God or Country first?

or; the conundrum continues.

from JoeUser Forums
I recently read a letter in the Reader's Forum of a local newspaper, The Salt Lake Tribune. The author of this particular piece was specifically talking about Mitt Romney, criticizing him for saying that he and his family are patriotic when his sons, rather than serve in the military (which I guess, according to the author, is the only true way to be a patriot), served as missionaries for the LDS church for two years. He further stated that "country should be placed before God".

That didn't quite jibe with what I've always felt, at least in my own life. my priorities are the opposite of this mans - as has been discussed in other articles on this site, I'm a child of God first, and an American second. But that doesn't make me unpatriotic, does it? Simply because I place God higher on the list than the US of A means that I'm not patriotic?

So, JU, what is your thinking? What comes first - God or your country? Can you still be patriotic if you put your creator before your country, or, as the writer of the letter stated, are you somehow less-than-patriotic for your thinking that way?
religion
6,856 views 34 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

My own personal battle cry will tell you my answer.

 

 

" FOR GOD AND COUNTRY "!

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
You're only an American as long as your on this earth. You're a child of God for eternity.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
It's really funny that some idiot (and I do use that term idiot) thinks that he is better than Mitt Romney because Former Gov. Romney sent his boys on missions "rather than" sending them into the military. Except in times of draft, both missions and military service are personal decisions. I wouldn't press my kid into military service any more than I would push them into the Missionary Training Center.

Rather than pumping up his own personal self-esteem in the eyes of the SL Trib's readership, maybe this guy should take a minute and drop his rationalizations about who's better than whom. He may take long enough to realize that for some people God comes before country and for others, the opposite. It's an individual choice.

As far as I'm concerned, you can serve both God and country. And I did:
LDS missionary: England London Mission, 1990-1992.
US Army: Fort Hood Texas, 1999-2005.

(For purposes of full disclosure, I am raising my three boys and one girl to hopefully serve missions one day. As for the military, they know my history and feelings about my Army time. It is my hope that they will decide according to their personal feelings on both military and missionary service.)
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you don't take care of the Spiritual You first, then what good to anybody is the Patriotic You gonna be?
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Definitely God before Country.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
MM:
My own personal battle cry

You have a battle cry? You go into battle?
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
If you don't take care of the Spiritual You first, then what good to anybody is the Patriotic You gonna be?


hmmmmm I'm thinking there's a famous old quote similar to this thought...maybe by Daniel Webster? Something about the best Christian makes the best American.

Definitely God first. Gotta be right with the vertical before we can be right with the horizontal.

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
I am a Mormon, and also a Veteran. I agree that God comes first.

What I find most interesting, though, is the venom so many folks have for us - Mormons. There is this pervasive idea that we are not "real" christians, and that we believe in a 'different" Jesus Christ. While we may have some basic doctrinal differences (we believe that God still has things to say to mankind, for example). But what I find most contradictory, and this string is the perfect example, I believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is a doctrine of service, wether it be service to our neighbors, our enemies (anyone remember 'turning the other cheek'?) or our country.

Lets not forget that, after recieving the Ten Commandments, Moses led his own army through the desert for 40 years! Back in the day, God and Country were not mutually exclusive concepts. God and Country were the same thing, and I think it would not be innapropriate to include the concept 'Family' into God and Country.

For Mormons, we have a concept called Zion, to which we aspire. The definition of Zion means "a people of one heart, and one mind", where there is "no rich, and no poor". We believe that, through service to one another, including our enemies, we can create this world. Crazy, no? What an awful thing to think about - that we can actually improve the socio-economic landscape by willingly helping each other.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thanks for the comments, everyone! (And what is an article of mine doing on the front page? That's a first) Seems as though I'm not alone in my thoughts - in fact, today, there was a decent rebuttal printed in the paper today. From the letter:

The headline over (the original) letter was right on, though. “True patriots serve,” but they serve God first, not the United States government.


That's about how I feel about it.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
You are so un-American! You're going straight to Hell... wait... oops.

Yeah, I don't know many people who join the military or do missions... most folks choose neither. What does that make them?
Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
What does that make them?


Average!
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: singrdavePosted: Monday, June 18, 2007
MM:
My own personal battle cry

You have a battle cry? You go into battle?

Yes I do, and yes I use to.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
STUPID JOEUSER WONKY SCREWED UP MISTAKE FILLED DOUBLE POST, FOR WHICH I RECEIVED NO POINTS FOR WEITHER POST/COMMENT.
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

You serve God First, then Country.  Do you impose your beleifs on others?  Or do you allow your beliefs to form your conscious in the way you interact with others?

Your country allows you do do the latter, and asks that you not do the former.  If you follow those rules, you can have your cake and eat it too.  The quakers were no less Americans because they refused to pick up a gun.  But they served their conscious and their country in other ways, proving that they were the equal of any other Americans.

It is sad that we are even having this discussion, as it should never come down to that question - except when your faith dictates you must break the laws of the land.  And other than cults, I know of none that do.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top
PS: Except perhaps marijuana laws - (Should be added to the last paragraph of the above).
Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say country first.

I would qualify this by stating I only feel this way because of what our country IS, a place where ALL can freely worship the God of their choosing, or not worship at all.

If our predominantly Christian nation truly put God first, the entire country would have to shut down on Sunday, divorce would be impossible to obtain, the Ten Commandments would be posted in every public building, and homosexuality would be punishable by death.

It is only due to our ability to separate religious belief from public law that those of you who DO worship are able to do so in relative peace, so in these circumstances I think we put country first, and always have, no matter how much lip service we pay to the notion of putting God first.


Sounds like the old which-came-first-the-chicken-or-the-egg thing to me Whip! But you do make a very valid point.

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Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
So it would not be loyal to say God first then Country later? Because for most Christians it is that way. How can you serve your country if you don't know who your God is?
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
LW POSTS:
ALL can freely worship the God of their choosing, or not worship at all.


I understand the basic premise of what your'e saying, but think it's flawed. Why because it's based on individual liberty. And there is no absolute liberty in this country. Liberty always implies relative restriction. If I am free from truth, I am subject to error. If free from virtue, subject to vice.

When God revealed His Law, that revelation took away my liberty to do what the law forbade. As you pointed out, His law takes away the liberty of divorce, etc. The US gives its citizens the liberty to have it. That is the liberty of the devil and refusal of submission to GOd. We must choose which liberty we will have. Some have chosen that liberty from God and going full circle and getting back to your playing devil's advocate.
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Good article SanChon.

My first instinct is to say country first, I say this looking at the Muslim fanatics angle, with them in mind fanatical religion is dangerous.

When it comes to more peaceful religions (is there such a thing? but you get what I mean) such as Christianity, Buddhism, Spiritualism etc. Then I say God first, country second.

If it came to Islam forcing Britain to its knees, conquering us, forcing woman to wear veils etc, the I say country first and fight like hell to destroy the enemy and their religion.

Peace time - God first - war times - country first.

So for me it has two answers, it depends on the situation.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I think everyone should be a Chaplain in the military and serve both God and country. I don't know why people always have to judge other's choices. Personally, I would rather run for office if I didn't have any kids because then you don't have to answer all the asinine "what if your child did this, what would you do then" questions.

What I find most interesting, though, is the venom so many folks have for us - Mormons. There is this pervasive idea that we are not "real" christians, and that we believe in a 'different" Jesus Christ.


It's probably because of the magic underwear and stuff. That's a joke. I couldn't help myself. I have heard about magic underwear on TV several times since Mitt announced. I also heard that the "real" Mormon's were upset that Mitt condemned polygamy because they believe that was a vital part of their church history.
Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top
double post deleted
Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top
God first. God will tell me how best to relate to my country.
Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top
Heh, as an agnostic, I say country first.

Actually, though, I'd say family is first, but serving country is also serving family so that works out nicely.
Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top
God.

(And joining a country's army isn't the only way to be a warrior.)
Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top
God first. God will tell me how best to relate to my country.


ya, why not go to the one with all the wisdom in the first place? Makes sense.

God.

(And joining a country's army isn't the only way to be a warrior.)


yep....the battle belongs to the Lord anyhow.

Onward Christian Soldiers