Patriotism-Dead or Alive?

Do We Need A Revival?

I am Patriotic and proud of it. I always have been. I get goose bumps when I sing God Bless America, or My Country Tis of Thee. I can't help it. It was ingrained in me since I was a child I guess. We used to sing these songs all the time. When was the last time you had the opportunity to sing about our Heritage or even hear one of these Patriotic songs outside of a sports arena? Do our young children today even know these songs?

My earliest school memories involve singing such songs every morning before school started. We would stand and sing by our desks two or three such songs. I remember singing When The Saints Go Marching In which happened to be right up there as one of my all time favorites. No this was not some Christian private school by the way. This was public school.

Boy, alot has changed since then. I AM NOT THAT OLD. I was in public school in the late 60's and 70's. My mom and grandmother have stories about when they started school it always started with prayer and a scipture reading. I only remember a time of silence. Prayer had already been thrown out by the time I got into school I guess.

Anyhow this all came to my mind last week when I visited Jerry Falwell's church in Lynchburg, VA. He had a speaker last Sunday night that just blew me away. I'm familiar with him but have never seen him in person. His name is David Barton. He has a ministry called Wall Builders. He goes around the country informing all of us what has been lost in the realm of political correctness. I've heard alot of speakers in my time including some foot stomping preachers, but none in all my years captured an audience like Barton. You could audibly hear, quite well, all the gasps across that big church as Barton made statements and showed many historical documents that many of the older generation especially could remember and relate to.

Last Sunday before Barton spoke we sang all the same songs I remembered since childhood. It all came back to me as I sang out those words without the aid of the big screens all over the place. Also sung that night, of course, was the Star Spangled Banner and The Lord's Prayer. It was awesome. That place rocked last Sunday night with all the Patriots like myself singing as loud as we could and still be in key.

When I got home I read about a Christian teacher who is suing a San Diego school district he has taught in for three decades, accusing it of purging classrooms of the country's religious heritage and history. The district ordered the teacher to remove banners from his classroom walls that included mottos and slogans promoting what school officials consider a "Judeo-Christian" viewpoint.

The teacher Brad Johnson has filed a lawsuit alleging officials with the Poway Unified School District violated his constitutional rights by demanding he take down several educational banners in his classroom, some of which had been displayed -- without complaint -- for nearly 25 years. Those banners contained phrases such as "In God We Trust" (the official motto of the United States); "One Nation Under God" (a phrase from the Pledge of Allegiance); "God Bless America" (the title of a patriotic song); "God Shed His Grace On Thee" (a line from a popular patriotic song); and an excerpt from the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, "All Men Are Created Equal, They Are Endowed By Their Creator."

Johnson, who has taught for 30 years in the district, was told by school officials the banners violated school policy because they conveyed a Judeo-Christian viewpoint. Wow! What a shame! What was he thinking?

It's funny these banners up until now have caused no disorder or disruption in the classroom. What's changed? His attorney Rob Muise had this to say:

Muise argues that the school is engaging in blatant anti-Christian discrimination against his client. "They've restricted his speech based on a viewpoint, and they claim because it promotes a Judeo-Christian viewpoint," he explains, adding that "they've demonstrated a hostility towards religion in this particular context, which is also impermissible."

"They allow a forum for certain speakers whose messages they obviously permit -- some that are not even educational in nature," says Muise. He notes that in one classroom just down the hallway from Johnson's, a teacher has displayed a poster of the grunge band Nirvana.

"Yet they prohibit my client from using the same forum to express an educational mission just because it promotes a sectarian viewpoint, in their view," Muise points out.

In a press release from the Law Center, Muise argues that public school teachers in America have a responsibility to educate their students to be informed citizens, a process that includes learning about the nation's history and its founding.

These banners served to educate these students, as they had always done , for 25 years I might add. The Patriotism that once united this country has now been slowly eradicated by those so concerned with PC.

We've come a long way Baby, and not for the better in my opinion.

That's my opinion, I welcome yours.

For more information on Barton check out his site but I'd really encourage you to listen to him, hear him speak. He's amazing to listen to.

Link

6,473 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top
The Patriotism that once united this country has now been slowly eradicated by those so concerned with PC.


This about says it all.

I hope he wins his case.
Reply #2 Top
I would argue with the School district that the only ones offended (maybe) by the posters would be Atheists, and therefore it is not promoting a Judeo Christian bias.  As the Muslims pray to the same god, and all religions pray to A (or several) Gods.
Reply #3 Top
I hope he wins his case.


me too. I'm tired seeing our heritage trampled on.

would argue with the School district that the only ones offended (maybe) by the posters would be Atheists


ya, probably some atheist saw these posters and put up a stink. It only takes one. I hope the other parents and supporters speak up about this. He needs to be encouraged. I thought it was interesting these posters were all centered around our politcal heritage invoking God yes, but it's not like he had up scripture verses or anything.

Jeepers how many know that our very own first legistative session was held in a Choir Loft in a church? And the first session was open with a very long prayer...hours long?

There's not even a question in my mind as to why our nation has thrived for so long and has been so prosperous so quickly. I'm afraid tho, that we are going downhill fast as we leave God in the dust in doing so. He definitely is the power beneath our wings. We need, as a nation, to wake up and smell the coffee.



Reply #4 Top
"Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord"

Don't be discouraged by the noise levels created on the left side of the room. The majority...vast majority...of our citizens are good, honest and God fearing. We cannot ignore the attempts of the radical few who try to tear down the belief structure to serve their own agenda...but we should remember that they speak loud but not for us all.
Reply #5 Top
"Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord"

Don't be discouraged by the noise levels created on the left side of the room. The majority...vast majority...of our citizens are good, honest and God fearing. We cannot ignore the attempts of the radical few who try to tear down the belief structure to serve their own agenda...but we should remember that they speak loud but not for us all.
Reply #6 Top

"When the country falls into chaos, patriotism is born."

    - Lao Tzu

Reply #7 Top
Sad, so sad. Been saying it for a while on this site. This country is loosing everything it was built on as we try to please everyone who moves here. Kinda funny to think that if we go to other countries the only thing they will do for us is speak English and that's only to charge us. I love my country, I miss the good old days, and that was just 20 years ago for me. I remember standing up in class ( Kinder, First and Second grade) and saying the Pledge of Allegiance while facing a flag that hanged from the wall in our classroom. I can’t remember ding that my last 2 years of school. I have not heard my son mention this to me either. Sad, eventually American History will be eliminated just to please the small groups of foreigners that feel offended by it.
Reply #8 Top
Reply By: Big Fat DaddyPosted: Monday, May 07, 2007"Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord"


yes this is true. And another standby that's a favorite of many is:

"If my people which are called by name shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgie their sin and will heal their land." 2 Chron 7:14

When the country falls into chaos, patriotism is born."


this is true but I hate to see that happen in order for us to rememer where we've come from.

Reply #9 Top
I cannot speak for everyone here, but many here are dyed in the wool 110% patriots. Proud to be an American, dismayed at what is happening to America.
Reply #10 Top
Is there any reason why religious instruction can't be taught at home?

I am agnostic, bordering on atheist, and I personally don't have a problem with my children being exposed to religion as I feel like it's their choice, but you have to understand that if you push Christian faith in school, you open things up for other faiths as well, many of which might directly contradict your values.

My children participate in Cub Scouts, and they have learned how to do color guard, so we say the pledge frequently outside of school. It is, admittedly, uncomfortable for me because I don't want to invite criticism if I omit "under God" but at the same time, that line to does not reflect my personal pledge to my country.

I take far more flak for NOT being religious than I ever did for being religious.
Reply #11 Top
Is there any reason why religious instruction can't be taught at home?


It absolutely should be.

but you have to understand that if you push Christian faith in school, you open things up for other faiths as well, many of which might directly contradict your values.


some of that is already happening but Christianity at the same time is taboo.

is, admittedly, uncomfortable for me because I don't want to invite criticism if I omit "under God" but at the same time, that line to does not reflect my personal pledge to my country.


I completely understand this. For a while when I was still in school I was a JW. They do not recite the pledge either. I had to stand there and say and do nothing. I don't agree with that now, but I would defend your right to do so or not do so. But in the meantime, our country was founded on many of these things, why take them out when so many of us would like to see them continue? I'd like to see our country stand on the principles it was founded, but not criticize any that wish not to participate either.

I get angry over the lies we've been taught these last 40-50 years or so. Since the 30's, 40's and 50's the textbooks have slowly been changing. Before then our history was centered around the truth about God and Country. Since then it's shifted into more economic history than anything. It's now all centered around economics not God like it used to.

For instance. How many know what original paintings are hangng in the Capitol building? How many have seen the painting of Pocahantas getting baptized? How many know her name was changed to Princess Rebecca after being converted to Christianity? The painting I believe is called Princess Rebecca and is 12' by 18 ' long. It's life sized. We were not told of her name change because if they tell the kids that, then they have to explain why she changed her name.

How many can name the 56 signers of the Declaration? Again, the painting which was a live painting hangs in Washington. Is it a coincidence that our school children can only name and point to two of the signers? Guess which two? Franklin and Jefferson. Is it a coincidence that these two were the LEAST religious of the 56? What do you know of the other 54 signers? Did you know one founded 5 universities? Did you know that one started Sunday School in America in 1791 or that one founded the American Bible Society? Do you know that at least half were trained seminarians?

Most don't know this, because we've been taught otherwise for a purpose. Little bit by little bit our heritage has been eradicated from our school children to indoctrinate them into humanistic thinking. Our founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they walked into one of our classrooms today.

Sorry for the rant, but like I told you.....I'm very patriotic.
Reply #12 Top
It's a lost cause. We try so hard to please everyone that all we do is please no one. How many times must it be said that nothing is perfect on this planet yet we strive to create that which is impossible. I don't even know why we have history anymore. I don't even know why we have schools for that matter. We have become a society of lazy, selfish, leave-me-alone attitude people who care about nothing not even themselves. One day in the future people will look back at this point in time and associate the word American with hypocrisy. We cry, kick and scream that our President has divided our country when in reality it has been us all along who have been doing that. We're so concerned with our own feelings that we ignore the fact that there are others out there that have the right to see, have, enjoy and participate in those things that bother us.

I don't care if you wanna believe, in God, Alas, the God of the Sun or no God at all. Ever heard of ignoring? Ever heard of consideration for others? Why this need to make everyone else angry knowing this will not bring you the wants that you search for? I am sad to say that, by my experience, the odds of this country ever becoming a better place to live is slim, with or without the terror factor. As long as we have cultures that either prohibit marriage or making friends due to religion, race or gender, or that think violence is better than diplomacy, this trend we see today in the US will continue to go down hill and eventually we will lose everything this country was built on and we will no longer be the most powerful country in the world and worst of all, we will be at the mercy of those countries who would rather have nothing better than to see us on our needs.
Reply #13 Top
I don't think that there will ever be organized prayer in public schools again and I think that's how it should be. Imagine the arguments over what prayer would be acceptable to all religions. The different Christian denominations can't even agree or get along, let alone the non-Christians. Not to mention all of the in-fighting within different denominations.

I think if it is important to parents for their kids to learn about God in school then they should send their kids to religious schools. My parents sent me to Catholic school because it was important to them even though paying the tuition was sometimes a struggle.

And the "under God" was not even added to the pledge until 1954.

I personally think it's patriotic not to exclude people or make them feel uncomfortable because their religous views aren't the same as the majority. That's what makes us different from many of the other countries in the world. The native Americans certainly weren't Christians. The first settlers to this country were fleeing religous persecution. They wanted to come to a "new world" where they would be free to worship the way they chose, not how the government told them to or by what was acceptable to the majority.

Reply #14 Top
Hello All,

I am much more optomistic than these replies seem to suggest JU readers are. I frankly think that the debate or discussion regarding religion in society is a healthy thing and that all sides should and need to be heard. I do not support tax money to be used to pay for religious displays, and I don't think religion should be taught in public schools in anything other than a comparative religions context. But children and parents, we all should be aware of both our similarities and differences as citizens.

I don't see religion as a patriotic issue, in fact, I sense it is antagonistic to patriotism, in truth. God is much larger than a nation or a planet for that matter. We we cast our heart toward the universal, the particular should be placed in context. I suspect we can protest too much on both sides of this issue. I wonder what really is the need behind the banners for God in a classroom. Shouldn't we be more worried about our children's conduct?

I don't know. It all seems terribly complex to me. The simplistic attacks on PC are bothersome as well. PC arises out of some degree of concern for others. It means we must find a way to get out of the box we might be in and see that we live in a world of pluralism whether we like it or not. On the otherhand, PC can and does seem to go over the top itself and become a sort of benevolent fascism, if you will.

Good article KFC, thank you.

Be well.
Reply #15 Top
Hello All,

I am much more optomistic than these replies seem to suggest JU readers are. I frankly think that the debate or discussion regarding religion in society is a healthy thing and that all sides should and need to be heard. I do not support tax money to be used to pay for religious displays, and I don't think religion should be taught in public schools in anything other than a comparative religions context. But children and parents, we all should be aware of both our similarities and differences as citizens.

I don't see religion as a patriotic issue, in fact, I sense it is antagonistic to patriotism, in truth. God is much larger than a nation or a planet for that matter. We we cast our heart toward the universal, the particular should be placed in context. I suspect we can protest too much on both sides of this issue. I wonder what really is the need behind the banners for God in a classroom. Shouldn't we be more worried about our children's conduct?

I don't know. It all seems terribly complex to me. The simplistic attacks on PC are bothersome as well. PC arises out of some degree of concern for others. It means we must find a way to get out of the box we might be in and see that we live in a world of pluralism whether we like it or not. On the otherhand, PC can and does seem to go over the top itself and become a sort of benevolent fascism, if you will.

Good article KFC, thank you.

Be well.
Reply #16 Top
Those banners contained phrases such as "In God We Trust" (the official motto of the United States); "One Nation Under God" (a phrase from the Pledge of Allegiance); "God Bless America" (the title of a patriotic song); "God Shed His Grace On Thee" (a line from a popular patriotic song)



all things that were instituted or at the height of their popularity in the 1950's. and "in god we trust" is not "the official motto" but a national motto. the 1st of those was "e pluribus unum" which was made the national motto in 1782. you imply that these slogans have something to do with the founding of our country, and they don't. maybe it's that misbelief that has others upset. none of those phrases were around when our country was founded. and that song was generations away from being written



and bringing up lines from god bless America reminded me of my favorite song of patriotism...by Woody Guthrie...that was, in fact, a response to Berlin's song...



THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

Chorus

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Chorus (2x)

Reply #17 Top
you imply that these slogans have something to do with the founding of our country, and they don't. maybe it's that misbelief that has others upset. none of those phrases were around when our country was founded.


Some little known facts about our beginnings:

One of the first things done in Jamestown (if not the first thing) was a cross was erected in 1607 (400 yrs ago) Every single town in our country was first started with the building of a church and a minister that was paid by the state revenues. So much for separation of church and state.

97% of the founding fathers were practicing Christians and exercised their faith in public office, at work, at home, and had it taught to their children in their schools. Most homes had no other book than a bible in them.

187 of the first 200 colleges in America were Christian, Bible teaching institutions. Entrance to Harvard required strong knowledge of the Bible. Both Princeton and Harvard started out as seminaries.

Noah Webster wrote the dictionary with Bible verses explained so children could understand the words of God and know the truth of Jesus Christ. Webster even wrote a translation of the Bible for the American speaking people. The early primers were all Bible inspired. Basically our children learned to first read from the bible.

The New England Primer was the first textbook in America for more than a century. Young men and women in America learned to read and to write and just about everything else from the New England Primer. It was first published in 1690. It was the major textbook for a hundred years.

The first words of the New England Primer. Page one, sentence one: "How glorious is our Heavenly King, who reigns above the sky; How shall a child presume to sing His dreadful majesty?" .

The New England Primer taught children how to read. It taught them moral and ethical values that came directly out of the Bible.

You could hardly find a school in America that wasn't Christian based with the Bible as its main text book until the 1830's. As a result of the attack upon children learning the truths of God and Salvation, the American Sunday School League was formed during that same decade so those children who were deprived could still get Bible knowledge. I believe this was in 1791. I had a bible study tonight with a woman in her early 80's. She said every day they read scripture in schools. Where was separation of church and state then?

the Bible influenced everything in our society. For example, over the years American names have largely been biblical names. You get names like John and Mary and Jeremiah and Abigail and Josiah and Peter and Sarah, Anna and Isaiah, Samuel, Paul and Elizabeth etc.

Think about the towns that Americans lived in. In PA we have such towns as Bethlehem and Nazareth and Emmaus and Bethsaida and Shiloh and Bethel and Eden and Ephrathah and Zionsville and New Jerusalem. All these towns were named Bible names because the settlers that came there were so influenced by the Bible.

In Texas, you can find Palestine. You can find Hebron. You can find Eden, Joshua, Temple, Bishop, Blessing, Corpus Christi. All of these are biblical names in Texas.

Even in California there's Antioch and Carmel and Goshen and Bethel Island and Joshua Tree and Temple City. Again and again and again, the influence of the Bible, even in the way we named the places we lived, is significant in Old America. The Bible was the standard of thinking in Old America. I know there's a Goshen in VA because I know one who lives there.

The Declaration of Independence appeals to God no less than three times. Four to those who can see His Name in the phrase "protection of divine providence". Five to those who can admit the phrase "created equal" means created by God, not evolved from chaos.

The Declaration of Independence is the key document in the founding of the United States of America. That declaration is founded on the Bible. In fact, almost half of the signers of the Declaration of Independence--24 of the 56--were graduates of seminaries or Bible schools or they taught in seminaries or Bible schools. Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, all but two or three of them were Christians, read their Bible every day, and lived their Bible out in the way they lived their lives. One of them founded the American Bible Society.

Thomas Jefferson, one of our least religious founders, may have written the Declaration for his fine writing ability, but he was part of a 5-man committee, and it was heavily influenced by the bible. If God can use a donkey to speak his words, I guess he can use a deist .



Reply #18 Top
97% of the founding fathers were practicing Christians


who did that poll?

187 of the first 200 colleges in America were Christian, Bible teaching institutions


Noah Webster wrote the dictionary with Bible verses


You could hardly find a school in America that wasn't Christian based with the Bible as its main text book until the 1830's


in examples like these, you neglect to recognize the fact that there was very little in the way of anything but the bible being available to many people. it's not like these guys had a choice in many occasions. we had no mass print operations. it's not like they could go to amazon.com and choose from a host of texts. the bible, in many cases , was the most commonly available book. not only because of speed, but because of resources. the bible simply dwarfed every other publication before mass print was available to the masses at a reasonable cost.

up until recently, most leaders discouraged literacy. literacy was a dictator's or monarch's enemy. thus,most states really ever encouraged the art of creative writing for the people. that left only the bible, in most cases as the only source to learn from.

and in aincient jewish times, religious scrolls and scriptures were used to teach...because that's what they had!

if the only thing i had to teach was a comic book, i'd use it. not because i believe every word, because that is what would be available, and one works with what they got.

i have no problem with someone defending religious teaching on it's own merit. but this is just a strawman argument.

Five to those who can admit the phrase "created equal" means created by God, not evolved from chaos.


ummm,,,making a creation vs. evolution argument now?

hint: darwin wasn't even born when the declaration was written

are you suggesting that the founding fathers were prophets of God and received some sort of "divine intervention" that casued them to discount evolution before the theory had even been conceived?

nonsense.





Reply #19 Top
Just some comments Sean to your posting.

First of all we know the Guttenburg Press was invented in the 1400's. The Pilgrims landed over here in the 1600's. Yes, everyone had a bible and it was most likely the only book in the home for some or most. But com'on Harvard and Princeton surely had more books than just the bible available to them.

The Iliad and the Odyssey by Homer were written way before that (8th Century BC) and the Guttenburg Press after printing the bible surely printed that up as well wouldn't you think? Before the press there was block printing so while the availablity of books was not like anything we have now in the least there were books out there.

Thomas Jefferson had a great library of books as did ALL the founding fathers. It wasn't just the bible but yet many of our founding documents were based out of scripture including the Declaration. Noah Webster could have used anything else he wished but instead used bible verses in his instruction as I mentioned. Why didn't he use some of the Greek Philosophies that were so prevalent?

The New England Primer like I said before was what the kids learned from and it came right from scripture and it was published in 1690. So there were books available.

Five to those who can admit the phrase "created equal" means created by God, not evolved from chaos. ummm,,,making a creation vs. evolution argument now? hint: darwin wasn't even born when the declaration was writtenare you suggesting that the founding fathers were prophets of God and received some sort of "divine intervention" that casued them to discount evolution before the theory had even been conceived?


not at all. I was just simply pointing to the fact that our best known and most important document of our History mentions God at least five times if you count the part about us beiing "created." I wasn't pulling Darwin in at all in my statement.

The fact they even used the word "created" tho shows they believed in God's Creative Powers. Again, they didn't seem to have a problem with the separation of church and state fiasco we are so grappling with today.

I do believe God was behind the writing of our founding documents as his HS was leading these men to write down what they did.I do believe that God was the power beneath our wings like I said before. Now, we are so arrogant we believe we don't need him and wish to fly solo.

We are going to fly flat on our face......that's my opinion and I do base it on scripture and history.

The problem today is no one bothers checking into the writings of yesteryear instead relying on history that has been re written so many times we don't know what's what.

George Washington himself wrote 40,000 letters in his lifetime and we have 100 volumes of his thoughts alone. That would be a good place to start. Not with some new modern book called The Godless Civilization with no footnotes or references because "we all know it's truth."

Reply #20 Top
I do believe God was behind the writing of our founding documents as his HS was leading these men to write down what they did.I do believe that God was the power beneath our wings like I said before.


sorry, i can't share that thought. and i find it a little scary to equate our political documents with scripture.

The fact they even used the word "created" tho shows they believed in God's Creative Powers. Again, they didn't seem to have a problem with the separation of church and state fiasco we are so grappling with today.


actually jefferson's orig draft never contained the word "creator" as in "endowed by our creator." i did notice you use the word "created" and give it a very broad definition. you must know that the other words were added post jefferson and were clever enough not to say the wrong word.

as far as church / state goes...they had their controversies too. but keep in mind, that their conflict was a choice between catholisism, protestantism or atheism. the biggest controversy was over the newest emerging church, the unitarians, who don't believe in the trinity of God or the divinity of jesus. many of the founders were congregationalists who joined the unitarians over time. they wanted that freedom to convert built in to their new govt. in advance of their conversions. notice there is nothing about jesus or the holy spirit in any of the founding documents? that's cause the unitarians didn't believe in that, and didn't want it in the documents. and the "deists" like paine and jefferson were considerd radicals. the deists don't believe in the bible's divinity, but thought that there must be "something out there." but again, look at their perspective, no science, no darwin, in a world where the mentally ill were commonly thought to be demonically posessed even by non christians. they had no other explanation...there was no serious study on mental health, not for another 100 years.

but when someone added "endowed by their creator" note the word "their." they weren't talking about other faiths that were non-existant, at least in the colonies, they were talking about their differences pertaining to sects of protestantism primarily and deism. but just because they lived in a smaller world with fewer available choices and much lower understandings of the world, especially the things they couldn't see didn't make that philosophy any different than the application of it today. the actual players might be different, but the principle is identical. government should not be the steward, defender or teacher of religion. and likewise, religion should not try to dictate to govt. and attempt to have govt. mirror any particular faith. it wasn't that the founders disliked christianity, but at the same time, they feared govt. becoming the bully pulpit for their rivals particular sect, where the differences to them can be rhetorically minimized today, were like night and day to them. in other words, the difference between a presbyterian and a unitarian were like the difference between a buhdist and a southern baptist today.

the founders saw that church and state should be seperate, as jefferson noted to the baptists after writing his words that they had effectively created "a wall between church and state" in the new nation. their view was based on a philosophy, which is more applicable today than then because they didn't have such sharp contrasts as we do.

now, if you feel christianity should be our "official" religion of state...feel free to propose the legislation and take it to your representative. i personally don't. if you feel the fact that our founders had much more limited choice than we do is a good reason to "turn the clock back" to the 1950's...again, feel free. i personally feel that despite that limit on their choices, that their philosophy and over-riding principle was the right way to go in keeping our religious institutions and public ones free of the other's influence as much as possible.

one last note...acting like the bible was on some "equal level" with any or even all the other work being published is nonsense. books were considered the property of the elites and the educated. the were expensive to make and the process was slow. there were no book stores like walden's or anything. the bible literally dwarfed every other publication merely because it was the only book that the church wanted any of the non-elite class to read..if they were doing to defy the church and learn to read instead of trusting in their priest for information. in those cases, the church made sure that what you read was their stuff. it was about controlling the masses.

the elites who were weatlthy enough to afford books didn't buy em to share em. again, they were very expensive and exclusive. so, the only book available to most before the invention of MASS PRINTING, not gutenburg's press, was the bible.


Reply #21 Top
Personally, I think it's UN-Patriotic to tie patriotism with religion.