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We are NOT YET A Secular Nation

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We are NOT YET A Secular Nation

But we might be headed that way....

from JoeUser Forums
 

The most common Polls show that over 90 Percent of the country Believes in God, that alone shows we are NOT yet a secular nation.

The far left Secular Progressives {gag} continue to try and push the country into a secular mindset, but so far they continue to fail. Why you might ask. See above. 90% of the country believes in GOD.

Europe has become a collection of Secular nations and we see the results, Poor economies, Poor morals, lousy ethics and most of all the people have a huge sense of ENTITLEMENT. Give me! is the watch word of the day. Give me food, Give me shelter, Guarantee me that I will have a place to live and shelter myself if I NEVER WORK A SINGLE DAY IN MY LIFE. This attitude of Secular Progression {gag} is crippling the countries of Europe, with huge taxes to pay for the bums and malcontents, it causes a huge drain of the governments ability to do things like defend themselves, prosper and grow.

The result of this attitude resulted in 15,000 deaths in 2003 in France when the power went out in August and the workers were on the traditional Month vacation and refused to come back to repair the electrical grid, Which powered the air conditioners in a summer that saw record heat waves..

Living on the "DOLE" is a way of life in England. Worse than our welfare.

As long as we have a country where the Majority of people believe in GOD the force feeding of Secular progressive {gag} Ideals and Ideas will NOT take hold.

God help us if somehow the far left loons and their secular progressive {gag} Agenda takes over the country, who knows where it will lead to, possibly the banning of religion. Some proof of this is how religion has become an anathema in politics {courthouses, statehouses, government owned lands, Schools}.More proof is the many suits against states, counties with crosses on the flags, the pledge of allegiance {they want it gone} The money we use {they want in God we trust removed} God is being attacked from the loony left secular progressives {gag} and we people of faith in GOD must fight back.

 

religion
10,555 views 84 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top
MM POSTS:
Now if an Atheist was a moral man, an honest man, a good man with the best of intentions for America, and with no agenda of destroying religion or denigrating religion, you still WOULD NOT VOTE FOR HIM?


Now if an Atheist was a moral man, an honest man, a good man with the best of intentions for America, and with no agenda of destroying religion or denigrating religion, you still WOULD NOT VOTE FOR HIM?


You see, MM, I'm old fashioned, I think atheism is a bad thing. Think Communism which is based an atheism, a bad thing. I would not vote for an atheist. Believing in God and holding up life, from conception to natural death, is my litmus test for voting for all candidates running for any office.

Just asking, how can a Godless man deep down be a moral, honest, good man? The two just don't match up for if he does not believe in God, what are he basing his morality, his honesty and goodness on? Man's idea of it???? Yuk!

Wasn't it an atheist who got prayer taken out of school in 1962? or an atheist who is calling for the words "under God" to be removed from the pledge of allegience and from our currency? The sexual revolution of the 60's and 70's gave us the stamp of approval to pornography, fornication, unmarried cohabitiation, no-fault divorce, abortion and homosexuality has been the most striking instance of practical atheism at work.

I see practical atheism continuing but will be supplemented by theoretical defenses of atheism and attacks upon Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It's already happening. The culture is becoming more friendly to sexual liberty which of course includes abortion and homosex 'marriage' while becoming correspondingly unfriendly to Christianity.
Reply #27 from JoeUser Forums Top
FYI: There was more to Pace's replacement than his comments re: homosexuality. And on a totally tangential note, I actually met General Pace this month, shook his hand, and got a hug, smooch, and a thank you from his wife.

Politicians may be guided by their religious beliefs and I don't think there is a way (nor would it be appropriate) to stop it. We depend on politicians to represent us and reflect our beliefs and values in their decision-making.

HOWEVER, religion itself should not legislated nor should it be a part of the political process.

In order to protect our freedom to belief (or not believe) and worship (or not worship) as we wish, our government must remain secular and remain committed to protecting our religious freedoms (as well as our freedom to be free from religion).

I don't know if I am articulating my POV very well but I hope you all understand what I mean.


Elemental: Reforged
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top
MM POSTS:
HANOIJOHN KERRY CLAIMS TO BE RELIGIOUS, HE IS A CATHOLIC, BUT HE IS ALSO A TRAITOR TO THE COUNTRY, PUTS THE MILITARY DOWN, CALLS THEM STUPID, BELIEVES IN RAISING TAXES, is a proven liar, would you vote for him instead of the Atheist I pointed out?


Oh, man, don't even get me going on JFKerry. He is what I call Catholic in name only. Added to all the things you say, he's a Catholic hypocrite taboot. I must have a file an half-inch thick of letters to him asking him to check his conscience and turn around on his pro-abortion and pro-sodomy stance. I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.

My conscience would not allow me to vote for either Kerry or an atheist. I would either leave the space blank or write-in my candidate's name.
Reply #29 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.


Wow. Too bad we don't have a barfing smiley.
Reply #30 from JoeUser Forums Top
Politicians may be guided by their religious beliefs and I don't think there is a way (nor would it be appropriate) to stop it. We depend on politicians to represent us and reflect our beliefs and values in their decision-making.


Exactly, and this is one of the attributes of our system of voting and tells us how important our one vote is.


HOWEVER, religion itself should not legislated nor should it be a part of the political process.


I disagree with the second part of what you say. The First AMendment stipulates that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting free exercise thereof.."

I read "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" as meaning the US government must be blind to, stay out of and not interfere with religion.

I read the second part "Congress shall make no law ....prohibiting free exercise thereof.." as meaning the government shall not prohibit religion from effecting government, either its officials or the lawmaking process.

In other words, government is restricted as far as religion is concerned, yet religion is not restricted as far as government is concerned. US government does not prohibit or restrict lawmakers' and voters' religious beliefs from the political process.

Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.


Wow. Too bad we don't have a barfing smiley.




Right now I have freedom of religious expression. I'm concerned that the time is coming when I won't. For history itself has shown and that secular nations become socialist ones and those become totalitarian or communist ones.

Reply #32 from JoeUser Forums Top
I'm not sure what my distaste for your comment about your taking the time to write to demand that another person not be allowed to receive communion has to do with freedom of religious expression.
Reply #33 from JoeUser Forums Top
(Citizen)Texas WahineJune 19, 2007 16:09:36Reply #32
I'm not sure what my distaste for your comment about your taking the time to write to demand that another person not be allowed to receive communion has to do with freedom of religious expression.


I was attempting, perhaps rather clumsily, to make a point that gets to the heart of the matter of the main topic of this blog.

My letters were to both Church and State. The State being John Kerry, US Senator, and the Church being his parish priest.

Today, I have freedom to mix "religion with politics" and exercised that by writing those letters. I see a time when the First Amendment is challenged (perhaps by judicial fiat)to the point that I will no longer be able to exercise my freedom.

Reply #34 from JoeUser Forums Top

Lulapilgrim posts:
I must have a file an half-inch thick of letters to him asking him to check his conscience and turn around on his pro-abortion and pro-sodomy stance. I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.


TEXAS WAHINE POSTS:
I'm not sure what my distaste for your comment about your taking the time to write to demand that another person not be allowed to receive communion has to do with freedom of religious expression.



Please note the action word was "asked" not "demand".
Reply #35 from JoeUser Forums Top
My letters were to both Church and State. The State being John Kerry, US Senator, and the Church being his parish priest.


As a Catholic, I think you are wrong - both in your understanding of who can and should receive communion and in trying to get the priest to go along with you.

However, I will support your right to do so, and hope that you can always petition the state (the church is not a democracy) for whatever purpose you want to feel like speaking out on. You can petition the Church - but as I said before - they have their own rules, and those rules are not subject to popular approval.
Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top
MM is smart enough to stay out of lula and tex baxck and forth thingie..

Smart is the man who knows when to keep silent, MM 1974
Reply #37 from JoeUser Forums Top
DrGuy Posts:
As a Catholic, I think you are wrong - both in your understanding of who can and should receive communion and in trying to get the priest to go along with you.

However, I will support your right to do so, and hope that you can always petition the state (the church is not a democracy) for whatever purpose you want to feel like speaking out on. You can petition the Church - but as I said before - they have their own rules, and those rules are not subject to popular approval.


Kerry's public support for the deadly practice of legalized abortion is scandalous in the eyes of the Church. Canon Law 915 makes it clear that professing such heretical beliefs makes them unworthy to receive Holy COmmunion. "Those who...obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion."


According to Canon Law 212.2-3, I can and should make my concerns known to Kerry and to his priest. "Christ's faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church. 3 They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence, and position, to manifest to the Pastors their views on matter which concern the good of the Chruch. They have the right also to make their views known to others of Christ's faithful, but in doing so they must always respect the integrity of faith and morals, show due reverence to the Pastors and to take into account both the common good and the dignity of individuals."

In a most charitable fashion, and as a fellow Catholic, I applied two of the 7 Spiritual Works of Mercy, which are to admonish the sinner and to instruct the ignorant, and wrote to Kerry asking him to be in accordance with the Catholic faith and cease voting pro-abortion and sodomy. If not, he should refrain from approaching the altar and receiving our Lord's Body and BLood in the Holy Eucharist.

St.Paul told the Corinthians that "whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord." 1Cor. 11:27

Btw, besides Sen. Kerry, some other Catholic hypocrites are Sen. Susan Collins, Ted Kennedy, Patrick Leahy, Christopher Dodd, George Pataki, Barbara Mikulski, Richard Durbin, Tom Harkins, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Nancy Pelosi, Lisa Murkowski and Rudy Guiliani. When politicians such as these are not going by what the Catholic faith of Christ teaches, it really means that interest groups, the media and the big money campaign contributers who make their "careers" possible will call the shots for them.

In 2004, there was an explicit directive from the Holy See to the U.S. Bishops on this matter. That pro-abortion Catholic politician's "pastor should meet with him about the Church's teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy COmmunion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist".

Just last month while aboard the papal plane Pope Benedict confirms excommunications of Mexican legislatures who voted in favor of abortion. The Holy Father said he thought selfishness and fear are at the root of it, I rather think, in the case of the dirty dozen I just named, it's power, money and stayin' in office.
Woe to them.
Reply #38 from JoeUser Forums Top
MM is smart enough to stay out of lula and tex baxck and forth thingie..


Really, there isn't a back and forth thingie between myself and Texas and certanly no problem here on my part. Her calling for a barfing smily only told me she doesn't understand Catholicism...and that's OK.
Reply #39 from JoeUser Forums Top
From a biblical POV church discipline is very appropriate.... for bad behavior is not becoming a Christian. To cut someone off from fellowship who is clearly bringing down the name of Christ is done for the sole purpose to RESTORE them back after leaving whatever it is behind. I've seen this happen before twice, and it's a good thing. Sin is compared to leaven for a reason. It quickly spreads and corrupts.

A local church body is like a family. If someone does something hurtful or adheres to hurful doctrine, it hurts the whole body.

It's sort of like our own families. When one of our older children do something so terrible that it brings dishonor to his/her family it's not unusual to open the door to them and say come back when you leave that (whatever) behind. If you don't, it not only affects the whole family but the younger siblings are given a wrong message by allowing bad behavior to continue without discipline.

It's supposed to be that way with our church families...but too often it's not and that's why our churches are in the messes they are in today. Nobody likes to be the bad guy.

Reply #40 from JoeUser Forums Top
lulapilgrimJune 19, 2007 19:53:24


MM is smart enough to stay out of lula and tex baxck and forth thingie..


Really, there isn't a back and forth thingie between myself and Texas and certanly no problem here on my part. Her calling for a barfing smily only told me she doesn't understand Catholicism...and that's OK.


I did'nt say it was a bad back and forth thingie, I just said it was or is, and I am still smart enough to recognize it when I see it.
Reply #41 from JoeUser Forums Top
(Citizen)KFC Kickin For ChristJune 19, 2007 20:50:50Reply #39
From a biblical POV church discipline is very appropriate.... for bad behavior is not becoming a Christian. To cut someone off from fellowship who is clearly bringing down the name of Christ is done for the sole purpose to RESTORE them back after leaving whatever it is behind. I've seen this happen before twice, and it's a good thing. Sin is compared to leaven for a reason. It quickly spreads and corrupts.

A local church body is like a family. If someone does something hurtful or adheres to hurful doctrine, it hurts the whole body.

It's sort of like our own families. When one of our older children do something so terrible that it brings dishonor to his/her family it's not unusual to open the door to them and say come back when you leave that (whatever) behind. If you don't, it not only affects the whole family but the younger siblings are given a wrong message by allowing bad behavior to continue without discipline.

It's supposed to be that way with our church families...but too often it's not and that's why our churches are in the messes they are in today. Nobody likes to be the bad guy.


Yes, KFC, thank you for explaining it so well. The analagy of the family brings it through most clearly. Then again, the family, is the domestic Church!
Reply #42 from JoeUser Forums Top
I did'nt say it was a bad back and forth thingie, I just said it was or is, and I am still smart enough to recognize it when I see it.


Oh, I know what you're saying. You're no fool.

Again, I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't a bad 'thingie'.
Reply #43 from JoeUser Forums Top
I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.


When I first read this I felt disgusted, now I feel very sad.
Reply #44 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: Abe CubbagePosted: Wednesday, June 20, 2007
I've written his parish priest in Massachusetts and asked that Kerry not be given the Holy Eucharist when he unworthily presents himself at the altar.


When I first read this I felt disgusted, now I feel very sad.

I gotta ask why? A good Catholic would not be a very vocal supporter of abortion and Kerry is! What about the letter would possibly disgust you? then why would disgust change into sadness?

Reply #45 from JoeUser Forums Top
I gotta ask why? A good Catholic would not be a very vocal supporter of abortion and Kerry is! What about the letter would possibly disgust you? then why would disgust change into sadness?


good questions...I second them. His fellow brothers and sisters in the faith have every reason to question him as he's bringing down their faith by not adhering to chuch doctrine....add to this the many that are doing exactly the same. Cleaning house is NOT a bad thing once in a while. It strengthens the body, not weakens it.

Reply #46 from JoeUser Forums Top

His fellow brothers and sisters in the faith have every reason to question him as he's bringing down their faith by not adhering to chuch doctrine

The issue was never questioning him.  It happens in all faiths, and the Catholic Church is no different.  It goes to how the Church is structured into petitioning the priest to ex-communicate him.  There is no law against it, but as many have learned, the Church is not a democracy, and while it may do the petioner's peace of mind good to write said document, it has no bearing on the standing of the member.

The pope has said that he "thinks" that Catholics who support abortion should be separated from the church.  However, he really has no authority to do so, since the separation of the individual from the body is a decision that a person has to make.  The person makes that decision by renouncing (or declaring null) a tenet of the Church.  The Church then can say "you have separated yourself from the Body", but it is the person doing the separation.

And while abortion is a teaching of the Church (a thou shalt not), it is not a Tenet of the Church.  And therefore disagreeing with them on the issue is not a separation of the individual from the Body.

Killing is a tenet of the church.  And that is where the gray comes in.  For if you believe, as the leaders of the Church does, that an unborn child is a person, with all the rights and attributes of a post partum person, then you are going against a tenet of the Church, and are basically excommunicating yourself.

If you believe that it is just a mass of parasitic tissue until birth, then you are stating that you do not believe it is a person, and that excising it is no worse than cutting off a wart.  And you can then still be a part of the body as you have not denied one of the basic tenets.

Reply #47 from JoeUser Forums Top

Reply By: KFC Kickin For ChristPosted: Wednesday, June 20, 2007
I gotta ask why? A good Catholic would not be a very vocal supporter of abortion and Kerry is! What about the letter would possibly disgust you? then why would disgust change into sadness?


good questions...I second them. His fellow brothers and sisters in the faith have every reason to question him as he's bringing down their faith by not adhering to chuch doctrine....add to this the many that are doing exactly the same. Cleaning house is NOT a bad thing once in a while. It strengthens the body, not weakens it.

while I appreciate you answering, the questions were for  Abe Cubbage . You just cannot drop that kind of bomb here with no explaination.

Reply #48 from JoeUser Forums Top
Really, there isn't a back and forth thingie between myself and Texas and certanly no problem here on my part. Her calling for a barfing smily only told me she doesn't understand Catholicism...and that's OK.


Funny, I agreed with Tex's comment, and I'm a catholic -- do I not understand catholicism as well? Maybe you don't mean to be, but you come across as very condescending and judgemental.
Reply #49 from JoeUser Forums Top

 

  

Reply By: Dr GuyPosted: Wednesday, June 20, 2007

The issue was never questioning him. It happens in all faiths, and the Catholic Church is no different. It goes to how the Church is structured into petitioning the priest to ex-communicate him. There is no law against it, but as many have learned, the Church is not a democracy, and while it may do the petioners peace of mind good to write said document, it has no bearing on the standing of the member.

Not TRUE DOC, Kalil Gibran the writer of the Prophet and many other works was a Catholic, Lebanese and was Excommunicated for the writing of  "SATAN" The entire work I once posted here on Joeuser long ago.

Reply #50 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not TRUE DOC, Kalil Gibran the writer of the Prophet and many other works was a Catholic, Lebanese and was Excommunicated for the writing of "SATAN" The entire work I once posted here on Joeuser long ago.

But he excommunicated himself through his writings and beliefs.  The church can pronounce it, but only a person can do it.