came to talk Siddhartha out of meditating? Would God, a being of goodness and perfection, do something evil to tempt Siddhartha away from mediating? Or could it be that God went to Siddhartha petitioning him to stop because he would discover the way to commit spiritual suicide?
2. Buddhism states that nirvana is a snuffing out or extinguishing of the reincarnation. This is the goal of all who follow Buddhism. They are looking to end the wheel of samsara.
Buddhist don't like to use the terminology of the word "soul." When I asked them why, they respond that people will confuse the idea of what exists in Buddhism with that of the Judeo-Christian soul. However, something still is. And that something is reincarnated. That carry-over, that link, that importance of reincarnation is more-or-less a soul. Therefore, Siddhartha was searching and would find the way to extinguish the soul.
3. This is a break from Buddhism to allow for the actual extinguishing of the soul in a Judeo-Christian context.
God gave all men free will when He created each person. That free will is the ability to freely choose whatever we want to do while on this earth. We have the ability to commit suicide and destroy our life, ending the creation of God within us. Afterwards there might or might not be hell to meet with, however we do get that choice. We found a way to do it, and we can. If we found a way to destroy the soul, why would God forbid that? It would impede upon the gift of free will. In essence, it would destroy all free will. We would then have the ability to do something without the ability to choose to do it, as it would be limited by God. Then we could not be held responsible for our decisions if free will was damaged. It would then induce chaos. So, it seems as though we could choose to do if we found a way to do it. (We've found a way to execute much worse attacks against creation)
4. Buddha, after Siddhartha was enlightened to the way, refrained from teaching anyone else. He only did so afterwards because he was approached by one or more deities (depending on the source) asking him to teach mankind.
Interestingly enough, he never wanted to teach anyone else. He basically was coerced, or at least reasoned, into teaching how to do it. And in the end, the Buddha never exactly taught how to find enlightenment. He was very cryptic and offered vague pointers, but he seemed very careful about not instructing people too well. If he was enlightened and endowed with special knowledge that could end suffering forever, why would he refrain? Why would he only tell puzzles and riddles to the followers? What if, God agreed to let Siddhartha go ahead with spiritual suicide but asked him not to tell anyone how to do it? That might be ample justification for the Buddha to refrain completely at first, and then come to a way of how to tell people without telling people. Then he would be maintaining his agreement with God, at the same as letting people know that it is possible.
5. The Buddha announced the time and place of his death.
This is an easy feat if you are committing suicide. While it may seem very mystical, commiting spiritual suicide would remove the anime (the Greek word, not the Japanese word) from the flesh, thereby resulting in the apparent death of the body. The unseen would be the death of the soul.
With the suicidal death of the soul, all of the Buddha's promises come true. No more suffering. No more reincarnation. No more anything.
