CHILDREN are a Noise violation?

I can just visualize the family, happily playing in the backyard pool... while the elderly couple next door grits their teeth. And then complains to the police. And then takes the law into their own hands, reaching for the shotgun.

(The shotgun, ironically, making more noise than any children. But at least the noise will be over -- after the big bang...)

Sorry, my ramblings are getting dark.

I can picture the family too. It sounds like they live in a neighborhood where nothing exciting happens so people have to create the dumbest things to get riled up about, like loud children or someone painting their mailbox lime green.

And this is the world I have always fear since I was young of bringing any children into.

Teachers having sex with students
Abortions a dime a dozen
Worst Education system
Gangs running a muck
Terrible Park maintenance
Child predators thru the revolving door system
Parents killing their own children
Speeding thru neighborhood, running over kids and leaving the scene
Both parents working to pay the bills, no one to watch the kids
Daycares and baby-sitters abusing or ignoring kids on video
Constant violence in cartoons (Dragonball Z, Naruto, Xiolin Showdown, Pokemon, etc.)
Violent video games
Parents fighting at childrens games

This is just to name a few. And this is not even including children from countries like Iraq where they are mentally destroyed over the constant violence, the constant bombing, the constant displacement, the fear of dying, the fear of losing their families, the fear of never going back home.

This is the world we have created for our children and then we wonder why our children are more likely to become criminals, drug users, lazy, ignorant and worst of all dead before their time. It is depressing to spend most of the day hoping your child will make it thru the day unharmed before you get home to see them.

Teachers having sex with students -- public schools are only one educational option

Abortions a dime a dozen -- not in my house

Worst Education system -- because parents farm their children out to the government. Homeschooling is legal in all fifty.

Gangs running a muck -- ironically, in "poor" neighbourhoods, I believe because the welfare state gives them too much leisure time.

Terrible Park maintenance -- not the responsibility of the gov't, IMEABO. Next question

Child predators thru the revolving door system -- which is why you guard your children closely

Parents killing their own children -- again, not in my neighbourhood.

Speeding thru neighborhood, running over kids and leaving the scene -- parents should keep the kids out of the street. No excuse for this, but the best protection against idiots is to not have your kids where they are.

Both parents working to pay the bills, no one to watch the kids -- This is a CHOICE most families make. In the twelve years since our oldest was born, my wife has not ONCE had to work outside the home.

Daycares and baby-sitters abusing or ignoring kids on video -- see above

Constant violence in cartoons (Dragonball Z, Naruto, Xiolin Showdown, Pokemon, etc.) -- oh, I get this one. You mean as opposed to the violence in "traditional" cartoons like Popeye, Bugs Bunny, etc?

Violent video games -- again a choice parents make

Parents fighting at childrens games -- once again, a choice

My philosophy on having kids is this: If the only people having kids are the BAD examples, what do you think society will do -- improve or disintegrate? I believe if you view the world as a largely negative place that it is best to raise up children and teach them how to be positive influences in the world, builders instead of killers.

It's easy to focus on the negative, to focus on the problems. It's much harder but much more rewarding to focus on the positive, on ways to BUILD.

I believe that the sounds of children playing are just a small taste of what Heaven's going to be like. Sheer happiness and joy.

We're fortunate that we're in a neighbourhood that has a lot of small children. There are children running and laughing outside almost from the time to sun comes up to a time well past when it goes down again. And, other than the two girls who like to shriek like they're getting hurt (and cause us to run out and look regularly), it rarely bothers me. I'd heard the ladies on The View talking about this and my wife and I couldn't believe what we were hearing. How utterly ridiculous.

As for the size of families, my wife and I have noticed something. After putting our kids in the local public school system (one of the best in the state, and one of the best on the east coast), we noticed that our 4 kids put us on the far outside edge of the family size. Most of the families had one, MAYBE two kids. And looked at us funny. Our involvement in the homeschool groups in the area (which we are returning to this next school year for various reasons) gives us a different experience. Our four kids are among the SMALLEST families. A correlation on the value of family to the specific groups?

LOL, you're echoing part of our experience, Chaos. When we had four children, we felt in between. We were definitely large enough that smaller families kind of looked at us weird, but in the big families we hung around, we were one of the "small" families. Not quite big enough to fit in with the "large" families", not small enough to fit in with the small ones.

With our fifth, that changed. My new rule is, "when your family is large enough that you buy a van out of NECESSITY, rather than convenience, you qualify". Now that we have six, we're firmly entrenched in the large family culture (and have acquired the semi legend status that accompanies it...lol!)

Not when you can't afford paid for schools.



Not in mine either



Again, if you can afford it. Besides it takes away the "learning to get along with others and having fund as a kid" part.



Again a financial problem.



State parks? Funny, almost every park around here is run by the local Gov't so I don't get your point.



I guess I could always quit my job, have my wife quit my job and stand by my childs side 24/7. That way there is 0 chance of anyone doing them harm, right?



While the first part may be right, you failed to point to situations where children are not necessarily playing on the streets but in some situations crossing it.



Yea, I guess everyone should be able to make $25 easily and be able to pay everything with a single paycheck. Well back to reality.



See above.



I'm sorry, I was trying to avoid having to post almost every single cartoon out there. I was pointing at the most recent stuff but those work just as good. Thanks Gid.



Yes, but it's still there.



Again it still happens.



I'm sorry to ask but are you a parent Gid? I mean I don't know, that is why I ask because if you are then I have to wonder:

Are you saying that you have your kids home schooled, living in a gang free, welfare free neighorhood, where all the parks are maintained by the local people, and you child is in your sight 24/7, and no child abusers live, your children have never laid a foot outside the front door with other kids in the neighborhood, while daddy makes great money so mommy can stay home all the time, while never watching anything on TV that is not Blue's Clues, Kipper the Dog or Max and Ruby, never have played a somewhat violent video game and no one ever gets mad if their kids lose a game? If this is true I commend you for doing what would seem impossible in this real world we live in. Maybe you can tell me where this fantasy place is and how much an hour I have to make in order to live this great dream of yours. In the mean time I will do my best to keep child molesters, sexually hungry teachers and violent kids away from my children while keeping them locked up in the house so that no out of control driver, a friend with a video game, a broken seesaw and a sore loser parent won't hurt them, all this while my wife teaches them their future education while I work 2 jobs to pay the bills and hope to see even 5 minute of them before they goes to sleep. Oh and I will block my cable box up until 8:00 so that when they goes to sleep we can finally watch something without influencing their minds in any way.



Well you have just decribed the reason why this country is heading towards disaster. Because it is easier and this country loves easy, just look at the "as seen on TV' ads and those "paid programming shows.

Only of six kids, Charles, I wouldn't know jack.

Yes, my kids are homeschooled, yes they live in a gang free neighbourhood. We live in a fairly rural area. No, our parks aren't maintained by the local people, but they should be, and they's in our sight most of the time, yes. Child abusers live here, but we're judicious about who we have our children hang out. I don't make great money, but yes my wife IS a stay at home mom (it's called "choices", you might want to study up on it some time), and our children don't watch regular broadcast TV much (we usually choose videos).

As for homeschooling being expensive, that's a myth, Charles. One you would do well to investigate. GOOD homeschooling curriculum can be had for under $200 a year (free, if you're industrious, but I'll admit to having grown lazier on this over the years; it's better to shell out a couple Benjamins to have someone else prepare the course work than to prepare it myself). As to socialization, that's a myth as well. If there's even a shred of questioning homeschooling your children, Charles, I would encourage you to visit a homeschool conference or support group event; you'd be surprised at how much interaction there is within homeschool groups.

We do without quite a few things for my wife to stay at home, I won't deny it. And I make nowhere CLOSE to $25 an hour. But in my view, I'm investing in my family instead of the stock market. And the returns are greater.

Chaos:

After putting our kids in the local public school system (one of the best in the state, and one of the best on the east coast), we noticed that our 4 kids put us on the far outside edge of the family size. Most of the families had one, MAYBE two kids. And looked at us funny.

Same here. Going to family nights at the school is always an adventure in disdain, as these working parents roll up in their Escalades, Yukons, or Lexuses (Lexi?) and get their one child out of the back seat. Then they look at us funny as we roll up in our non-pimped out Chev Venture and all four of our kids get out and we herd them into the school. And four is not a big family -- just by the world's standards. But screw those guys... we're not giving any of them back. They're fed and clothed and happy.

Charles:

Not when you can't afford paid for schools.

We have our 11-year-old in a charter middle school, run by the county and totally free. And he's getting a superior education, oriented towards math, science, and technology. In fact, we plan to put our other kids into that school as soon as they reach middle school. Home schooling is not an option, because though my wife is at home she lacks the patience to effectively teach our kids. At least she's honest with herself.

Gid:

We do without quite a few things for my wife to stay at home, I won't deny it. And I make nowhere CLOSE to $25 an hour.

Agreed. My wife has gone to work for a while when we were first married, to make ends meet... but now that ends are meeting just fine, there is no reason for her to go outside the home to find work. As far as we're concerned, we decided early on that we don't want other people raising our kids. And we'd make the sacrifices necessary to see that through.

Chaos: After putting our kids in the local public school system (one of the best in the state, and one of the best on the east coast), we noticed that our 4 kids put us on the far outside edge of the family size. Most of the families had one, MAYBE two kids. And looked at us funny. Same here

And here.  Guess we are the worst kind of people - to actually have and love more than 2 children.

Stop reproducing, people. You're breaking the mold.

Look I know you mean it all in a good way. You're a smart guy and not a jerk like some on here when they open their mouths. I'll admit that I could freshen up on some things but it's not always an opinion for me. I've been with my childrens mother for 10 years now and she only started working recently because it just became to overwhelming for me. Working 2 jobs, barely getting to see my kids while she bored herself to death wanting to do more with her life. You know how women are these days, SAHM is almost like put me down to many of them now a days. Maybe there are other means of educating my kids, it wouldn't hurt to find out. But working all day doesn't make it easy. Because of my financial situation trying to find a decent rent in a good neighborhood is easier said than done, and help from the local Gov't is about as easy to get as money from a money tree. I have always found myself in the middle, I either make too much to qualify for help or I don't make enough but I have no money in the bank and have bad credit. It's not easy when it's so hard to get those things one needs at the moment while at the same time those who come here illegally seem to have it literally thrown at them almost being begged to take it.

Did you know that I went to a work force agency that refused to help me cause I was a citizen? They claimed they specialized in immigrants (no specifics on illegal or not). Keep in mind I live in Florida where Cubans reaching Florida shores are a dime a dozen and Mexicans have found their way here quite easily as well.

I want the best for my family and I am working hard to give it to them and I will not give up till I can stay aways the best that I can from that list I posted in reply #3. But in my situation at the moment, those are realities I have to keep an eye out. I can only watch my childrens every move for so long without disrupting my life, I do have to go when nature calls you know.

I know you mean well and did not mean to come across as rude or a jerk. I simply pointed out what many children have to deal with these days that they have no control over. We're depending on parents who don't always do the right thing. That's why we have laws in this country, because the average person is not smart enough to not do it by their own will.

Six? How do you do it? I only have 2 and I feel I have enoug, though I probably would like to try for a girl, but if I get a boy oh well, my genes will just spead even farther.

Because of my financial situation trying to find a decent rent in a good neighborhood is easier said than done a work force agency that refused to help me cause I was a citizen Keep in mind I live in Florida

Have you thought about leaving Florida and getting to a lower-rent state? Preferably one without hurricanes and alligators, too? But that may just be my anti-Florida bias coming out. You might find what few dollars you have will go farther in the Midwest, including Missouri or Gid's home state of Texas.

Just to have someone on the other side here....

 

I don't think that normal kids playing would generate a complaint but the article is more than a little vauge. I have absolutely lived next to people who exert zero control over their kids and I should have mad e acomplaint. There is a difference between kids playing and occasionally yelling and kids who are in the yard all day every day screaming at the top of their lungs while their parents do nothing.

 

There have to be reasonable limits even with kids (the same as steroes, car work, etc...). Just as the neighbor has to execpt a level of noise from the neighbor kids the parent has to exert a level of control over that noise.

 

Anyone who doesn't think a couple of kids can't generate enough noise to merit police intevention has never met my nephew "Bomber" or lived on an Army post where children are allowed to roam neighborhoods like feral beasts.

Greywar

I agree that there should be limits. I do my best to keep my kids from being too noisy. They can be pretty loud, but I expect them to be somewhat noisy when it comes to things like pools. When was the last time you saw kids quiet in a pool? If people don't really like the noises kids make they should move to places where children are not allowed. This complain did not seem like something that warranted police or a judge. They are kids for Christ sake. This is American, now kids can't even be kids anymore. If the do drugs, it's bad, if they join gangs, it's bad, if they listend to loud music, it's bad, if they have fun in a pool, it's bad? What is wrong with us people?

Ain't that the frickin' truth.

I have known kids who would just scream at the top of their lungs all day. And then there are my boys, one of whom is known for his ability to "hulk out" when angry. LOL.

I agree with what you've said here, Gid. But I also think greywar may be on to something. There seriously may have been more to the story.

And they have parents for Christs's sake!



Really? You buy a house in a neighborhood, a neighbor moves in who refuses to actually discipline their kids within societal norms and it is somehow *your* responsibility to move away?

Do you actually think that is even remotely sensible? If so just let me know so I can stop bothering to reply.

I'm gonna have to side with Greywar, here. In our old neighborhood, we had some backyard neighbors who never did a thing to discipline their children - who ran amok and caused nothing but grief for the entire neighborhood.

So what were we supposed to do? Was the whole street to move because of one discipline-free family?

There is a huge difference between kids playing and kids with no boundaries, limits, or rules. I'd need to hear more of the story - both sides of the story - before I made my final decision that this was irrational.

Hey Gid, did you know Willie?

Here, here! Well spoken Bruce.

It is telling that the neighbors in this case took to makig audio tapes of the kids and this was what finally got the cops to do something about it but without being there it will be pretty hard to say if this complaint in particular is justified or not.

Even if this one isn't though it certaily doesn't mean that NO noise complaints could be valid against kids simply because they are kids. Youth is not carte blanche to be an anti-social beast.

My wife only works as a nanny a couple days a week, and she takes our kids with her. So that seems to be working out pretty well for us as a balance. A little extra money, without the lack on knowing who is raising our kids. It's only a couple days a week because the parents work from home the other days because they want to know who's rasing their kids too. Luckily, they and my wife have the same basic views towards child-rearing. Also, she trusts my wife because my wife used to work at a daycare where her oldest used to attend. So it's better for everyone this way.

Children can definitely be a noise violation, but more often they are just kids.

I would think there has to be more to the story too because kids playing and having fun could not be the reason why that neighbor would do what they did...and that's so ridiculous no comment is fitting enough!


However, I've seen the side of kids that Greywar mentioned, where kids are allowed to run free like beasts in the wilderness ALL DAY and there are no parents checking on them! Absolutely madness and heaven knows the trouble they get into!

There appears to be a schism.  But perhaps not.

One side is saying that kids are noisy, because they are kids, but it is not a nuisance.

The other is saying that kids can very well be nuisances, and loud.

The article linked and quoted is short on details (it is a news story after all - and does not mention a person who was named after a city).  However, some facts were mentioned.  And that was the "perpetrators" are 2 girls, ages 5 and 11, and the noise was coming from their back yard while they were playing in the swimming pool.

Now what is not mentioned is the times the parents allowed them to swim.  But if they are responsible parents, it would be during the day, and early evening.  Not all night long.  But we do not know that for sure.

What we do know is that it is 2 small girls (the story on CNN showed a picture of them), in their own backyard.  With only that information to go on, I can see the camp that is saying "kids can be very noisy", and they can be, but I don't believe that is the case here, nor do I see muzzling them in their own backyard - unless the said noise also entailed a boom box going at 120 decibels.

If our children cannot play and have fun - in their own backyard, during daylight, then we are a sad society that has become too self centered to even dream of procreating.

TW (quote's not working)

I didn't know Willie, but I do know David and Vickie. I just heard today.

I'll probably do something personally for them rather than the community thing.