Bad Guys

from JoeUser Forums
With palms together,

Good Morning Everyone,



A morning news headline caught my eye: "Jet's Shredded, Kept Away From 'Bad Guys'". I read the article. It is about the shredding of the fleet of retired F-14 Tomcats which cost the US $38,000,000 each. But this was not what caught my eye. It was the reference to "Bad Guys". This phrase has become ubiquitous in military and para-military circles. In the case of the police, they tend to use it regarding what others call "suspects". Yet, there is a serious difference, isn't there?



Language is a powerful tool. We should be very careful with it. What does it say about our police when they approach a suspect as if they were a "bad guy"? Our system of law and order, justice, that is, is based on the assumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty by a court, not a cop.



Moreover, I wonder what "Bad Guy" is? Is a Bad Guy a person who fails to signal before turning? Or a person in a heated argument with her husband? Or the little old lady in the wheelchair being patted down at Airport Security?



Bad Guy is comic book language being mainstreamed by comic book minds. This is dangerous, as it can easily lead an officer to assume it is OK to violate the human rights of citizens, violate their integrity, their dignity, and their person. All in the name of protecting the very public they surveil for bad guys.



I remember the very moment it was time for me to get out of Child Protective Services. I was grocery shopping and noticed that every person I looked at with kids I consider a potential child abuser. Just so with karate. I had been teaching this art in a home dojo and noticed one day that every time a person approached me on the street, I formulated a defense strategy on the basis of "what if" they attacked me as I passed them.



Paranoia, plain and simple, yet I do not believe this is uncommon phenomenon and I believe it is enhanced by the sort of language we use when addressing those who might harm us or even simply disagree with us.



Our disciplined spiritual practice should be to see clearly, not through the filter of language or symbol, biased or not. To see clearly is to go beyond suspending judgement. It is to practice no judgement. How do we do this and remain safe? This is the most critical question facing us today.



The first thing we need to do is practice deeply and strongly. Zazen helps us see clearly, it helps us notice ourselves, our mental activity, and our assumptions. We can sweep them out like old leaves and dust. The second thing to do is learn that respecting others rights and integrity has a cost. We have forgotten that with our new first strike mentality. To wear a white hat means we must be willing to be vulnerable. Such a challenge this. We should practice with our fear, learn to see our opponents or "suspects" for the human beings they are and see their suffering. Perhaps if their suffering were remedied, they would not be the "Bad Guys" we frame them as. Its hard to be a bad guy when you have a job, food, a home, and a place in your community.



I know one thing. Seeing the world as dangerous is the most dangerous assumptions I ever held. And I know it was one of the most difficult to break through.



Practice with great effort.



Be well.
religion
1,789 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Hello LW, Nice to see your acerbic tone again. I don't know why those people did what they did. Neither do you. But to dismiss them as evil is far too simplistic and will never yeild solutions to the problems we face. In spite of what you assert, evil does not exist in the world apart from our actions, and those actions are caused by something. My guess is, in the case of terrorists, hate. Simple, right, Ms. Simple Thinker? So simple. Yep. Kill em all, or lock em up and forget habias corpus...But what causes people to hate? Will killing and endless prison end hate? I doubt it. Will it protect us? If you think so, you are clearly deluded.

Those Saudi terrorists did not have a place in their community. They were on the fringe. They were disenfranchised Saudis pissed off at the Saudi clan and the US and more than likely anyone who isn't a true believer. How to deal with them? Well, let's see, Mr. Bush and you thought we should make a war on them. Goodness. What a brilliant answer. As if that would do anything but justify their suicidal jihad. As I said above, when you don't fit its easy to be a bad guy. But then we got confused as to who "the enemy" was an invaded another country. And all those Muslims just love us now. Joy.

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Bad Guy is comic book language being mainstreamed by comic book minds. This is dangerous, as it can easily lead an officer to assume it is OK to violate the human rights of citizens, violate their integrity, their dignity, and their person. All in the name of protecting the very public they surveil for bad guys.


Hi Sodaiho,

Hypothetical situation: Two "guys" have just broken into your house, causing thousands of dollars worth of damage, have smacked your wife until bloody, and have tied you up and are getting ready to kill you...when the police whom your good neighbors had called arrive. Are they "bad guys"? Is your disciplined spiritual practice that you speak of going to mean no judgment?


Saddam was amassing WMDs and was willing to use them.


Saddam had not only amassed biological and chemicals but had already used them on his own people and upon his neighbors. Mass graves have been found. CNN even took video footage but won't show the truth on its stations.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
LW,

Lets stick to the knitting. Your original critique had to do with my suggestion that terrorists would be challebge to be terrorists if the were not hungry, had jobs, and had a place in community. Hate is the source of terrorism and comes from feeling disenfranchised, abused, or otherwise oppressed. I am not in any way suggesting that these are actual conditions, just perceived ones. For anyone to use a tactic, then, trhat would give evidence to the terrorist, just puts fual on the flame. And this, you call silly thinking?

You misread my post. I did not say we made war on the Hoiuse of Saud. I said we made war on terrorist...of course, as you point out so clearly, we were misdirected by that fine president George Bush, and istead of investing all those, what is it today (?) $440,163,000,000 and counting dollrs, on actyual terrorists and their reasons for being terrorists in the first place, we invade Iraq. Oh, now that is very clear thinking.

What makes you think you are living in the "real" world? Just what is that, anyway? The world of distortion and fear? Most human beings are kind and helpful, most are compassionate. Most want to hep in times of need. This is the real world, LW. We are mutually dependent on each other and the planet. That's the real world and the evidence is everywhere in your actual life.

Now, Lulipilgrim,

Hypothetical such as the one you spell out are bait. Let's see, you are a Christian, what would Jesus do? What do you think? Call em bad guys and attack them?

Are there bad people? No. There are people who do evil. They do this for a reason. They may be demented, tortured souls. They may be deeply fearful. They may be psychotic due to a clear problem with their brain chemistry. They may be angry. They may be poisoned by greed. We rarely attempt to understand the root causes of such human beings. Instead, we use quick and dichotomous mental constructs: good, bad. We react accordingly and create a mess in our own back yard.

Saddam was amassing WMD. OK. Where are they? And if he was? I guess we should attack Iraq. But then, so is North Korea, China, England, Russia, Pakistan, India, France, Israel, and the United States building vast stores of WMD. Your point? Meanwhile millions of people are dying from lack of clean water, food, AIDs, and other horriblethings while we spend our money on weapons of mass destruction and use them. Why? Because we think we are right to do so, entitled to do so, and perceive with an eye of self-interest..

Go back to St. Matthew. Read that wonderful Sermon on the Mount, and ask yourself how we measure against the advice of your savior.

Be well.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Hypothetical such as the one you spell out are bait. Let's see, you are a Christian, what would Jesus do? What do you think? Call em bad guys and attack them?


Are there bad people? No.


There are people who do evil. They do this for a reason


Instead, we use quick and dichotomous mental constructs: good, bad.


Go back to St. Matthew. Read that wonderful Sermon on the Mount, and ask yourself how we measure against the advice of your savior.

Be well.


Sodaiho,

I am well thank you and Happy Fourth to you and yours.

Sodaiho,

The Sermon on the Mount is so much at variance with all that our world holds dear that the world will come to crucify anyone who tries to hold up to it's values. Because Christ preached them, He had to die. Calvary was the price He paid for the Sermon on the MOunt.

Only mediocrity survives. Those who call black black, white white or bad bad are sentenced for intolerance or worse. Only the grays live.

Are there bad people? No.


There are people who do evil. They do this for a reason


Sodaiho, welcome to the gray world.



Hypothetical such as the one you spell out are bait. Let's see, you are a Christian, what would Jesus do? What do you think? Call em bad guys and attack them?


Yes, I think He would. We are to judge others actions based upon His Law. His law justifies self-defense of ourselves and our loved ones. He would then tell us to forgive those who would put us to death. To love those who hate us. To overcome evil with good. To bless those who curse us. To stop mouthing freedom until we have truth and love of God in our heart as the condition of freedom.


Your response could be applied to the Sermon on the Mount.

Let him come into the world which denies Absolute Truth which says that right and wrong, good and bad are only "dichotomous mental constructs", that we must be broad minded about vice and virtue and let Him say to them, "Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after holiness", that is after Absolute, after the Truth, which I AM, and they will in their broad mindedness give the mob the choice of Him or Barabbas; they will crucify Him with thieves, and try to make the world believe that God is no different from a batch of robbers who are His bedfellows in death. ---Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The Dhammapada: For hatred does not cease by hatred anytime: hatred ceases by love, this is an old rule." the Buddha

I live in gray.


______

This question regarding what Jesus would do fascinates me. Buddha was actually confronted by something like this. A murderer once was killing and maiming people. Buddha was warned not to walk from one town to another begging as was his custom, but he did anyway. The murderer approached him to attack him, but Buddha addressed him, received his pain, and offered him another path. That murderer, who collected the fingers of his victims, became one of Buddha's disciples.

I do not think the Sermon on the Mount was anything but the purest teaching of your God. And just as Job suffers in his testing, and Abraham his, to follow a disciplined spiritual path is not easy and the world very well might want to crucify you. So be it.

Great discussion, thank you!
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
I do not think the Sermon on the Mount was anything but the purest teaching of your God. And just as Job suffers in his testing, and Abraham his, to follow a disciplined spiritual path is not easy and the world very well might want to crucify you. So be it.


This is surely the wisest so far of all your posts!
Be well,
Peace
lula