Make Like a Tree & Leave?

So the Hindu guy will pray to all of his gods? Does the Senate realize how long that might take? I know people who can take hours to pray to just one God.

Does the Senate realize how long that might take?

Hey!  That is not a bad idea!  The more time they waste, the less harm they can do!  I wonder if we can get a Druid in for the next prayer.

Also, I believe the dropped car sales are more related to the interest rates getting higher. They don't have to sell as many cars to make a profit on their financing end of the deal.

Hey, good news. In 2006, Ford Motor Company posted a net loss of $12.6 billion. They had sales of $143 billion in autos, but the associated cost of sales was $149 billion. So, it actually cost them more money to sell the cars than they got for selling them. Their financial services revenue was down 29% as well, which is a huge part of why they posted a net loss.

It's the latter. Most American cars (hate to say it) suck. Back in the seventies, they knew how to make a long-lasting, reliable vehicle, but in the name of Almighty Dollar (sadly enough, the true God of America these days) they've cut corners and created a crappy car.

I love my Hyundai.

I am a bad American as well. When that little old lady from Pasedena totalled my truck, I did look at Fords, but my heart was set on a Toyota, and I got it for a great price. It is my 4th Toyota, and I have never regretted any of them.

seven cases of christian clerics losing their bids to express their own faith when leading the senate in prayer? other than those hoping for an opportunity to offer some sorta prayer rebuttal to counter the 'official' prayer of the day?

Mainstream Hinduism is monotheistic. The aspects or lesser gods - Shiva, Kali, Vishnu et al - are merely considered paths to understanding a single portion of the incomprehensible that is divinity. Catholics do a similar thing with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Protestants do it with God and Jesus. Only Jews and Muslims could really be said to be monotheistic if we reject the idea of aspect worship.

For someone whose schtick is religion I'm very surprised you don't know this!

And yes, Fords bite. There's no way I'd buy one if I could get a European, Japanese or even a Korean car for the same price.

They make great rally cars though, so I guess they're not awful if that's what you're into.

newsflash...all 3 american car companies lost money in the last period. gm lost more than ford. chrysler, a little less than ford. it had nothing to do with any group of yahoo's boycott. it had everything to do with the fact that american car compnies suck at designing cars people actually want and then have to give them away.

toyota made money in the same period,,,why? because they build cars people want to own. smae with the other japanese and korean makers.

by the way, every car company markets to the gay community. as does every bank and financial institution and most companies in most industries.

I am a bad American as well. When that little old lady from Pasedena totalled my truck, I did look at Fords, but my heart was set on a Toyota, and I got it for a great price. It is my 4th Toyota, and I have never regretted any of them.

They make Toyota's here in the US, you're still good.

Could have something to do with the US Constitution forbidding the establishment of an official government sanctioned religion. Like it or not there is no official religion in this country and a Hindu prayer in the Senate is just as legitimate as a Christian one or a Muslim one or a Jewish one.

Since it's founding the Senate has been opened primarily by Christian prayers, or at least deist prayers. One Hindu prayer is going to cause the country to explode in a cloud of fire and brimstone? I don't think so. We are a nation of many religions which is what the founding fathers intended.

For someone whose schtick is religion I'm very surprised you don't know this!

We don't worship three gods Cacto. We worship the same God as the Jews. The Jews just don't recognize Jesus. We worship ONE God "revealed" in three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not easily explained but the God of the OT is the same God of the NT. He came in the flesh. When you see the father, you see the son.

An update on the Hindu Prayer today......A former Navy chaplain says he was in the Senate gallery this morning when two Christians were escorted out of the chamber for disrupting the opening prayer given by a Hindu chaplain.

Gordon James Klingenschmitt says when he heard that the Hindu man was invited to give the opening prayer he went to the U.S. Senate in hopes of gaining equal access. On Tuesday, he went to the office of Senator Harry Reid (D-Nevada) office seeking permission to offer a Christian prayer in the Senate at some future date. Not being from Nevada, Klingenschmitt was turned away and directed to the office of one of his senators -- Hillary Clinton (D-New York) -- whose staff also reportedly declined his request.

The former chaplain says he then attempted to get an audience with Senate Chaplain Barry Black. "I went to Chaplain Black's office, and they must have known I was coming because they had already informed security not to let me in," he says. "And so they wouldn't give me an appointment with Chaplain Black. They said his personal calendar is booked until 2009."

He was there when everyone stood up including some Christians who prayed Christian Prayers basically asking God to have mercy on our Nation.

He explains what he then witnessed in the Senate chamber. "Would you believe that the security office immediately escorted them out and hauled them off to jail because they prayed in Jesus' name, out loud, when this other man was praying a Hindu prayer out loud?" he shares. "He was praying a prayer of idolatry, violating the First Commandment [which says] 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me," he continues. "In contrast, these Christian people, they stood up and they just prayed in Jesus' name."

Remember it's the 10 commandments displayed near the top of the U.S. Supreme Court not Hindu scriptures.

Did you know as you enter the Supreme Court courtroom the two huge oak doors have the 10 Commandments engraved on each lower portion of the door? Did you not know that there are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington DC? Hindu scriptures? Nope. Notta one.

"it cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded NOT by religionists but by Christians, NOT on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ." Patrick Henry.

We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the 10 Commandments of God."

James Madison, 4th President of the US also known as "The Father of Our Constitution.

and it can be seen by taking a stroll thru Washington and looking closely at our Government buildings that they made sure evidence of their beliefs were etched into granite and marble.

KFC, do you honestly believe they were escorted out because they were Christians?

From everything I've read, they were escorted out for loudly interrupting the prayer. The presiding officer of the Senate asked for order to be restored and they continued and were thus escorted out. They were charged with unlawful disruption of Congress. It is not okay to "shout" someone down in the Senate, regardless of the circumstances. I can not imagine that you would hold this same position had the roles been reserved. If a Hindu protester had tried to shout down Christian prayer, I would imagine you'd be in favor of the protester being ejected from the Senate Chamber.

This is a prime example of the Religious Right being intolerant of other religions. Hindu Americans are just as American as Christian Americans and should be allowed, undisrupted, to offer the opening prayer of their Government on occasion. Remember, Chaplain Black opens the Senate on most days with prayers invoking Jesus. You seem to be forgetting the first amendment entirely.

For those who are interested, here is a video of the events. They were certainly not "immediately removed." In fact, Senator Casey asked for order to be restored three times. This was nothing short of disrespectful. http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2957.html

I watched the video and wow, that was disgusting.

first amendment trumps the first commandment...which is exactly what was intended by those who drafted and ratified it.

every statistic and quote you offer to establish their beliefs anddevotion evidences that conclusion.

how else to explain the fact there is no mention of anyone's god in that document?

they forgot???

not exactly.

adorning the north and south walls are friezes depicting 18 great lawgivers: menes, hammurabi, solomon, lycurgus, solon, draco, confucius and octavian on the south wall; justinian, mohammed, charlemagne, king john, louis IX, hugo grotius, sir william blackstone, john marshall and napoleon on the north wall.

per the office of the curator of the supreme court of the united states, those 18 individuals were deliberately chosen to represent secular law:

Weinman's training emphasized a correlation between the sculptural subject and the function of the building and, because of this, [architect Cass] Gilbert relied on him to choose the subjects and figures that best reflected the function of the Supreme Court building. Faithful to classical sources, Weinman designed for the Courtroom friezes a procession of "great lawgivers of history," from many civilizations, to portray the development of secular law.
Note that Moses is not given any special emphasis in this depiction: his figure is not larger than the others, nor does it appear in a dominant position. Also, the writing on the tablet carried by Moses in this frieze includes portions of commandments 6 through 10 (in Hebrew), specifically chosen because they are not inherently religious. (Commandments 6 through 10 proscribe murder, adultery, theft, perjury, and covetousness.)

while those of you who purchase cars from foreign entities aren't really bad americans, i can't say the same for anyone celebrating the financial misfortunes of our economy. this is perhaps the most disgusting expression of anti-american sentiment i've seen posted on ju.

you'll be equally outraged should some members of the one, true and apostolic church try to recite the apostles' creed out loud hoping to drown out heretical rantings of the next evangelical protestant invited to offer a prayer?

Watched the video. Disturbing.

How those people believe they're doing God's will is beyond me. They're being divisive, and the spirit of contention is of the devil. If anything, they're having him as their master instead of Him who should be so.

Tex said it best with "disgusting". I would only add a "most" at the the beginning.

"Land of the Free", indeed.

Or maybe in these people's eyes it's "Land of the Free, as long as you agree with me."

Sounds pretty dictatorial to me.

Mainstream Hinduism is monotheistic. The aspects or lesser gods - Shiva, Kali, Vishnu et al - are merely considered paths to understanding a single portion of the incomprehensible that is divinity. Catholics do a similar thing with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and Protestants do it with God and Jesus. Only Jews and Muslims could really be said to be monotheistic if we reject the idea of aspect worship.

Eh, not quite.  Some view Hinduism as Monotheistic, as the lesser gods are merely paths to the one true supreme God.  So it is not like the trinity, but more like Angels and Arch Angels of the Judeo Christian religion.  Since they do not call them angels, but gods (lesser as they may be), a more accurate term is Henotheistic.

While Hinduism predates most of the Judeo-Christian religions, there is controversy about when it exactly was started.  Some place the date at about 4000 BC, which would make it in the same time frame as Judaism.  One school of thought places the initial tenets with a migration of Asian/European tribes that brought some of their religion down with them when they migrated to India (the heart of Hinduism), but others dispute that school of thought.  However, if true, it would open up the possibility that Hinduism is descendant from the same roots as Judaism, or at least the sprang up at the same time, from the same general area.

There are many similarities with Judaism and Hinduism, and many differences (just so the record is straight).  It could well be that the 2 did spring from the same source, just changed by different cultures, or that they are completely independant of each other and just a coincidence.  More likely, competing theories will continue as there are not a lot of written texts from early Hinduism, just a lot of oral history.

You might want to quote your sources in future, Dr Guy. It's clear you didn't write that.

On what you quoted:
I'm not too good at describing religious stuff. By aspect I meant the idea behind the trinity - 3 parts or faces of the same divinity. From what I understand in Hinduism each 'god' could be considered an aspect.

Of course famous Hindu myths like the Ramayana and others disassociate these aspects, but then again so does the bible disassociate God from Jesus and, to a lesser extent, the Holy Spirit.

I haven't really covered enough of the great texts of Hinduism to be sure, but the little I know from Balinese Hinduism does seem to point towards some expression of faith through aspected divinity.

Perhaps it will turn out I was being incredibly ignorant, but I dislike seeing religions smeared for worshipping multiple gods when that's not necessarily the case.

EDIT: The wikipedia article on henotheism suggests Hinduism could be considered polytheistic, monotheistic and henotheistic. I dunno which texts the good senator chose to reference, so I guess I'm too ignorant to comment on which Hinduism he professes or whether he's an insult to American's apparently self-apparent monotheism.

It is clear I did, with misspellings and all. While my knowledge is fairly old (I took the course in High school), I can google to see if it is more up to date.

However, (and yes, some of it was my interpretation of my knowledge of Hinduism), The trinity of Demigods - Rama, Vishnu, and Shiva - are more akin to the Archangels of the Judeo Christianity than of the trinity of "God, Jesus and the Holy spirit".

Perhaps before laying out unfounded accusations, you would do well to read what is said, and then try to find it on the internet. If you find what I wrote anywhere other than in here, I would be greatly surprised as - as I state - it is based upon my knowledge and my interpretation of said knowledge.

I guess I should be flattered that you took my writing to be so well as that I must have plagarized it. Perhaps if yours was as well written, we would assume the same.

Anti-American, eh? Financial misfortune? Well, if not knowing how much you need to charge for a car to make a profit is 'misfortune' and not 'stupid' I'm guilty. And celebrating the free economy helping to improve a company that needs it is in the American spirit. Because if they don't want to post similar 2007 results, they'll do something different.

cactoblasta posts #7 :




This shows that you neither understand the Catholic, Protestant nor the Hindu religion.

Hinduism is polytheistic, that is, Hindus worship many gods and goddesses. Jewish and Christian people view worship of any god or anything other than the One God as idolatry.

Christians believe there is only one God. In God, there are three persons, the Father, the SOn and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are one and the same God; they are not three Gods.